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So bottom line you didn't get what you want so they didn't do it the right way. |
Originally Posted by Sunpulse
With Praetoria being only for NEW created characters and even then only from lvls 1-20, a big chunk of the expectation was cut out of the game for me.
On top of that Incarnate system being delayed and failing to see any other kind of end game system. The ONLY thing for a lvl 50 to do is change their alignment and do Cathedral of Pain (at least as far as I know, because if there is more it's not readily apparent). So after moving my Dom and MM to hero side.. it's like ok what to do now? Same stupid stuff I been doing for a while already. Going Rogue was not the overhaul thing game needed. And right now all that hype seemed just that, hype. Waiting for the first issue after an expac's release is not the way to go about doing things. Not only that but no archs were touched... no new pool powers, or travel powers. Couple added main power sets. Of which Demon Summoning is interesting (but been playing that for months now) and Elec control looks interesting, but since controllers/doms are my fav arch I've played all the ones I care to. No urge to level an elec/ I doubt the explosion of population will last that long. Many people have come to the same conclusion as I have already. Only the die hard CoX fans are ecstatic about it all. |
That about right?
I have to agree with the OP, as cool as the praetoria stuff is the whole expansion is underwhelming. All the praetoria content doesn't work with Ouroboros, so those that only play their 50s feel like they paid for half or less of a game. CoV was a better expansion, since it had twice as much content and 5 new ATs (not just 4 powersets). GR feels like something they released 6 months too early.
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CoV was a stand-alone game - that's why it had to have enough things like new ATs and power sets to make it work - GR is an expansion to be plugged into the existing game, so it doens't need the same amount of stuff as CoV needed - which is why it's cheaper than CoV too |
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I have to agree with the OP, as cool as the praetoria stuff is the whole expansion is underwhelming. All the praetoria content doesn't work with Ouroboros, so those that only play their 50s feel like they paid for half or less of a game. CoV was a better expansion, since it had twice as much content and 5 new ATs (not just 4 powersets). GR feels like something they released 6 months too early.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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City of Villains was a stand-alone, not an expansion.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I have to agree with the OP, as cool as the praetoria stuff is the whole expansion is underwhelming. All the praetoria content doesn't work with Ouroboros, so those that only play their 50s feel like they paid for half or less of a game. CoV was a better expansion, since it had twice as much content and 5 new ATs (not just 4 powersets). GR feels like something they released 6 months too early.
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Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
Been in the game since the end of Beta in '04, maintained 2 accounts for the past 5 years etc...here is what I'm disappointed with:
While I understand that we were told "way back when" that Praetoria would be a 1 - 20 zone, I'm a little disappointed there isn't more. You can work your way up to 20 in 2 or 3 gaming sessions and then... Side switching is great, but I don't see it as opening any new content. I've run everything on both sides over and over with tons of alts and doing it on opposite sides with newly switched characters is...meh I am disappointed that an entirely new expansion didn't include MUCH needed end-game content, more new enemies for both sides, more new powers, and more enhancements etc. The expansion just doesn't feel significant. It feels like an issue update really. CoV felt like an expansion. Maybe it's game fatigue...I've taken breaks from the game here and there, but I am a pretty disappointed customer. I've loved this game, defended Dev moves, altered my characters with nerfs and buffs over and over again...but I'm sitting here with servers full of 50s and well, I've kinda hit the wall that I was hoping GR would break down. It hasn't. |
This. I'm disappointed.
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I dont know if it changed, I know late in beta (almost two weeks from launch) I noted my concern on this to a community manager.|
Originally Posted by Sunpulse
1. I didn't do herocon or read up on it. They never mentioned it on the GR site or in any noticeable way were anyone who decided to read up on it, would be like oh.. only 1-20 huh.
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I searched up and down through the entire website, and the only place where I could find a reference to the level range of Pretoria was in the Dev Vid 2. The other reference I found I had to hunt in youtube for a Q&A. Both of these were passing through comments. I watched each Dev Vid 3 times to make sure I didnt miss anything (after realizing the second time I saw Vid 2 that there was one passing mention.)
It didn't help that every time Pretoria was mentioned in the site it came in two bullet points:
- Brand new starting experience
- Explore the Universe of Pretoria
Now, I wont bash the expansion simply because it obviously is liked by a lot of people. That's good. However, I don't think the people that express their discontent deserve bashing either, at least not unless they start bashing and crying DOOOM, anyone that cries doom is too short-sighted.
On a side note, many ask this:
Why do you want more endgame content?
It depends on the player, to be honest, but from what i have observed in many games, many players need a subconcious motivation of progress to really feel a pull towards playing. I should have a conversation with a psychologist friend of mine on this topic because I bet there got to be some real life parallels to it.
If they feel they are just playing for the sake of playing, they quickly loose motivation. They end up starting over or quitting. It's a good thing this game has a lot of replay value that it accommodates nicely leveling alts.
The progress does not have to mean much. It's just like XBox Live gamer score. You can see people grinding the heck out of games just to get a higher score and often keep playing a game until they get all the achievements the game has to offer, not for the sake of achievement but for the sake of the points.
Anyways, sure, these players can just progress on alts, but there is also an attachment to your "main". I think everyone has one "main", that character that they feel truly consider their in game persona. For these players it can be a bit frustrating that they can not advance THAT character.
Many of these players subconscious would be perfectly happy if you somehow made a game without levelcaps. That has it's own inherent set of issues, though.
As for me? Call me crazy, but I don't want endgame. I wanted more dev-designed content to take my characters from 1-50 through new zones in a world where not everything is about being good or evil. There is where my disappointment stands.
I think people sort of expect reaching the level cap to open up whole new categories of content, because that's what other games have sometimes done to provide a reason to keep playing. CoH has been much more focused on alts, in general, and I think that provides a very different approach to play; instead of focusing on what you do with your "main" at level 50 to make yourself tougher and cooler than other peoples' "new" level 50s, they focus on all the different ways you can make 50 and have fun hanging out with people.
Overall this suits me better.
Ugh, great, another one of these. A new expansion marketed to new players creating new accounts and being brand new to the experience contains low-level content. I am shocked an amazed.
Or to put it another way: An expansion that doesn't contain a level cap increase and more end game content, because clearly that's what it's all about and replayability can go to hell. Good. I'm sick and tired of the way MMOs handle themselves. I'd much rather take Praetoria over more end game raids. I ain't done the ones we have now, and I don't plan to.
And, yeah, it's 5 AM and my humour levels are rock bottom. I deal with it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It wasn't a stand-alone game. It was marketed as an expansion and by all MMO standards was an expansion since it was still using the same system CoH was. If CoV had absolutely nothing linked system wise to CoH then it would be consider a stand-alone game.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
CoV was a stand-alone game - that's why it had to have enough things like new ATs and power sets to make it work - GR is an expansion to be plugged into the existing game, so it doens't need the same amount of stuff as CoV needed - which is why it's cheaper than CoV too
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Maybe you don't play other MMOs but this is a piss poor quality retail expansion in relation to the rest of the MMO genre.
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I don't see how. I get a medium-sized area of new content, a bunch more content scattered all over, new gameplay mechanics, and so on. And keep in mind, if I buy this one "expansion", I get the whole game -- CoH, CoV, and GR.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Maybe you don't play other MMOs but this is a piss poor quality retail expansion in relation to the rest of the MMO genre.
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Not, it wasn't. It was marketed as a standalone game that existing City of Heroes players didn't have to pay a second subscription for. This was true from everything Positron ever said, and if you check out the PlayNC store now (or whenever it comes back online), you'll see that City of Villains is still being sold separately as a standalone which does not require City of Heroes. The mere fact that we had A TON of CoV-only players speaks for itself.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
It wasn't a stand-alone game. It was marketed as an expansion...
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I don't know what your definition of "piss-poor" is, but it's obvious you've been playing other MMOs a little too much, whereas a lot of us are here because we don't WANT those other MMOs. I could have been playing World of Warcraft or Lineage II or Champions Online, if it weren't for the fact that these games AND their expansions suck. I have even now put more hours IN JUST GOING ROGUE than I have put in almost any other MMO I've played. That ought to tell you something.
I'm glad it doesn't have end game, myself.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Sideswitching is new content, about 150ish missions. Enough so that you can go from hero to villain and back again every 10 levels (starting at level 20) without repeating a single mission. |
Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
Side switching is great, but I don't see it as opening any new content. I've run everything on both sides over and over with tons of alts and doing it on opposite sides with newly switched characters is...meh
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Now it may be you don't like the content, which is fine, thats your opinion. But you can't say it is not there.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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I'll disagree with that. Let's see.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Maybe you don't play other MMOs but this is a piss poor quality retail expansion in relation to the rest of the MMO genre.
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I paid $30 each for the complete collection. (thanks for the $10 savings Best Buy!)
4 new powersets.
Some new costumes (Clockwork is amazing).
Some things I do think are useless, like Shadowy presence.
A full new 1-20 experience (very nice due to the new powersets).
New content for all levels (I've been pretty impressed with the quality of the Tip missions).
Haven't even looked at the two new high level Praetorian arcs that Pos did (I've heard that while some don't like the storylines, there are some new neat stuff in them.)
As I would have paid $15 for the month of play anyway, I got all of this for $15. Yeah, some of it I would have got for free. So? The quality of the missions is high, and that is what I've been begging for for years.
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Originally Posted by Sunpulse
I'm hardly the only one thinking this.
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No ur not..and ur also not the only one who hasnt read any of the forums. otherwise you would know excatly what GR is about..and that includes info from events videos etc..when i heard GR was coming out i was like awesome..but will they release all 1-50 or do what they did with CoH and CoV and release basic levels first....then i kept up with the posts etc and found out...YES!
i was right..basic lvls first with more to come later on- which was the best move imo.Not saying you knew nothing about GR btw just saying info was out there...and its not my fault the hype of GR was over the top...but cleary understandable....just give it time.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
It wasn't a stand-alone game. It was marketed as an expansion and by all MMO standards was an expansion since it was still using the same system CoH was. If CoV had absolutely nothing linked system wise to CoH then it would be consider a stand-alone game.
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It wasn't until July 16, 2008, NCsoft merged the two games' content together; thus a player who only owned City of Heroes could now play City of Villains, and vice versa. Prior to this, a purchase was required to access either game's content.
Prior to that, on September 29, 2006 NCSoft did offered to sell both complete games together in one package when they released Good Vs Evil. Customers had the option of buying either game separately or getting both games in one box for one low price.
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Whether you like it or not it was designed as an expansion from the get go, since it was built on top of CoH's foundation. CoV was not built from the ground up like CoH was, it was additional content of the same game. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Not, it wasn't. It was marketed as a standalone game that existing City of Heroes players didn't have to pay a second subscription for. This was true from everything Positron ever said, and if you check out the PlayNC store now (or whenever it comes back online), you'll see that City of Villains is still being sold separately as a standalone which does not require City of Heroes. The mere fact that we had A TON of CoV-only players speaks for itself.
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I don't know what your definition of "piss-poor" is, but it's obvious you've been playing other MMOs a little too much, whereas a lot of us are here because we don't WANT those other MMOs. I could have been playing World of Warcraft or Lineage II or Champions Online, if it weren't for the fact that these games AND their expansions suck. I have even now put more hours IN JUST GOING ROGUE than I have put in almost any other MMO I've played. That ought to tell you something. I'm glad it doesn't have end game, myself. |
Keep deluding that CoV was made from scratch, it wasn't. Everquest and Everquest 2 are standalone games, CoV was an expansion onto a pre-existing game. It is absolutely irrelevant to the design and development that you could buy CoV or CoH without having to buy the other, since they used the same gameplay mechanics, same servers, same graphical interface, and you installed all the content regardless of what was unlocked on your account. It's completely fair to compare GR's quality at retail release to that of CoV's quality at retail release.
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You seem to be totally unaware of the different purposes of CoV and GR.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Keep deluding that CoV was made from scratch, it wasn't. Everquest and Everquest 2 are standalone games, CoV was an expansion onto a pre-existing game. It is absolutely irrelevant to the design and development that you could buy CoV or CoH without having to buy the other, since they used the same gameplay mechanics, same servers, same graphical interface, and you installed all the content regardless of what was unlocked on your account. It's completely fair to compare GR's quality at retail release to that of CoV's quality at retail release.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I must have been unlucky in beta. I repeated quite a few missions in only one swap from hero to vigilante. Think at least 3 of the 10 missions I did were repeats.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Sideswitching is new content, about 150ish missions. Enough so that you can go from hero to villain and back again every 10 levels (starting at level 20) without repeating a single mission.
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City of Villains price at launch: $60*
Going Rogue price at launch: $30
Going Rogue should have as much content as CoV for half the price? No.
* this is what I paid in Vancouver. All new *full* (re: not expansion) PC games were generally going for $60 back in 2005.
I got what I paid for. Enough content and systems to warrant a $30 purchase. Cheers. 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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I love posts like this. The subject matter isn't even important.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Whether you like it or not it was designed as an expansion from the get go, since it was built on top of CoH's foundation.
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"Whether you like it or not, the fact is that I'm right and you're wrong. My facts are irrefutable."
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Server population is back up. Seems everyone changed their mind by the weekend, which is a good coincidence, too, as that's when most have their free time.
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Originally Posted by Sunpulse
I'm hardly the only one thinking this. The rise and fall of server population can show some indication.
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This game hasn't had any attention paid to content below 20 until the Posi TF got redone and the Hollows got its revamp, and that was just recently. It's way more overdue than worrying about end game content, if you had to choose between the two.
What we're seeing isn't exactly a "choice to do one or the other" either. Posi and his team were working on the Incarnate system, and it wasn't ready for prime time. If it had been, we'd see content for low and high levels. What we got now wasn't their original plan.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.