Chase_Arcanum

I don't want to sound mean, but try learning about the industry you're commenting on before making such statements and you'll look a less foolish.

Virtually every traditional MMO in existence aside from a few notables would kill for those charts. "Surge and decline" is about the most common business model that there ever was for MMO's before and after the beast-that-was-wow. Very few MMO's see gradual growth over time. Very few are designed or budgeted with it in mind.

They budget with the knowledge that many people consume games and move on to the next shiny. You need the "surge" at the start to be big enough to pay for the years of development time, then you budget the rest of development based on the expectation of gradual decline accented by occasional releases of new content to briefly bring people back.

Gamers are fickle. There are plenty of options out there. People buy console games that have under 20 hours of playable content and are ready to try something new. Most don't turn a single game into the core of their personal recreation- but they'll come and try for a while. Back when CoH was designed, 3 months was the expected "churn rate" for MMO business models- you've got your average player for 3 months. CoH was notable and recognized by industry insiders for retaining players LONGER than the industry standard-- not by a few days or weeks, but MONTHS.

Many game companies have stopped reporting individual game revenue in their reports specifically to avoid the "lemming approach" where a decline in subscribers leads to more crying doom... or they change what they measure over time to conceal drops. Very few companies have the transparency we've seen here with the info we can draw from the NCSoft reports and part of that is because there's very little to be ashamed over when it comes to CoH.

That chart that you're using as "evidence" of an unhealthy game has been used by people within the industry as the hallmark of a solid performer remaining sustainable and stable much longer than many of its compatriots.

Thanks,

I first tried the game a bit after launch, and the desert zone specifically had this problem. While clearing a path through grondlings solo... moving pretty darn fast overall... I'd often find that the previous mob would respawn right where I was before I even had chipped the next mob down by a third.

I learned that it was much safer-- even for a ranged character-- to enter melee range of the next group of baddies right away. That way, when the respawn happens, you're (hopefully) too far away to aggro them.

Was quite a pet peeve of mine.

Both of those scenarios, though, give openings for a healthy, gradual decline. They assume that a decline was ongoing and progressive, but that naturally means that an ongoing and progressive drawdown of resources invested into the game would have been possible over that same projected time.

Alarmists would cry doom, for sure. The herd-mind is powerful and many will leave for the "bigger" "winning" "neverending" games rather than continue to play something that's eventually going to peter out. Alarmists cried doom when EQ2 was announced, but EQ1 still has servers running. It has been years. Several years passed while the SWG dev team was essentially a skeleton crew allocated part-time at best to the game. Community needs were met and the people still played.

Yes, my preference would be for everyone in Paragon Studios to have stayed together fully employed on my favorite title for their entire career. I'm not advocating layoffs. I'm stressing that shutdown at this point wasn't a sensible option for foresee given the evidence we have, particularly not in this way. Assuming numbers were crunched and rational minds were in charge here, we're missing several key components to understand their rationale.

Thanks. I'm determined to stay here until the end, and Dec is usually a "low online time" for me, but after that I'll do the trial on our lower-end PC (we might be due some cheap Christmas upgrades) and see how well it plays.

Umm... didn't M59 finally shut down?

Granted, your point is correct. Many MANY mmo's do hang on and "sunset" differently. When costs of development or hosting start to exceed the revenue from subscribers, you consolidate resources and reduce the dev team, continuing to remain profitable. You might get down to "the game is run on the server under the basement stairs. The dev team is the intern that sits beside it" and STILL make some trickle of profit while you wait for the last member of the dwindling population to turn out the lights.

Here, we had Paragon Studios effectively sustaining itself. From what we've heard, CoH's revenue was pretty much funding Paragon Studios- so it was not only paying for its own development, but the development of the mystery project. Rather than drawing down, Paragon had 'hiring notices' being put up even in the weeks leading up to the shut-down.

If money had been a factor, NCSoft could have terminated the second project, kept the same people working on CoH as before, and gained revenue. They could have told the development team to wrap up their current project and put things in place for a "diminished release cycle" with fewer people involved. They could have done many things to keep meeting the community's needs while realizing more revenue.

I take it you're referring to section 5:
This really isn't any kind of new development in the MMO world. In fact, as a CoH player, you've already allowed NCSoft the same latitude:

And world of warcraft
and SWTOR
and virtually all others (I didn't find it on SOE's standard EULA while preparing this response, but I just looked for common words- they may conceal it better).

Heck, even console games that are multiplayer check for hacked consoles as part of their agreements. It isn't very easy to escape it if you want to online game.



Essentially, they're installing stuff to look for programs that are actively running when your game runs that they consider hacks/cheats/helpers. The wording in these is unnervingly broad ("IT MAY COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO x ... AS x DEEMS NECESSARY OR PERTINENT") and some alarmists consider this such an "open door" that the devs could take anything they want anytime they want, even going through your music collection & email.

In reality, EULA's are a type of agreement that courts interpret VERY narrowly. In multiple precedents, places where the EULA-preparer overextended their reach have been negated. Most game providers are well aware that they'd quickly find themselves in a bad situation should it be discovered that they took any data that didn't have a clear and concise relevance to their stated goal of detecting unauthorized cheats or bots. They're intentionally ambiguous because they don't want botters/cheaters to know where they're looking and where they promised they won't look, but in action, they're much more restricted.

I'm not saying not to exercise caution in who you trust. Just no sense in pointing out TSW by themselves.

Yeah, my impression was more "Lovecraft" and less "28 days later" - powers beyond even man's ability to comprehend them.

Where other MMOs have lowbies kill rats, this one gives you zombies. Not a bad step-up

I do have to say, I tried the beta and liked what I saw.

I was initially put off by the character creation- the art style and the quality of the pieces, but I think part of that is due to how "close to the real world" this game's setting is. There are no wow-level shoulderpads or capes or such, so it all seems so normal.

The story, though, was quite compelling, and if it wasn't for the fact that it ran rather poorly on the low-end gaming PC, I would have considered picking up. Online games are for the missus and I to play together, so we have to maintain two PC's on a budget, meaning neither is going to be very bleeding-edge. TSW is really worth a look, but not worth the upgrades we'd need to play it together. Perhaps someday that won't be an issue.

DCUO's gameplay did seem somewhat fun, but
1) I didn't find their character creator useful or effective at all.
2) I found their powerset structure too limited-

These two features- features that practically define a character- seemed to work AGAINST my character ideas more than they ever worked for them.

CO's mix-n-match powerset system (gold account only) gave me much more freedom, overall, but I just couldn't get into the world-- surprising since I played so much pen-n-paper Champions. I found that the stories I created for my characters there weren't tied into that universe very much because I found it so unappealing. While the system and character creator worked to help me bring that universe to light, the world worked against me.

Many of the characters initially inspired by CO went on to enter my stable of characters for my own gaming & story universe, but I couldn't bring myself to play them in CO. Virtually nothing I ever managed to wrestle through the character creator in DCUO will ever be used anywhere else in an even remote resemblance.



COH, on the other hand, managed to bring it all together for me. The powersets were sometimes not QUITE what I wanted, but were close enough. The costumes and the world, much the same. The result is that most of my characters are really fleshed out for me-- real characters with real stories closely tied into the world.... with a few creative licenses taken. Strangely, that same success means that none of my CoH characers exist outside CoH. This world is their home, this world made them the heroes they are, and when this world ends, so do their stories. I'll miss them, but if I ever make another character themed like Chase Arcanum in another world, it will be so tied to that world that he would be his own character warranting his own name. It would not be Chase Arcanum

I take this philosophy:

We are fighting for others right now.

A game company has the right to do what NCSoft is doing, but they could have done so many things to divest themselves of City of Heroes in a more community-friendly way.

They chose not to. That is their choice.

They will learn there is a cost to that careless business decision. If we make it costly enough, then, as unlikely as it sounds, they may make more community-centric choices in the future. This will benefit the players that come after us.

Other companies are watching what NCSoft loses (and gains) through this exchange. Their future decisions will take this into consideration. If they see a cost in negative press for terminating a game prematurely, they may let it sunset more gracefully to allow the community to continue to use it. This will benefit the players in games we may someday finding ourselves participating in.

Other players are hearing what is going on. Many of them will think twice before trusting NCSoft with the custodianship of their community. They will benefit from the spotlight we shine on NCSoft's actions.

Keep the pressure on, but keep it clean. Fight the good fight. Too many people expect the stereotypical whiner-geek frothing at the mouth and crying about losing a game. We've deflected that image successfully a few times already, but we have to be mindful that it can always come back.

Be a hero and the rest will come naturally.

Many countries have laws that limit a foreign company's access to the market and even if there aren't such laws, many foreign companies don't have the people with the country-specific-legal or culture-specific marketing knowhow to operate elsewhere. Because of this, 'distribution license agreements' are rather common, and the networks get rather complex. If you study them enough, you can probably associate every asian gaming company with any other one of your choice in fewer steps than you could associate me with Kevin Bacon.

While its simple to think of this as a wider conspiracy, these partnerships & share purchases are legal entities that serve a specific purpose and not much beyond that. Even in their stated purpose they're usually ineffective and minimally executed shells, for that matter.

IIRC, the dev team was planning an "extra life" event themselves this year (Matt's google+ announcement is still available, but the link to his donate page is bad. I'm assuming its been taken down).

I'm not sure what the team's access to the game is or what they're allowed to say, but I know I'd love to see any Paragon Studios alumni participate in some way. Heck, while I know some people are getting a combative "us vs them" attitude against NCSoft, I'd love to see THEM recognize and promote this as well.

NCSoft,

We wanted to let you know that your message has been heard and your concerns have been taken into serious considertion. We appreciate your response and acknowledgement of our emails, notes and packages we've sent in support of the game. Closing Paragon Studios and shutting down City of Heroes should not have been easy. Bad decisions never should be, and this was a monumentally bad decision. Bad for your creative teams, who now operate under the uncertainty of an overseer that doesn't seem rational or consistent. Bad for your shareholders, who have been deprived a positive revenue source, both current and future. Bad for your players, who have entrusted you with the custodianship of the social network. Bad for your reputation, which continues to be tarnished by your demonstrated lack of the consistent and stable behavior a successful service provider must offer. Bad for the individual players who have brought our own creations to life within this online world. You have been given options that would dissolve your relationship with City of Heroes and Paragon Studios in a way that preserves that community, reassembles as much of the development team as possible, leaves our creative contributions intact, and possibly even provides compensation for your shareholders. You have continued to make bad decisions by rejecting those options.

You say your options are exhausted.

We have not exhausted all our options. We will provide opportunities to save yourselves from your own folly. We will celebrate the work of the development studio you so abruptly dissolved. We will demonstrate the value and strength of the community you are working to destroy. Should NCSoft come around and find an amicable resolution, we will recognize the merits of your actions. Should you not, we will warn everyone we know everywhere we go of the hazards of placing any trust in NCSoft, protecting others as best we can. We are heroes. This is what we do.

Man, that one feature would shave so much downtime from my comic-creation... dammit!