Tweets of the PAX Panel
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I20 in 2011? So odd considering closed beta for it begins next week (?).|
Originally Posted by Psyte
When the devs think its ready, not the players
 "Its fine! Let it go already!" "Gah! You're nowhere near being done!" We're unpossible to please  |
Is i20 supposed to be massive? We've had a lot of light issues lately so that would be a welcome change!
I still can't see how it's not out this year
I've not been involved in this particular little topic, but it definitely has been based on semantics.
As has been said... some people, earlier on (mostly), made some rather negative comments about it, but the people who have been going back and forth really were not.
It is just certain wording that is causing some hangups...
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For the record, I do not believe Kheldarn was one of the people trying to make a big negative point nor doomcrying.
Originally Posted by Kheldarn  My builds take Swift, Health, and Stamina. I use 4 slots on Health and Stamina. With them as Slottable Inherants, I will still be using those 4 slots. That means I'll have 4 less slots to use on Primary, Secondary, Pool, and Ancillary Powers |
However, that quote has started a bunch of the back and forth (By different people coming upon it).
And I think it is because of the precise wording of "That means I'll have 4 less slots to use on Primary, Secondary, Pool, and Ancillary Powers".
While that is somewhat ignoring the previous sentences...
It still speaks to a twisted view of getting 4 free powers. And I think that is pushing people's buttons enough to make them want to correct such a misconception.
I could say...
"I SIX SLOT Brawl and that means I have 6 less slots to use on Primary, Secondary, Pool and Ancillary Powers".
So, Kheldarn's comment is true. What he chooses to do with his slots means that he'll have 4 fewer slots for all those other chosen powers.
It's not really a grand decloration though... because yeah... Any slot you spend, you don't have to spend again
We all understand the less slots per slottable powers that this change will bring, but no one who has stuck around debating this topic has said it is a bad thing that should be altered.
So... Let's party!!
MunkiLord, I sacrificed those bits of I.Q. to hopefully help out!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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You can - for $7:99 |
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
So... Let's party!!
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Hah. You only say that because he never quite dropped the towel.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Apex isn't that huge
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The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
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I was always hoping he would... *wistful sigh*
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Originally Posted by Balanced
Hah. You only say that because he never quite dropped the towel.
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Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Syndicate are cool, but I still think maybe the game needs more care in this matter.|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
I honestly think the Merit Vendors are this way on purpose. That's why they're funny. The Syndicate looks awesome IMO (I love the "Bruce Lee/Kill Bill" track suit some of them wear). The Ghouls are creepy and neat looking. The Destroyers, while the most "plain" are still on par with Scrapyarders and Freaks (and just about as nasty as both of them put together). I think you underestimate how much they care.
For example, did you even notice that almost all of the new foes use existing "player available" costume pieces? Did you realize the NPC contacts actually have appropriate heights now, as opposed to it seeming like the average height in CoH is 6'5" if judged by the contacts Hero/Villain side, even the supposedly normal humans? There's a lot of little things there most people don't even notice... |
I was also hoping Praetoria was free of the old NPC citizen models, but I was wrong.
Just a few examples, Cleopatra in GR or Apex new vanguard makeover...
Ugly designs for my tastes.
Sure they can do it better.
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Citizen models? Seriously?
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Originally Posted by Angelxman81
Syndicate are cool, but I still think maybe the game needs more care in this matter.
I was also hoping Praetoria was free of the old NPC citizen models, but I was wrong. Just a few examples, Cleopatra in GR or Apex new vanguard makeover... Ugly designs for my tastes. Sure they can do it better. |
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It's a sign that GR was well made |
Originally Posted by Jetpack
Citizen models? Seriously?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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First, I will note, this is actually for the third time, I'm not suggesting that this is a bad change. I am arguing something else.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...Thats false on so many levels. Thats assuming that no one else took Stamina on their Brutes/Stalkers... Heck, people still take fitness atm with Willpower and Regen, and I bet a few take it with EA anyway.
The changes just means that EA is doubly good at keeping end. Stamina doesn't magically make all your endurance problems go away. It just means your not absolutely smegging useless past level 20. |
Secondly, with regards to the comment that stamina doesn't make endurance problems go away... And? this doesn't actually support your argument here, in fact it weakens it.
EA DOES make your endurance problems go away. That's WHAT it does. It does it sooner than Ele.
I've leveled a few EA brutes to 50, I'm not sure if you have or not, but I'm just going to say that now, as it stands, even without IOs, an EA brute does NOT require fitness. Never has, even with fighting leaping leadership builds which had 38% + def before there were IOs. Been there. Got the weird looks.
You could take it, and I often did, lets face it, swift and hurdle are pretty good for a brute too... I often took them least for some level ranges or between some respecs. it was a choice, but... You didn't have to. The same will now be true.
Whatever choices EA has without 3 slots spent in fitness, it already had. The same is NOT true of most other secondarys.
I am not claiming that EA is impoverished in an absolute sense. I am claiming it is impoverished in a relative sense. Given that, as far as I know, grav is still the way it was (haven't played it in a year) EA is not the very first set in need of attention, but... EA is hardly the strongest brute set out there, and it just lost a little something that made it special: If you wanted to, you got to pick more powers than everyone else.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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Considering I19 closed beta hasn't been release, its safe to assume that I20 is something big.
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
I20 in 2011? So odd considering closed beta for it begins next week (?).
Is i20 supposed to be massive? We've had a lot of light issues lately so that would be a welcome change! I still can't see how it's not out this year |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
As a change of pace for my posts in the thread, I too think the pic of Ajax looked fugly. I like just about all the player composed screenshots posted here quite a lot more.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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NONE of my characters use Fitness.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
More trivial than taking the same three powers on every character?
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Originally Posted by Castle
Yes, they are enhanceable and you can add up to 5 additional slots to them, just like the current versions. The powers are all available either at level 1 or 2 (I forget at the moment) -- no waiting 'til 20 for Stamina.
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YAY!
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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You are the exception, not the rule.
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
NONE of my characters use Fitness.
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Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Actually it is the games fault. I have an up to date system as well. And my card is a gtx 260, so I failed to see your point. I specifically built this system to compensate for the graphical lag that they refused to fix. Thats why I say moving to another API might have better performance than open gl.
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I too am running a 260, and have most graphics turned up from very high to max with no problems whatsoever (other than an odd flickering in Nova Praetoria). How much memory are you running?
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This is obviously a Nemesis plot to make us all take Fitness.
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
NONE of my characters use Fitness.
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Let's Dance!
i20 Beta will more than likely be on the seperate Beta server that was used for Going Rogue.
i19 will be on the normal beta server.
just my guess.
And to put my 2 cents in.
My MA/SR has two builds, exactly the same. Except for the lack of Fitness on the 2nd build. And can attest that there is a significate difference in how much Stamina is used up just by using SR toggles.
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I hope so. I have a few toons that are already powerful enough that the only real challenge is fighting in missions set to spawn for 8 people. My fire/shield scrapper who solos AVs would love to be forced to team to take down something other than a Giant Monster.|
Originally Posted by cursedsorcerer
You guys don't suspect that we will soon be fighting some really tough enemies soon, do you?
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I was messing with builds,
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
... we consider saying that something gets "tighter" has an inherently negative connotation.
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Originally Posted by Nicetry
They'd need to drastically increase the polygons used on characters. I have no idea, but that might up the min requirements of the game.
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Originally Posted by Robo_Knight
I'd like Custom Emotes and Animations!
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@Johnstone & @Johnstone 2
ediblePoly.com
All my characters
Okay, I'm braving the screech-filled video on Youtube and my ears want to kill me, but apparently they ARE going to be advancing the 'Coming Storm' arc with i19, because Positron did SPECIFICALLY mention that the incarnate intro arc would explain how becoming an iincarnate ties into The Coming Storm.
That is one 'dangling thread' that can be officially considered addressed and is actively being worked on, straight from Posi's mouth.
Also: Absolutely positively confirmed as part of i19 is the Fitnes->Inherent switch. Confirmed for i19 and not later, was originally intended as part of GR LATE in development but squeezing it in in time was deemed impossible so it was shoved back to avoid Feature Creep Delay, AKA: What made Duke Nukem Forever take over 13 years to produce.
Edit: I couldn't finish! That screeching...the horrible nailsonachalkboard screeching! I couldn't listen to it anymore after the official planned discussion ended, so I can't bring anything out of parts 4 and 5 of that video series...
Well, before it was removed from the GR closed beta, the alpha slot was tied to the Menders lore - the contact at Ouroboros who told you about the slot was claled Mender Ramiel, and part of his text hinted at the Coming Storm.
I hope Ramiel shows up again in I19 - he had some rather cool sci-fi shades
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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This has probably been commented on in the ten pages I haven't read, but on certain maps there have been times when I've wanted to go slower (but then most times I will run with sprint on). Cave maps (Cimeroran where I can't see up/down well or purple where I can't see much of anything well), any maps with doors. Can't count how many times I've misjudged doors in the sewers and slammed into the wall (including trying to chase Crimson, which might as well have been an auto-fail on the mish). And of course you have to back all the way up and try again, as the doors are lipped and don't let you strafe.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm not sure why running slightly faster is a problem for you, but assuming it is
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Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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It will def. be kind to ninjitsu users and to SOA's!
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
I know. I'm playing my character's glaring at the Fitness Pool like: "Yooooou.....I haaaate yooooou." Especially on my new Ninjutsu Stalker, I've already started swift, and will have to take Health here shortly. I was like "I am NOT rolling any new characters until this goes live".
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Flawed argument. If I counter with choosing Stealth, Grant Invis and Phase Shift, you now (arguably) have no reason to add more slots.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
No, he's actaully right on this one.
Think about it, at current, say my DP/Psi blaster has all her powers and the fitness trio. That works just fine. Now Fitness is made Inherent powers. So I have the exact same powers, and as you said the three new ones. Say I take boxing, tough and weave. I now need to find the slots to put in tough and weave (boxing I'll leave at one) to make them actually worth having. And thats if I dont want to keep Health and Stamina 3 slotted. So, there will indeed be a slot 'shortage' as it were. It won't affect every AT or every set the same way, but some may find it trickier to balance than others. Still in full support of it, but it may lead to some radical build re-shufflings across the board. Also, come on guys. No feeding the troll |
The argument/statement is that he will have less slots to spend, not a harder time making his decisions. Of course being able to add 3 more powers has the potential to make slotting decisions more difficult.
But if he spends 4 out of his 67 earned slots on powers from the stamina pool now, he has 63 slots to use amongst his Primary, Secondary, Pools and Ancillary/PPPs. And when the Fitness pool becomes an inherent, and he decides to add 4 slots to the same Fitness powers, he still has 63 spots to spend, exactly like before.
P.S. Munki, "tight build" has always had a negative connotation on these boards (e.g. "My build is so tight I have to skip this power"). Thus the change making builds "tighter" will be interpreted as a negative statement. Now, you have been very specific in clarifying that you were talking about the slots to powers ratio, but that's not the argument that was presented by others. Of course, effectively adding 3 (or 4, depending on how you look at it) more powers to every build will naturally lower that ratio, so I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make with that clarification.
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60% of the time it works every time. |
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
90% of the non-dark defenders/corruptors/MMs/Controllers I've played with in the last 6 years have skipped their rez.
And 90% of the time I've died with a Dark on the team? "Sorry just used it on the mobs." |
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
After 41+ pages of discussion, the fact that most of you are obsessing about the Fitness pool becoming inherent more than any other feature announced for I19 at PAX really says something.
I'm not sure what - but it really says something nonetheless... |
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
You might notice I didn't make any claim about its frequency. I stated what it would do to my play experience. |
I gathered. When I talk about a change occurring in the city I'm generally not too worried about the hermit that lives 30km outside of the limits...
Well you either haven't played any other MMO's and/or you haven't actually examined this game very closely. Both of which are fine, but not a great position to be in if you want to counter my statements.
Most MMO's indoctrinate players with the holy trinity. People bring that preconceived notion into every new game they play whether they mean to or not. Additionally healing IS the most effective method of damage mitigation in the early game in CoX. So by the time that buff/debuff becomes so powerful that it greatly overshadows 'heals' you are facing two strong forces that contine to cause people to "look for healers".
It actually already does happen quite often at higher levels (especially on late game TF's) as a direct result of those uber buffs/debuffs that you were just ragging on people looking for healers about. Veng is just another uber buff and it just happens to be one that eclipses most others (actually all other group buffs). It also happens to be one that you don't need to role the die for and get a cold or FF toon on your team. It is available to everyone and it is with a single power essentially as good as the entire FF set.
You were doing better when you were just speaking for yourself. Every power in the game is conditional. It so happens that meeting the conditions of Veng just got a lot easier, which was namely - not having room for an additional power pool, especially going 3 deep into it. Actually employing the power is trivial even in terms of this game.
And that for the record is all I've said.
Again claiming something that I certainly never stated. The only claim with any assertion that I've made is that it will probably make the game a lot more fun for anyone that uses the knowledge to their advantage.Quote:
| PuGs are PuGs are PuGs. The powers and builds that allow people to softcap their teams are common and readily accessible, but people still run around looking for "healers". |
Most MMO's indoctrinate players with the holy trinity. People bring that preconceived notion into every new game they play whether they mean to or not. Additionally healing IS the most effective method of damage mitigation in the early game in CoX. So by the time that buff/debuff becomes so powerful that it greatly overshadows 'heals' you are facing two strong forces that contine to cause people to "look for healers".
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| I think the notion that some vast greater percentage of teams will be running around like demi-gods because of it is silly, because if it were going to happen, it already would happen a lot more today at later levels. |
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| "Typical" players tend to shun most conditional powers, even ones as good as Vengeance. |
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| Will more people pick up Vengeance? Yes, almost certainly. Might that have a network effect and raise the percentage of users even higher? Probably. |
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| Is it going to be a game-balance changing transition? I seriously doubt it. |
I'm not going to counter the rest because it is mostly just you looking at things in a very limited scope, which is fine because IMO and IYO don't need to match.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I've read it and understood it, which is one more hashmark on the achievement board than you've managed.
I eagerly await the inevitable nerf to Vengeance that your tidal wave of new adopters will bring. =) |
You should probably just stick to your market domain. I mean you believe using the market is as easy as clicking a single power while playing and if you believe it enough others might too! I believe in you.
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Originally Posted by stellar
Yannow...its amazing to me that everything we've gotten in the last few issues Jack Emmert said couldnt be or wouldnt be done - must be a stick in his eye that we're still here... :P
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Also, the term has been used very generally so far, which in hindsight I think was a mistake. Whether or not a build gets "tighter" or not is really gonna depend on what somebody's build goals for that specific character are.
Now there were some people crying about this earlier in the thread, no doubt. Perhaps we are all getting lumped together which might be another cause of confusion among us all.
I agree that the slot to power ratio has diminished slightly.
I agree with you that this is not a bad thing.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30