NightshadeLegree

Same. I'm not and never have been an endgame player, and for a time - I19 and I20 in particular - it felt like all Incarnates all the time, to the exclusion of the rest of the game. That said, I always intended to come back, though as it turned out, out of game factors kept me away longer than planned.

The annoying thing is, coming back now and looking at what's been added to the game since Freedom, it feels like the devs have (had?) got to the point where the Incarnate system was fitting in with the rest of the ongoing development rather than overshadowing it. Personally, I'm a lot happier with the direction the game is going in now compared to a year or two ago, or would be if it wasn't for... y'know... the whole shutdown thing.

I've often wondered if people look at F2P models differently depending on whether or not they were subscribed beforehand. I only came to LOTRO after F2P came in so and I've no complaints - though I see a ton of criticism of it from long term players on their forums - whereas as a former subscriber to CoH before F2P I find the CoH model lacking.

Just an idle thought.

True, but as even the most ardent CoH fan will likely admit, the vanilla game is the weakest part of it - a lot of the old zones are still rather clunky, especially blueside, and basically all of what I'd call the 'modernised' parts of the game - Praetoria, SSAs, the alignment system, IOs and Incarnates - are VIP and/or cash shop only.

I was dreading these answers for much the same reason, but having skimmed the document it don't think it really gives anything big away - no pics or detailed info on the Battalion, for example.

They added the Lone Lands to the free zones last year, so you can now level (almost) halfway to cap before being pushed to the shop, and by that time you'll almost certainly have earned enough turbine points in-game to afford the next quest pack.

For me the two biggest mistakes CoH's model made was locking IOs and Incarnates behind the cash shop and/or VIP. Sure, CoH didn't even have IOs until I8, but that was then and this is now. Modern MMO players expect things like loot, a crafting system and an in-game auction house as a core part of the game, not an optional extra.

As for Incarnates - whilst I personally don't care about endgame and never did, many (most?) people do. Again, it's a core part of MMOs - F2P or otherwise.

That's why I describe it as a glorified trial - and bear in mind that's the experience of someone with a couple of years of Paragon Rewards from my previous subscribed time. A brand new player would have had an even more restricted experience.

Ouch.

I'm no finance expert, but that does not look healthy. At all. If that's the best 'boost' they get from launching Guild Wars 2 it's no wonder they're taking drastic action.

God help Carbine. Wildstar's going to be dead before it launches if that trend continues.

I currently have an almost superstitious dread of Posi answering the AMA. Rationally or not it's on my list of bad omens.

(See, someone did read your post.)

Yes, and bumping a Guild Wars 2 thread back to the first page is really going to improve the mood...

People are understandably pissed at NCsoft right now. I don't think anyone can be honestly surprised that this isn't necessarily the most congenial place to discuss another of their games right now.

This.

I think the server hamsters have revolted and seized control of the servers, and are running things themselves now, according to the decrees of the Hamster Revolutionary Committee.

...

Well it makes about as much sense as any other explanation...

The thing is, a downward trend is pretty much the norm for MMOs. Even the mighty WoW has slid from its heyday of 11 to 12 million to around 9 million now. Sure they'll get a spike from Mists, but that will not reverse the longterm trend. No game does - except EVE perhaps.

It seems likely that NCsoft were banking on a DDO/LOTRO style boost in profits when F2P came in, but DDO and LOTRO benefitted the most from that because they were essentially the first AAAs to make the transition and there was less competition when they did it - it doesn't stand to reason that every game that followed in their footsteps would do the same, and it's worryingly short sighted of the industry if they think otherwise - in much the same way that EA/BW deluded themselves into thinking their Star Wars WoW clone would generate WoW style profits.

As with most MMOs, CoH's figures were in decline, but comparitively slowly. In 2009 revenue was just under 3m per quarter, in 2012 it's just under 2.5m. Given the utterly disastrous under performance we've seen in other MMOs in that period - like APB, SWTOR, TSW - that's not bad going.

That's what surprises me, indeed I think that's what surprises almost everyone. CoH wa doing pretty well considering its age, and had they cut costs that were not directly contributing to CoH itself (start with the 'secret project') I see no reason why they couldn't have maintained a relatively steady income for a long time to come.

Of course it's also likely that NCsoft didn't want a steady income, and so will throw the money they 'save' by killing PS into other avenues that they think will give a better return.

MA didn't break the game. The players broke the game. They were given the keys to the candy store - or more precisely the candy factory - and instead of discovering and sharing new and exciting flavours they sat down and gorged themselves on the raw ingredients, then complained to the devs when it made them sick.

Interesting choice of words.

Of course Nov 30th has never been officially confirmed - IGN just said that NCsoft told them they were 'aiming at' that date, so who knows. That said, the way NC are acting there's no apparent reason for them to keep the game 'alive' longer than they need to.

Still, it's interesting. I wonder what the 'something special' is. Beta access to Blade and Soul? That'd be funny, in an awful kind of way.

I agree that this is very unlikely to have a direct financial impact, but I do think it could harm long term customer confidence in NCsoft. CoH is the highest profile, longest running MMO to be shut down* and this has been a very sharp reminder of NCsoft's unfortunate reputation as an MMO killer.

Guild Wars 2 is strong enough to survive, no question, but I can see this hurting Wildstar and possibly the western release of B&S, if either of those games underperform at launch - particularly Wildstar.

*with the possible exception of SWG, but that decision appears to have been driven by Lucasarts rather than SOE, and in any case that game had a cloud hanging over it for years.

I don't disagree insofar, as any negotiations are concerned, that we can't and shouldn't expect to hear anything until it's done. I am surprised that they've made no attempt to control the story, letting speculation and theorising run rampant on any site that's given coverage to the Save CoH campaign.

To put it a different way, it's two weeks and counting since the announcement, and noone knows for sure why they dropped the game beyond the vaguest of statements. Even the shutdown date of November 30th we're all taking as definite was mentioned solely in a follow up statement reported second hand by IGN.

That's what I find worrying, or perhaps disconcerting would be a better way to put it.

Y'know, I am astonished that it took two weeks for that speech to show up in these forums.

Great piece of writing though. Would make me proud to be an American (if I wasn't a brit.)

Since you edited it out (I'm all in favour of selective quoting, but c'mon, it was the next line) I'll say it again...

"If there is any deal in the offing, however unlikely, then it's not going to be sunk because Mr Kim receives a few emails from angry and upset players."

Or from trolls.

Will it do any good? I dunno. It literally can't make things any worse. If there's a deal on the table that we don't know about it will not be taken off the table by angry words from unhappy players. That would be an insane way to run a business. Any business. Anywhere.

Besides, good manners is not a one way street. I wouldn't feel bad about upsetting NCsoft when they've given no indication that they feel bad about upsetting us.

I'm looking at this as two separate issues - connected, but separate nonetheless.

The first issue is the selling of the game and IP. IF there's anything going on regarding that I don't expect to hear anything about that until it's a done deal. It would be nice if we got some indication of course, but I'm not expecting it - though I think it'd be good business as well, at least for a prospective investor/buyer, given that the wider community will slowly bleed out over the next three months, and once people are entirely resigned to the loss of the game it'll be that much harder to win them back.

(Not everyone - there are people here who will be here until the bitter end and beyond, but the wider playerbase is already looking elsewhere. In terms of player retention, the game is losing value every day that passes.)

That aside, the second issue is what I was referring to in this thread - that is NCsoft's handling of this. Indifference is the best word I can use to describe it. They're dropping an 8+ year title as casually as they'd shelve an unannounced pre-alpha project, and that is no way to treat your customers.

Not really.

If there is any deal in the offing, however unlikely, then it's not going to be sunk because Mr Kim receives a few emails from angry and upset players. Regardless, I'm starting to feel that that's not the issue.

For the most part the CoH community has been walking on eggshells to avoid 'offending' NCsoft. That's laudable, but they have done nothing whatsoever to earn that. From a customer service point of view NCsoft's response, or lack thereof, is nothing short of disgraceful.

'Cultural differences' be damned. They do business in the west and it's absurd to think that they don't know how their silence is being viewed. That they don't care - that I can believe, though it says awful things about how they do business. Some languages are universal, and right now NCsoft are speaking fluently in the language of 'we don't give a damn about our customers.'

Not what's being asked for, and you know it.

NCsoft's ongoing silence is worrying. The SaveCoH campaign has gathered more and wider media coverage than the game itself has had in years and it's disconcerting that we aren't hearing anything at all from NCsoft.

They could easily sit back and just let the clock run out, and it's looking increasingly likely that they will. I'm already seeing tensions rising in the forums and it's going to be hard enough to keep everyone together, to keep morale up and keep the momentum going as it is - with nothing from NCsoft it could be impossible.