How many people believe this?


3dent

 

Posted

Err, Havoc_X, I believe the main reason that other thread was closed was that we had someone making offers to commit violence In Real Life and their was dramatic nuking of all threads associated with them.

I'm not saying everyone on your side of the argument is dangerous and crazy, but we can't rule it out yet.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havoc_X View Post
broken market
How exactly is the market broken? Keep in mind that high prices are not signs of brokenness, and nor are a shortage of rare items.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havoc_X View Post
Sorry "Uberguy" your one of the biggest reasons that the original thread was removed. You childish attacks on anyone that wanted a change/improvements to fixed a broken market was assinine. Give it a rest already.
Nope. You can lay the "blame" on me since I was the target of the aforementioned death threat. Although honestly is anything you read on the Internet worth threatening someone with bodily harm and death? I'm assuming you're a rational person and you can make the obvious judgment call on that.

The poster in question went off on the deep end because I had the audacity of commenting on his misconceptions in the market forum away from the main thread in General. Apparently, where he lives, that's a capital crime. Ridiculous overreaction.

I've actually never been been threatened with death before - either in real life or in any Internet medium. It was a first. Unfortunately, I think that threat and a stalking incident where another poster put some very unflattering tags on all my posts ("furyfag, etc.), following me from subforum to subforum were prime motivators in the forum lockdown that Ocho is currently pushing.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
How exactly is the market broken? Keep in mind that high prices are not signs of brokenness, and nor are a shortage of rare items.
The market is broken because people want to purple their warshades for 100k can't.


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
I can't even establish convincingly that the planet exists, let alone that it existed in the past. However, I can argue reasonably persuasively that I have found explanatory and predictive power in a series of assumptions as a result of which I can accept, at least provisionally, a series of methodologies and ways of interpreting sensory experience that allow us to draw more definite conclusions about the planet's age, and that at the very least, it appears that using these methodologies leads to more pleasant experiences than disregarding them does.

(Someone is supposed to say "I bet you're a blast at parties", to which I respond with a single-sentence post using vaguely Germanic word orderings, which has to be broken into two parts to get around the forum software's length limits, the upshot of which is "people love a philosopher, or at least, will pretend to if the philosopher sticks dollar bills in their thongs.")
Wait... so 'mathematician' is a kind of philosopher now? ;p


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havoc_X View Post
Yeah reality... right. You do realize this is a GAME correct?
Yes, it is.

Quote:
It has NO basis in reality and this includes the broken market.
I beg to differ.

This is a market in which real people are exchanging things that have some kind of value to them. It is, by definition, a real market, governed by the same fundamental principles that govern any market in which humans are exchanging things which have value to them and which cost them some form of time, effort, or other resource to acquire.

There's a reason that tests involving manufactured games with arbitrary rules (e.g., prisoner's dilemma, etc.) consistently predict the results of similar trials with things like purchases of houses, decisions about whether or not to commit crimes (or to inform on people who did), and so on: Because humans use the same rules to evaluate them.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havoc_X View Post
Yeah reality... right. You do realize this is a GAME correct? It has NO basis in reality and this includes the broken market.

Yep... this makes sense. oh wait...
I think the playerbase in this game is broken if they actually think applying price caps on the market would solve anything. You do realize that whenever artificial price caps are implied from an outside source, people will just move onto selling and buying items outside the governed marketing area (i.e. using black market, not referring to redside AH) for whatever price they can snag desired items for.

It works like this in real life, where real people exchange items for currency they've spent real time to earn. I just don't see how it would work differently here where we also have real people using the same time as in real life to earn the currency to buy things.

P.S. On what basis is the market not based on reality? Do we have unreal people here or something?


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Did I not get the memo? When did the market break?

When I sarted college, I picked up one of the MSFL gold Dark Side of the Moon CDs. It cost me like $25 or something.
I sold it later when I was in serious need of cash. I sold it for more than that.
Now, looking on eBay, it goes for anywhere from $40 - $799 (!). It has gotten much more rare, and there is still demand. Of course, some people are looking to gouge the unsuspecting masses or those who just want it and money is no object. But you can still get one for a bargain if you look and are patient.

This is exactly how the CoX markets are working. Maybe you should also complain to eBay.


 

Posted

Answer the following quiz:

I think the City of Heroes Market is broken because:

i)Items are too expensive.
ii)Items are too scarce.
iii)I cannot afford the items.

If your answer is i), then you should sell your drops and perhaps even a scarce drop to recoup that amount and use it on other items.

If your answer is ii), then you should try to produce the item yourself, or find a palatable alternative (Frankenslotting, other sets) that may help you along.

If your answer is iii), then sell drops and craft and sell drops until you achieve your goal. Play at 50 and generate more income.

The thing to remember is, the IO system is a carrot for you, for me, for others. If you got all your stuff right away then you'd get bored and go play another game...I know "get to 50" sounds cold and not everyone will get there, but even at mid levels you can make some nice influence through the market and go from there.

Remember, again, most activities ingame are surmountable through Single Origin Enhancements. Your desire for items doesn't change this. In any MMO, there will be some kind of gear grind and you'll get the gear through playing/raiding/exchanges, etc.


Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Infinity Villains
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
Answer the following quiz:

I think the City of Heroes Market is broken because:
People with poor understanding of basic economics won't quit complaining about it and refuse to be educated.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
People with poor understanding of basic economics won't quit complaining about it and refuse to be educated.
I don't consider myself any good at economics. I never took any economics classes outside those obligatory and I've never interested myself with economic journalism.

Oh wait, do you happen to mean this by basic economics..?

-People (= YOU, in most cases) want it: it costs a lot, supply may be scarce.
-People (=YOU, in most cases) don't want it: doesn't cost much, supply usually high.

... Because if you do, I consider myself very knowledgeable about it.

Then there's the thing which I don't think even falls into economics, but rather common sense. If you can pick up stuff for some amount of inf, and sell it for twice that, why would you not do it!? Oh yeah, it takes all of ten seconds to check a popular IO set for possible pieces to do this with...


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Partially I think that people in general know how an auction house style market works but don't actually grok the idea and rules behind a consignment house style market. And because of this players become easily frustrated and annoyed.

You look to buy an item, there are a lot available, you offer is similar to the last five transactions, and nothing happens. Suddenly the price in the transaction list shoots up and stays there. Or the opposite, you get the item for X and the price then drops in half and stays there for a while. Same is true on the sellers side. You put your item up for sale in the price range based on the last 5 transactions and it doesn't sell and you see the price plummet. If you pull the item to reprice it you lose that 5% fee. So you set the price low and it sells for that exact value while the previous four sold for much more.

To the casual user, there doesn't seem to be rhyme or reason to it. You see others getting "bargains" or making "killings" but it never seems to happen to you. Therefore it must be flippers, or cartels "fixing" the market so the average Joe, you, are hosed over.

With an auction you may set a reserve and when the auction is over in X hours/days you feel like you got paid a fair value. With our instant transaction as soon as a bid is over the lowest asking price it gives you the feeling of a store and a whole new way to buyer remorse due to a slipped digit or an errant cat. And because it often feels like a store, people may expect that it should be more like one.

Timed auctions never feel like a store and more like Christmas day as you find "presents" when you log in. Players are never conditioned to expect immediate gratification and therefore aren't upset when it doesn't happen.


Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components

Tempus unum hominem manet

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post

Timed auctions never feel like a store and more like Christmas day as you find "presents" when you log in. Players are never conditioned to expect immediate gratification and therefore aren't upset when it doesn't happen.
You raise up a good point, and this may, in fact, be a big reason behind the complaints.

However, I still like our market, mostly because it lets me BUY STUFZ NAO when I want to. It's really nice to be able to do that when you're looking for cheap items, because from what I experienced in WoW (*shudder*), people quite often posted outrageous buyout prices, so that anyone who wanted STUFZ NAO had to pay large amounts of money to be able to do that.

Our market encourages people to not post stuff up too high, which makes it possible for people to use it as a store to some extent, and I think it works well for that. Common stuff? No problem, practically a store. Uncommon stuff? Still quite close to a store. Rare stuff? Not as easy anymore, might have to end up waiting unless you want to pay to skip the queue. Very rare stuff? Unless you really have money to throw around, it isn't a store anymore.


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSorrow View Post

-People (= YOU, in most cases) want it: it costs a lot, supply may be scarce.
-People (=YOU, in most cases) don't want it: doesn't cost much, supply usually high.

... Because if you do, I consider myself very knowledgeable about it.
Eggsactly! Kindergarten economics.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette View Post
I've actually never been been threatened with death before - either in real life or in any Internet medium. It was a first.
Led a sheltered online life, eh?
As I recall, my first threat of death or serious bodily injury occurred over a dial-up line using a 2400 baud modem.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
There's a reason that tests involving manufactured games with arbitrary rules (e.g., prisoner's dilemma, etc.) consistently predict the results of similar trials with things like purchases of houses, decisions about whether or not to commit crimes (or to inform on people who did), and so on: Because humans use the same rules to evaluate them.
This is true, but only to a certain extent. Because the game has no real consequences, and it's possible to go completely broke and then be a millionaire again in a couple of hours, people do not behave the same way as they do in real life.

People in the game market are far more impulsive. Real people can't spend their savings down to zero on a whim because they can't regenerate them quickly. Your kids will not starve if you spend all your inf on a LotG: +recharge.

There are people who do behave this way in real life: they are typically gambling addicts (or the guys who caused the economic meltdown). They are fairly rare because most of us are cognizant of the consequences of reckless spending. But the game is a release from reality, where it's safe to give in to your impulses.

Given that, it's only natural for the game market to have more ups and downs than real markets, and for players to be less careful about how they spend their inf. If you pay too much for something it just doesn't matter -- it only means that you have to spend more time doing something that you apparently enjoy doing in the first place.

So, yes, the game market does act a lot like real markets, but it has a lot of crazy incentives (getting crafting badges, for example) that completely skew the value of certain items.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
Led a sheltered online life, eh?
As I recall, my first threat of death or serious bodily injury occurred over a dial-up line using a 2400 baud modem.
I don't think it takes a sheltered online existence to have never encountered this, at least not directed at one's self. Fortunately, people who overtly act like this are comparatively rare online, unless you're involved in an online community that's specifically likely to attract that sort of person.

Note that I didn't say these people are rare in absolute terms. They're just a small part of most communities. As such, it's easy to not run afoul of them.


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Red
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
Led a sheltered online life, eh?
As I recall, my first threat of death or serious bodily injury occurred over a dial-up line using a 2400 baud modem.
Not really. I don't participate in many online communities, and the ones I do are pretty civil. I've been threatened with bodily harm in real life but not death.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
So, yes, the game market does act a lot like real markets, but it has a lot of crazy incentives (getting crafting badges, for example) that completely skew the value of certain items.
Yes. But then, real markets have a lot of crazy incentives. Consider the parody ad "Diamonds: She'll Pretty Much Have To"

The biggest difference is that, in real markets, the incentives to take advantage of inefficiencies are much, much, larger -- meaning that the available remaining inefficiency to exploit is usually much, much, smaller.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
Not terrible, but not once did you address him as "son" or "junior".
My favorite has always been "sport"


 

Posted

Well, now I'm sorry I even started this thread. Funny how my writing this thread led to Fury Flechette posting in the OTHER thread, which led to a death threat that caused the threatening person to be banned.

Please don't make me the catalyst of yet another banning.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eek a Mouse View Post
Please don't make me the catalyst of yet another banning.
Unfortunately, stupidity is not a just cause for banning people.


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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."