Failing to be impressed

Forbin_Project · 08-22-2010 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

Can't even count CoP as part of GR, since it was developed for CoV and got shelved for years because of major exploit bug they couldn't fix.

The CoP wasn't a part of GR. It was reintroduced as a part of Issue 18: Shades of Gray.

Creole Ned · 08-22-2010 08:21 PM

Regarding staffing levels of CoV vs. GR, I suspect that a number of people at Paragon were not working on GR but rather Paragon's next (and currently unannounced) project.

Is there a manual at all in the boxed version of GR? It would be interesting to compare the credits vs. CoH or CoV.

UnSub · 08-22-2010 08:42 PM

Having betaed GoRo, I also found that I wasn't impressed with what it offered. Although some players like to point that GoRo was an expansion, not a CoV-style release, the issue here is that CoV is the most comparable issue to GoRo in that you have to pay to unlock all of it. As such, looking at GoRo I couldn't see $30 worth of value. The problem is that Paragon Studios aimed too low with GoRo, only releasing new content for lvls 1 - 20 (plus CoP plus tip / morality missions). As such, Praetoria feels like an incomplete world - for both CoH and CoV, the launch was lvls 1 - 40, with Praetoria being half that.

Lvls 1 - 20, of course, are the quickest to get through, so Praetoria feels even smaller. It contains some of the better in-game narratives, certainly, but it will face similar issues to CoV's fixed stories - your character is set on a semi-fixed path (although there is some player freedom to choose the journey) that can see players feel locked-in.

Side switching is nice, but really feels too late (to me). I've got a hero to lvl 50, a villain to lvl 50 and feel I've seen both sides adequately. No, I haven't done every single mission and contact in every area, but I've travelled enough ground to feel that I've seen all I want to see.

Although you might argue (and some have) that my expectations for GoRo should be lower than for CoV because it costs less to buy, it misses the point that Paragon Studios / NCsoft have trumpeted the reinvestment they've made back into CoH/V, that they've got a bigger studio than ever, that things are better than ever, etc. From that perspective, I'd looked to GoRo as a key example of what the future holds for CoH/V. I would have had no problem in paying $50 or more for GoRo if it had offered a fuller Praetorian experience.

I'm also not in the mood to wait for I19, especially since the Incarnate content appears destined to be delivered in parts to the player base so that lvl 50s don't hit that Incarnate 10 point too quickly (which is a wise development strategy, but doesn't thrill me as a paying player). This makes the next question, "when is I19 coming out?" which at this stage of the year will either be November-ish (compete with DCUO, something just before the Xmas event) or next year... and even then what Issue 19 will contain isn't guaranteed. After all, if I have to pay $30 to get access to lvls 1 - 20 within Praetoria, it isn't a long bow to draw that lvls 21 - 40 / 50 are also going to come with a price tag.

Also to add to the OP's points: I've spoken to several long-term CoH/V players and they've all expressed similar opinions about GoRo. Your mileage may vary.

Finally, I've defended Paragon Studio's marketing department in the past but I have to make the comment that the GoRo website was incredibly ordinary. The information is contains (outside of the bios) is very generic and only provides a cursory insight into what the expansion contains.

Take powers: some flavour text and then the names of the powers within the set, but no detail on what those powers do. Two powersets have no videos to show them off. The site itself uses space very badly - huge amounts of space are wasted on the GoRo logo on every page and it is very easy to miss the media sections for powers unless you typically scroll all the way down on a page. The use of videos to promote GoRo was a good step forward, but the actual site itself leaves a lot to be desired.

Creole Ned · 08-22-2010 08:52 PM

Just out of curiosity, what was the highest level you got a character to in Praetoria, UnSub?

Starsman · 08-22-2010 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

I'm not even going to give NCSoft execs enough credit to have come to that conclusion, that's how low of my opinion of them after seeing what they've done to their past properties.

Even in my most negative day I can't see the company so negatively. Topic for a different thread but the issues with Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa were all caused by the respective game's studios and designers.

There is a funny irony here is that you were one of the forum names that popped in my head when I tried to think of people that would be unhappy with limited content tied up to Pretoria. No clue why, since I don't know your posting pattern much, other than your art collector nature.

Never expected the extreme NCSoft bashing though, but I can easily tie that to frustration.

Starsmangames.com

Peacemoon · 08-23-2010 05:31 AM

Now that the expansion has been out for a week and having played through a lot of the Praetoria content, I think it is really lacking a 20-30 zone. Don't get me wrong, I have been truly in love with Praetoria every since I made my first character there. Everything about it is awesome, the zones, the missions, the story and the new enemy groups. I can't rate it enough. But 20-30 is quite a lengthy time for a character, and having a 20-30 or even 20-25 zone would have doubled the length of time people spent in Prae and really cemented it nicely in my opinion. Of course, it would have needed as much mission content as Imperial City and Neutropolis put together, but I think it would have been worth it.

The ending arc felt a little rushed to me, as if it was trying to squeeze in before people got too high. That is my only criticism. Plus, I kind of missed having to travel for missions, as strange as it sounds. The occasional mission which sends you back to Nova or IC would have been nice and would have made it feel much more interconnected. It was a shame to have no reason to return more often to Nova. Anyway that is my only minor criticism.

Then again, if Praetoria did content up to 30, a lot of Paragon City would be empty!

Turbo_Ski · 08-23-2010 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peacemoon

Then again, if Praetoria did content up to 30, a lot of Paragon City would be empty!

Actually it's pretty jarring to go from Praetoria to any part of Primal Earth.

Thirty-Seven · 08-23-2010 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidX

The "Endgame" does not refer to "finishing" the game. The idea behind the "Endgame" in MMO's is that people want a way to continue to play the characters they put their (figurative) Blood, Sweat, and Tears (Or, in some peoples cases, phat stacks of paper) into. The "endgame" can consist of high level raids or other activities that can give the player a way to feel like they are making some kind of progress, even when they are no longer gaining levels and have exhausted the "normal" content.

This mindset also comes from games like other mmos, which don't really "begin" until you hit Max Level and start doing raids and other "endgame" content.

I guess I still don't get it. For me, "endgame" is what I do when a character hits 50: focus on a different character. It just doesn't makes sense to me to continue playing a character that has no powers to gain, no levels to earn and having a good deal of the content you wanted to do... done. Granted, I have gone back to two of my 50s quite a bit: to gather badges, but that means I pull them out for a few weeks after each issue and get the badges I can, and then shuffle off to my other characters. I mean, I do have 20-some characters that I am actively rotating among. What is this "I still want to play my 50, so I demand more things to do with a character that is otherwise done" stuff?

Samuel_Tow · 08-23-2010 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven

I guess I still don't get it. For me, "endgame" is what I do when a character hits 50: focus on a different character. It just doesn't makes sense to me to continue playing a character that has no powers to gain, no levels to earn and having a good deal of the content you wanted to do... done. Granted, I have gone back to two of my 50s quite a bit: to gather badges, but that means I pull them out for a few weeks after each issue and get the badges I can, and then shuffle off to my other characters. I mean, I do have 20-some characters that I am actively rotating among. What is this "I still want to play my 50, so I demand more things to do with a character that is otherwise done" stuff?

To be honest, one thing most MMOs miss, I believe, is a feeling of closure. While endless progression has its merit, I still firmly believe that all good things MUST come to an end, because the longer you drag a good thing past its prime, the less good it becomes. I enjoy that, in City of Heroes, I can hit level 50 and feel like I'm DONE. That doesn't mean I'll never play the character again, but it means my character is now complete and I can finally use all that power that I've been accumulating over the character's life span without feeling like I could be adding something more.

In some way, the Incarnate system will ruin this completely, but in another way, that too has an end at some point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

SwellGuy · 08-23-2010 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

To be honest, one thing most MMOs miss, I believe, is a feeling of closure. While endless progression has its merit, I still firmly believe that all good things MUST come to an end, because the longer you drag a good thing past its prime, the less good it becomes. I enjoy that, in City of Heroes, I can hit level 50 and feel like I'm DONE. That doesn't mean I'll never play the character again, but it means my character is now complete and I can finally use all that power that I've been accumulating over the character's life span without feeling like I could be adding something more.

In some way, the Incarnate system will ruin this completely, but in another way, that too has an end at some point.

I agree but I also think that is why Positron and his end game team are focused on the content aspect of becoming/being incarnate and he wanted to pull the abilities because it was just a power grind without a real story behind it.

I hate waiting but I hope they will make me glad I had to wait a little bit longer for it.

total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

Slashman · 08-23-2010 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

To be honest, one thing most MMOs miss, I believe, is a feeling of closure. While endless progression has its merit, I still firmly believe that all good things MUST come to an end, because the longer you drag a good thing past its prime, the less good it becomes. I enjoy that, in City of Heroes, I can hit level 50 and feel like I'm DONE. That doesn't mean I'll never play the character again, but it means my character is now complete and I can finally use all that power that I've been accumulating over the character's life span without feeling like I could be adding something more.

In some way, the Incarnate system will ruin this completely, but in another way, that too has an end at some point.

I have to agree here.

I'll expand on this from my POV to say that maybe it's because I play such a wide variety of games from other genres, but I find myself more invested in the game experience than in my character exclusively. A lot of MMOs are not about crafting a compelling experience, they are instead about making you attached to one character and then adding more levels and things to do for the character in an infinite loop. You churn your way to max level and then wait for the 'fun' to start.

If any other game but an MMO were built this way, it would fail. It's precisely because COX does not work this way, that makes it such a gem to me. Despite all the talk of being useless until you get stamina and all the other cliche things you hear on the boards, the game gives a compelling experience from the get go in comparison to other MMOs. With GR, they have upped that to a whole other level.

I can enjoy the setting, story and immersion of an interesting new world, while still getting my fill of all the other stuff that I'm used to in COX. In that sense, it doesn't matter if I'm playing a max level character, the fun wouldn't be that much more enhanced if I were.

Now I understand that different aspects of a game appeal more strongly to different people, but there are so many MMOs out there that all offer the same thing, I don't think COX needs to follow them to the letter when it has demonstrated that it doesn't need to in order to be a great game.

If most people that play the game tend to fall into the altaholic category, then looking to expand that aspect first and foremost seems to be the smart thing to do, and then build from there.

Ashen_EU · 08-23-2010 08:18 AM

I love the idea of end-game content. I mean, I really would love having enough new content to keep me interested at max levels. But for people like me that like story and such? It will never really happen.

Unfortunately the only game people seem to think has end-game is WoW. The endgame content consisting of either the military grade organisation of Dungeon runs, orchestrated by archaically minded players who I have heard dictate precise builds required for each class in the raid. (If I wanted to get yelled at by a rude, arrogant, self obsessed person purported to be my superior I would have joined the army)

And the other option? PvP, which is so polarising I'll leave it alone.

Friends are just enemies that haven't betrayed you yet.

HPorch0 · 08-23-2010 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashen_EU

I love the idea of end-game content. I mean, I really would love having enough new content to keep me interested at max levels. But for people like me that like story and such? It will never really happen.

Unfortunately the only game people seem to think has end-game is WoW. The endgame content consisting of either the military grade organisation of Dungeon runs, orchestrated by archaically minded players who I have heard dictate precise builds required for each class in the raid. (If I wanted to get yelled at by a rude, arrogant, self obsessed person purported to be my superior I would have joined the army)

And the other option? PvP, which is so polarising I'll leave it alone.

I completely agree with you about the rude behavior during a raid, but it's because if you come to a raid you are expected to come prepared (awake, with the correct pots or inspirations, in the right build... meaning not in pvp spec, and with the right gear). A lot of the time the success or failure of a raid can depend on one person. One person can ruin it for everyone. This does create a high stress environment and it is not for everyone, but there has only been 3-4 times in all of CoH that I felt the same satisfaction as I have when beating a boss in WoW that I'd never beaten before. The Respec when it first came out was ridiculously hard, but I beat it. The Hamidon encounter in Issue 2, we beat with my SG of 29 people... very satisfactory. The first time I beat the sewer trial and the first time I beat the Eden trial.

I would put in there when I beat the LRSF but the fact that it was multiple missions really took away from the immersion IMO. I honestly think that the method used in the hollows is done really well. Complete all the zone arcs, get a nice feeling for the zone, and then you can do a challenging trial. I don't find Task Forces for the most part satisfactory at all. It's a chore to finish them, nothing more.

I would run regular 8 man mission teams if the difficulty scaled to level 50. The difficulty of an 8 man level 10 team is huge. Anyone remember running a Posi with 8 members when we were all in the level range? Exemplaring down and we have all of our slots and its not difficult. At level 50, the game isn't hard enough. As long as your tank doesn't suck, healing isn't really needed. In order to make the game harder, I have to not invite tanks or controllers.

Let's be honest, if you think the game is challenging there's something wrong. Some people don't like a challenge and that's ok, but I truly love how this game plays and giving us something to challenge us would be great. It's not about loot or feeling elite, it's about having a sense of accomplished something. Hate on WoW all you want, but it definitely provides that feeling.

Turbo_Ski · 08-23-2010 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashen_EU

Unfortunately the only game people seem to think has end-game is WoW. The endgame content consisting of either the military grade organisation of Dungeon runs, orchestrated by archaically minded players who I have heard dictate precise builds required for each class in the raid. (If I wanted to get yelled at by a rude, arrogant, self obsessed person purported to be my superior I would have joined the army)

actually that perspective is a year and half outdated. Wrath had an extremely flexible raid design to make them more widely available to all groups. Only factors people consider for normal mode raid encounters are role composition (such as 2 tanks, 2-3 heals, 5-6 dps for a 10 man run) and if everyone is decently geared enough and keeping a decent balance between melee/physical dps and ranged/magical dps. I regularly PuG a 10 man ICC at least to 6/12 bosses each week without a sweat, something that was almost impossible to do in BC with Kara and Zul'Aman.

HPorch0 · 08-23-2010 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

actually that perspective is a year and half outdated. Wrath had an extremely flexible raid design to make them more widely available to all groups. Only factors people consider for normal mode raid encounters are role composition (such as 2 tanks, 2-3 heals, 5-6 dps for a 10 man run) and if everyone is decently geared enough and keeping a decent balance between melee/physical dps and ranged/magical dps. I regularly PuG a 10 man ICC at least to 6/12 bosses each week without a sweat, something that was almost impossible to do in BC with Kara and Zul'Aman.

Man I TOTALLY forgot about ZA. When I cleared that I was SO elated. That instance was quite a bit of fun. Especially tanking all those drago(?) that hatched with my pally.

Samuel_Tow · 08-23-2010 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

actually that perspective is a year and half outdated. Wrath had an extremely flexible raid design to make them more widely available to all groups. Only factors people consider for normal mode raid encounters are role composition (such as 2 tanks, 2-3 heals, 5-6 dps for a 10 man run) and if everyone is decently geared enough and keeping a decent balance between melee/physical dps and ranged/magical dps. I regularly PuG a 10 man ICC at least to 6/12 bosses each week without a sweat, something that was almost impossible to do in BC with Kara and Zul'Aman.

Speaking of which, I was remarking to my WoW-playing friend about how smart Blizzard were in terms of business. They have enough players to populate the moon, but instead of resting on their laurels and letting population density build teams by having people run into each other, they still instituted "quick game" team building that sets you up in a raid or instance automatically.

Now, it may be my friend and how he plays, but I get to watch what he's doing literally all the time when he plays, and almost the only time I ever see him team is either in instances or battlegrounds, both of which he joins via auto-team. The rest of the time when he's roaming the lands, he's basically solo doing Lord know what. I gave up on trying to figure out that game's questing system.

So what I'm saying is that, end game or no end game, WoW seems to have stopped being about precision-orchestrated encounters with Rick Flair as your team leader and more about a semi-random mash-up of willing volunteers that go with what they have. I wouldn't mind a system like that here, to be honest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Forbin_Project · 08-23-2010 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Speaking of which, I was remarking to my WoW-playing friend about how smart Blizzard were in terms of business. They have enough players to populate the moon, but instead of resting on their laurels and letting population density build teams by having people run into each other, they still instituted "quick game" team building that sets you up in a raid or instance automatically.

Now, it may be my friend and how he plays, but I get to watch what he's doing literally all the time when he plays, and almost the only time I ever see him team is either in instances or battlegrounds, both of which he joins via auto-team. The rest of the time when he's roaming the lands, he's basically solo doing Lord know what. I gave up on trying to figure out that game's questing system.

So what I'm saying is that, end game or no end game, WoW seems to have stopped being about precision-orchestrated encounters with Rick Flair as your team leader and more about a semi-random mash-up of willing volunteers that go with what they have. I wouldn't mind a system like that here, to be honest.

As long as they allow players the option of opting out of automatic team building I have no objection. I've played in other MMO's that have similar systems and the feature seems to attract a lot of people that join missions and then sit at the entrance waiting to collect the mission completion bonus while other players do all the work.

Samuel_Tow · 08-23-2010 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

As long as they allow players the option of opting out of automatic team building I have no objection. I've played in other MMO's that have similar systems and the feature seems to attract a lot of people that join missions and then sit at the entrance waiting to collect the mission completion bonus while other players do all the work.

As I've seen it in WoW, I don't think that's something for regular teams, as in a team already formed would start receiving auto-team-mates. It's more a team that's built from people looking by the system, rather than needing one player to show initiative and start doing it manually, and these teams seem to only apply to the dungeon or instance that people built them for.

I'm not saying they're an ideal feature, but auto-teams are a great way to make the population feel larger by letting people congregate for less effort and time invested. Hell, I would partake in this if it existed, and we all know how much I dislike teaming. That ought to say something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

HPorch0 · 08-23-2010 02:16 PM

yeah, I know what you're talking about.

it's basically the LFG tag that we can apply. instead of manually searching through everyone and cherry picking what you want, you flag yourself for... LRSF and the system groups those interested in the same thing together.

NuclearToast · 08-23-2010 02:36 PM

We'll never know the data behind the business decisions that caused Paragon Studios to come out with Praetoria (levels 1-20) before they came out with the much-requested "end game" stuff (50+), but I'll bet it has more to do with someone like me, who's a steady subscriber and plays alts that take around 500 hours to reach 50, than it does with people who take a week or two to get to 50, get bored, and unsubscribe until the next issue.

I'm not saying that your desires aren't important, but a smart business goes where the money is, especially if they have the data to prove it.

--NT

They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!

If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville

Starsman · 08-23-2010 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Now, it may be my friend and how he plays, but I get to watch what he's doing literally all the time when he plays, and almost the only time I ever see him team is either in instances or battlegrounds, both of which he joins via auto-team. The rest of the time when he's roaming the lands, he's basically solo doing Lord know what. I gave up on trying to figure out that game's questing system.

When was the last time you saw people do anything other than instances in this game? Ship Raids and Hammy you say? They have their rare spawns too, but a solo player or non raider will not be likely to be questing around those areas.

Quote:

So what I'm saying is that, end game or no end game, WoW seems to have stopped being about precision-orchestrated encounters with Rick Flair as your team leader and more about a semi-random mash-up of willing volunteers that go with what they have. I wouldn't mind a system like that here, to be honest.

WoW dungeons still require a specific team structure. No random group goes ahead (can't, system wont allow it) without a Tank, a Healer and 3 DPS. Depending on your class, you can queue for multiple roles, too (a warrior could join in as DPS or Tank.)

The game still require specific type of builds and knowledge to succeed, specially if you are the tank. It does not take rocket science, though. Any one can see one or two fights and know how to tank it in the future.

Raids tend to still be horribly draconian and can't be joined randomly. That will change in Cataclysm, but simply because all dungeons will have "raid modes" where you just turn a normal dungeon into a 25 man raid.

Starsmangames.com

Samuel_Tow · 08-23-2010 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsman

When was the last time you saw people do anything other than instances in this game? Ship Raids and Hammy you say? They have their rare spawns too, but a solo player or non raider will not be likely to be questing around those areas.

City of Heroes never made that claim, however, or at least hasn't in the past five years. Sure, there are still the few lost souls who feel that running into populated zones and asking for teams in Local is the way to team, and I'm sure a few still expect to see teams of heroes or villains roaming around the zones killing things, but that has not been even considered for YEARS now.

WoW is different, in that it has a much bigger world, much more people and, interestingly, much more to do in this big world. In fact, watching my friend play for a few years now, it felt like back in the day he spent most of his time in the overworld doing quests and cursing at his Quest Helper, whereas now I barely see him do that. I watched him put off an overworld quest for an entire week, and that's with me nagging him to do it like I'm his mother.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Turbo_Ski · 08-23-2010 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

So what I'm saying is that, end game or no end game, WoW seems to have stopped being about precision-orchestrated encounters with Rick Flair as your team leader and more about a semi-random mash-up of willing volunteers that go with what they have. I wouldn't mind a system like that here, to be honest.

What you're refering to is the "dungeon finder" feature they added in last December. It currently only works for 5 man instances and you check mark the roles you can/wish to perform when you queue up. It checks across your entire battlegroup and forms a team. 10/25 man raids still have to be formed up manually via the trade channel, but raids are no longer brutally difficult (yet still not mind-numbingly easy) as there were in BC and Vanilla. Exceptions being the last boss fights of raid being very difficult like Lich King, Yogg Saron, Algalon, and Halion.

Wrath still had a problem with raids being too lengthy per lockout, making it only possible to get halfway into Ulduar or ICC in PuG before people have to leave. Cata promises to fix this with more raids but smaller in length.

AlienOne · 08-23-2010 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWidower

Okay, point, but then that's not saying there's no endgame content available. That's saying that you (figuratively speaking) don't like the endgame content that's available, which is a totally separate issue.

Actually, that's not what's being said. What's being said is that the endgame content that's available has been run over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and.....rinse and repeat for 6 years.

I've got 45 toons. 22 of them are 50s. It's pretty safe to assume that I'm growing just a bit tired of the "trip to 50"--ESPECIALLY pre-stamina levels.

You can also safely assume that since I regularly play 22 50s, I've run the endgame content until I'm blue in the face and can do it blindfolded with 2 hands tied behind my back (figure of speech--kinda sad that I have to specify that with this audience)...

So, what is someone like me (and at LEAST several other people just in this thread (statistically speaking) looking for?

More endgame content.

Sure, we can tirelessly repeat Hami raids (if we can get the right amount of ATs/people together, and it doesn't conflict with our schedules) over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over like we have been for years and years... But, that's completely beside the point.

Sure, Praetoria looks great. But, I'm not excited about playing pre-stamina content for the 50th time. Sorry, that's not my cup of tea. I'll enjoy it the moment they unlock the zone to 50s that are already setted out and can exemp down and help some teams out.

Until then? All my chips are in for i19--and hopefully we don't have to wait until next year to get it.

"Alien"

P.S.
Also, what's this CoP you speak of? Is this something that people like me who run their own SG/VG that holds only their own toons can do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades

The way you play changes your IO slotting..

76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)

Starsman · 08-24-2010 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

City of Heroes never made that claim, however, or at least hasn't in the past five years. Sure, there are still the few lost souls who feel that running into populated zones and asking for teams in Local is the way to team, and I'm sure a few still expect to see teams of heroes or villains roaming around the zones killing things, but that has not been even considered for YEARS now.

WoW is different, in that it has a much bigger world, much more people and, interestingly, much more to do in this big world. In fact, watching my friend play for a few years now, it felt like back in the day he spent most of his time in the overworld doing quests and cursing at his Quest Helper, whereas now I barely see him do that. I watched him put off an overworld quest for an entire week, and that's with me nagging him to do it like I'm his mother.

From day one teaming up in WoW was centered around instanced dungeons. The over-world was focused towards solo play (with few exceptions that have been removed over time.)

WoW also had always a global LFG channel, and it also had a dungeon finder since very early, it just sucked due to it looking in the same server and you being forced to travel to some stone and stay near it to find a group. The recent upgraded dungeon finder allows you to be anywhere and do anything while you wait and it joins up people from different servers, reason for it's huge success and the abundance of "random groups".

My point is that little changed in the way of the game's design philosophy, despite the dungeons being mostly random groups. Dungeons are not any more causal now, they are more frequent but players are just as nit-picky as they used to be, if not more (specially at the endgame range where speed-runs are the cup of tea, not much different from speed run TFs for merits.)

Oh, and one thing I also forgot to note: although not always activly used, due to the fact that almost all bosses require specific strategies, the dungeon finder also has an additional roll to fill: Dungeon Guide. A role that is assigned to some one that is expected to tell everyone else how to do things. You can queue yourself with this secondary role or the game will pick a guide from the formed group (not sure if it uses criteria like how many times the player ran that dungeon.)

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