Tweets of the PAX Panel
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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.... the last time I said anything like that, I remember being pilloried. |
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
I guess I'll weigh in on the whole fitness thing, too.
I've got almost 5 years of paid time on my account. In that time I have almost never... ever... EVER seen a character that was being played by a knowledgeable person that wasn't using Stamina. Of the ones I did see, they were regens or willpower users or people with really good end recovery powers such as elec armor or kin. |
It greatly amuses me to see people in the game with no Stamina and two ticks of End/toggles dropped. Melee'ers tend to do this, I don't know why. Maybe their best friend is a /kin who just happens not to be present.
I'll even go out on a limb here: I have an Elec/ tank with all his shields three-slotted for Endurance, he can also replenish his Endurance at will.... and yet for all that Endurance is still a big issue for him and I would not strip Fitness off of him at the present time. I doubt I will ever take it off unless the powers become unslottable - in which case they will be gone faster than a certain spotlight-hogging, cocaine-snorting spoiled little heiresses' underwear is on a Saturday night.
I confess I am a little worried that Fitness will be gutted in an attempt to "achieve game balance," but will wait for more info before panic sets in.
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I'm starting to think that as well, but only if 2.0 includes some of the things a sequel would accomplish, like revamped zones, more costume nodes to support some of the things you can do in CO and more, removal of rooting, etc. Starting fresh makes some of that easier, but reusing current assets has advantages too.|
Originally Posted by Emperor_Justin
That's a great article and you have a solid point. Now I'm actually hoping that there will never be a CoH 2, but rather just a CoH 2.0
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GR suggests that there may be more viability to CoH 1 than expected.
I also want to propose a question to anybody who thinks inherent stamina is so important. What 3 powers would you take instead (keep in mind you get no extra slots, just powers) that would make you so uber? It's asinine to say that stamina would make the whole game so much easier. If you want to claim it would lead to a drop in challenge, then you have to back that up by demonstrating that most builds would become dramatically stronger with 3 extra powers. Since those who take stamina skip their 3 most skippable powers, any powers they do add instead will likely be situational at most.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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As long as it's challenging I don't care if the backstory involves Pocket D danceclub fiteklub catgirls invading.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Or it could be us striking first to try and reduce his ability to invade - although completing the new TF could also spawn a Praetorian zone invasion
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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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Or they could finally get rid of that stupid room entirely, as well as other mission maps that serve no purpose but to annoy. Multiple-elevator tech labs come to mind. Or maybe some of the larger mission maps will be shrunk down somewhat.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Or they could just be installing an elevator in the layer cake room
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And maybe they'll finally do something about the lag in Arachnos bases. Maybe? Hopefully? No, probably not. Or finally fix the holes in the smooth caves/Cimerora caves so Stormies can play too? Again probably not.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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The thing you forget is that most builds that have fitness have it with spending very few slots, most of the time only 2 extra slots for stam, and maybe and extra one for health for the two +recovery procs. So even with 3 new powers, on current builds, most people don't have slots to put into the new powers.
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
I'm starting to think that as well, but only if 2.0 includes some of the things a sequel would accomplish, like revamped zones, more costume nodes to support some of the things you can do in CO and more, removal of rooting, etc. Starting fresh makes some of that easier, but reusing current assets has advantages too.
GR suggests that there may be more viability to CoH 1 than expected. I also want to propose a question to anybody who thinks inherent stamina is so important. What 3 powers would you take instead (keep in mind you get no extra slots, just powers) that would make you so uber? It's asinine to say that stamina would make the whole game so much easier. If you want to claim it would lead to a drop in challenge, then you have to back that up by demonstrating that most builds would become dramatically stronger with 3 extra powers. Since those who take stamina skip their 3 most skippable powers, any powers they do add instead will likely be situational at most. |
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Or they could finally get rid of that stupid room entirely, as well as other mission maps that serve no purpose but to annoy. Multiple-elevator tech labs come to mind. Or maybe some of the larger mission maps will be shrunk down somewhat.
And maybe they'll finally do something about the lag in Arachnos bases. Maybe? Hopefully? No, probably not. Or finally fix the holes in the smooth caves/Cimerora caves so Stormies can play too? Again probably not. |
hey if they're going to fix anything first regarding maps it'll be that darn lag on the ITF mission 3! Ran one earlier and it totally spoiled the experience for me from the lag onwards
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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this goes back to a thought I've had for a long while now- that what the game industry perceives as "better" isn't, necessarily. |
Originally Posted by Psyte
COH is making money. COH2 might not, and could harm COH's ability to make money. Worth noting that Asheron's Call 2 failed as well!
In all honesty - even half the money and resources it would take to make a City of Heroes sequel could make City of Heroes a LOT better without splitting the player base, or blocking off players due to higher system requirements, etc. |
For a new game, yeah you need all the bells and whistles and whatnot because everyone else has them.
For an established game there's value in being inclusive- I'm sure we have players here that stick around in part because they can run CoH well enough on their ancient computers. Optional tweaks like Ultra Mode are preferable to a rebuilt, modern graphics engine guaranteed to leave some % of players in the dust.
I can see the corporate incentive to prioritize graphics above all- you can point to it in a meeting, it's quantifiable.
But my favorite counter-example to modern gamethink, CounterStrike, thrived for years (and still does) with a gimp engine and what are by contemporary standards awful graphics (even Source isn't that great). People liked it, they thought it was fun, and they just kept playing it in spite of its increasing technical limitations.
The various upgrades we've gotten over the past couple of years have done a lot to keep the game graphically fresh. I'd much prefer that NC invest resources in a continuation of the current game than on a new project.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Flying Heroes can take it too. It provides a place to put a Kismet Accuracy, and a LOTG Recharge if you have a pure resistance scrapper, and it can also take Winter's Gift Slow|
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I strongly encourage all non flying characters to try this power out. It is quite simply one of my favorite powers in the game for its versatility and almost non existent endurance cost.
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Lisa-Likes Combat Jumping.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
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It's funny that you say that the game is gravitating toward RP, because my dissatisfactions with the game are mainly about moving away from RP and power button-mashing for the hypothetical +8/x16 crowd. I guess (shock!) the game experience is subjective rather than objective.
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
Sorry, "the right" was my mistake :P I just hate how this game is gravitating towards rp (party pack) and catering towards being easy.
I'd love a grav change (non emote), and lolta. |
@Glass Goblin - Writer, brainstormer, storyteller, hero
Though nothing will drive them away
We can beat them, just for one day
We can be heroes, just for one day
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Don't forget these:|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
An important thing to remember with any talk of I20 = CoH2 are these two bits from the PAX panel today:
Old zones may see an update to make them look nicer. They have looked at taking down the paragon war walls but won't happen anytime soon. Both of those things would surely be part of any evolution of the curent game into a "2.0" version? |
Updating old costumes
Looking at animated facial features and fingers
Sounds a lot like a 2.0 upgrade to me. Wasn't there a rumor some time back about a costume creator 2.0?
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One thing it will do is give characters access to more powers before level 30 or so. It will definitely give you access to more powers before 20. I dunno, what with the last few issues adding more 20-30 content and GR being all 1-20 maybe their datamining shows that the majority of players spend most of their time at those levels?|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
I also want to propose a question to anybody who thinks inherent stamina is so important. What 3 powers would you take instead (keep in mind you get no extra slots, just powers) that would make you so uber? It's asinine to say that stamina would make the whole game so much easier. If you want to claim it would lead to a drop in challenge, then you have to back that up by demonstrating that most builds would become dramatically stronger with 3 extra powers. Since those who take stamina skip their 3 most skippable powers, any powers they do add instead will likely be situational at most.
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Of course the fact that after you hit 30 new content tends to dry up and you're playing through a wasteland of old, lame fed-exes to Azuria and Brickstown contacts sending you to Perez or some guy in St. Martial sending you to the far end of Nerva for some arc that frankly isn't compelling enough to be worth the trip has nothing to do with it, oh no, it couldn't possibly.
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Originally Posted by EU_Damz
hey if they're going to fix anything first regarding maps it'll be that darn lag on the ITF mission 3! Ran one earlier and it totally spoiled the experience for me from the lag onwards
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Actually, speaking of ITFs, one of the things that "alarm points," traps, and other security measures could do is make stealthing, and therefore speed-running more difficult. It would also make Stalkers more lol-worthy than ever, but the devs hate them anyway.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
The thing you forget is that most builds that have fitness have it with spending very few slots, most of the time only 2 extra slots for stam, and maybe and extra one for health for the two +recovery procs. So even with 3 new powers, on current builds, most people don't have slots to put into the new powers.
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The following powers off the top of my head you can now pick for great improvements without using any slots on them.
- Any revive power [slot in one recharge and your sorted really]
- Any defense power like superior invis [slot in an end redux or even a +rech global IO]
- Lingering radiation [again 1 recharge will be enough for most PVE]
- Any confuse power [a recharge only need? maybe acc/rech but isnt useless without any extra slots]
- Taunt [people only slot this dont they for bonuses?]
- Recall friend [range only]
- Hasten [1 recharge is enough really]
- Veng [recharge for the bad teams? ]
But i know what you mean, existing powers more than likely wont get much benefit unless people /respec their builds. I too only use one extra slot on stamina/fitness pool though so know what you mean.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Inherent Fitness.
I...don't know how I feel about that. Part of me says yay, part of me is now wary that there's a catch.
I'm certainly not opposed to it, mind you. I've fit it in fine, or gone without fine, depending on the character, but if it's handed to me I ain't gonna turn it down. I'm just naturally skeptical regarding free things.
Incarnate stuff leaves me pretty indifferent, but this other news is interesting.
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Um, i am having an Ultimo_ flashback here. Shields 3-slotted for end reduction, really?|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I'll even go out on a limb here: I have an Elec/ tank with all his shields three-slotted for Endurance, he can also replenish his Endurance at will.... and yet for all that Endurance is still a big issue for him and I would not strip Fitness off of him at the present time.
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i have an Electric Armor brute with the not uncommon Brute playstyle where it's non stop violence to try to keep Fury as high as possible. i do this against even Carnies and when i was still mostly using generic IOs and SOs against said Carnies it had anywhere from zero to one endurance reducers in the armor toggles and never had issues with running low on endurance. Slotting more than one endurance reducer in any non-pool defensive toggle is generally a waste of slots in my opinion. Now i did have Stamina with two slots, but still... three slots devoted to end reduction in the toggles? Really? Is this tanker under level 12?
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I am excited about the fitness inherent IF it is unchanged (in terms of numbers) and if we can still slot it and put sets there. Lots of my characters depend on Health and Stamina for set bonuses.
I am not excited about "more Arachnos in Paragon." Gross. They made a promise in the past that while they may increase difficulty of new content going forward that they would always leave the old enemies at the same power level and in place for the whole experience from 1-50 at normal experience, for those who didnt like the harder content. I hope they remain true to that.
I am definitely excited by the prospect of dropping war walls and customizing pool powers, if that happens. Same for anything for Dark Astoria ... I'd love to do more there.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Well, the Praetorians do have a danceclub catgirl in their ranks, so it's a possibility.
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Originally Posted by Slax
As long as it's challenging I don't care if the backstory involves Pocket D danceclub fiteklub catgirls invading.
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The two examples I gave were actually a reason why I think I20 might not be "CoH 2.0" |
Originally Posted by Knightfox
Don't forget these:
Updating old costumes Looking at animated facial features and fingers Sounds a lot like a 2.0 upgrade to me. |
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| Wasn't there a rumor some time back about a costume creator 2.0? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I am simultaneously excited and terrified. My initial glee was immediately followed up by the following Hypothetical Patch Notes:|
Originally Posted by Primal
Inherent Fitness.
I...don't know how I feel about that. Part of me says yay, part of me is now wary that there's a catch. |
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*All four powers in the fitness pool are inherent for all characters. *Increased endurance cost for all powers. *Increased damage for all enemies. *Reduced run speed for all characters. *Reduced jump height for all characters. |
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Lord Vetinari, Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett.
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I have a feeling that the reason people keep responding to you is the fact that most of your posts on this thread contain some sort of attack for other players (see the highlighted and underlined text above for example). We welcome input, even when we don't agree with it, but no one likes being attacked. The other part is you attack other peoples points of view and don't even bother to at least give a good reasoning why. I don't need numbers but, a well reasoned argument would be nice.|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
I try to stop talking about this, yet you keep pulling me back in. Sorry, I don't like the changes... get over it? Should I have posted a bunch about it?.... no. Should I have woke up drunk and thought this was stupid? Maybe. Stop quoting me, it won't change my mind, and it won't help others think I know what I'm talking about.
Also restraining myself from mentioning your pvp builds. |
As for my personal belief on the "Inherent Fitness" pool? Well, I'm on the fence. I like the idea, but without addition slots I now have three more powers and no extra slots for them. That with my Vet travel at level six means a total of 4 powers with no extra slots. I don't purposely do the whole min/max thing, but now I am being almost forced into it if I want to keep a relevant toon. At the same time, it may actually allow people to diversify the powers they pick for their toons as well.
Then comes the problem of when we will get these Inherent powers? If we get them at the same time that they would normally become unlockable, then that doesn't help my level 15 toon who is gasping for endurance at the end of every fight unless he is heavily slotted for endurance.
It is my supreme hope that they start giving three slots for powers at a lower level when they implement this change. That would make these three (or four for veterans) extra powers much more worthwhile.
Anyways, this is one of the times I will have to wait and see how it goes.
Out of curiosity..
was there anything said about updating ALL the regular hair in this game? I avoid having my male toons with hair, its like a hunk of plastic on their heads. Females, same story, but the Resistance hair is pretty cool
@War-Nugget
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
CoH players are stupid and incompetent compared to WoW players.
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Exactly right. With those three freed up slots I'll take powers that make my characters more versatile. Will Blackstar make my Dark/Dark defender uber, for example? No, it will be very situational. But it will be fun to use it every long now and then.
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
I also want to propose a question to anybody who thinks inherent stamina is so important. What 3 powers would you take instead (keep in mind you get no extra slots, just powers) that would make you so uber? It's asinine to say that stamina would make the whole game so much easier. If you want to claim it would lead to a drop in challenge, then you have to back that up by demonstrating that most builds would become dramatically stronger with 3 extra powers. Since those who take stamina skip their 3 most skippable powers, any powers they do add instead will likely be situational at most.
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Yup.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Um, i am having an Ultimo_ flashback here. Shields 3-slotted for end reduction, really?
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| i have an Electric Armor brute with the not uncommon Brute playstyle where it's [....snip] |
Wouldnt it be easier to just increase the base recovery of all characters and keep the fitness pool as it is but just as a way to take it to an even higher level so it doesnt feel so essential but more of a luxury?
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Praetorian Police Stations? Sign my heroes up.|
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
I'm sure the 'heroes' of Paragon City will be delighted to help bomb some more hospitals and nerve gas a few police stations.
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Better we need to banish a few Nemesis clones/alternate reality versions over there. That will fix 'em.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork