How many people believe this?

this would encourage hoarding and eliminate the incentive to price responsibly.

i mean I'd love more slots for my scheming, but I understand why we don't have them and view it as serving the greater good.

You have at least a reasonable understanding, and you do not have the combination of {Flawed Idea + Angry Rant}.
People who understand the Market can still see flaws in it, but from what I've seen of these forums, they do so in a more civil and logical way than the "burn the markets! RRarrrrr!! Purple my casual warshade!! I should have a full set of PvP IOs 20 minutes after getting PL'ed to L50!!" folks.

(Just to be clear, I have no intention of insulting you or your idea. As you are a reasonable and decent poster and your idea would not, in my mind bring upon total economic ruin.)

My theory that : "Ignorance of the Market= {Bad Ideas + Angry Rant + Lack of good explanation}" still stands.

Only stupid people. :/


To add to the thread: don't you just love reading about those people who win a few hundred million dollars in the lottery and then are suddenly destitute within months?

It's because they can't comprehend and don't understand economics.


Most intelligent people don't liquidate their income on lottery tickets--they're smarter than that. And those that do enjoy playing it and win don't spectacularly fail with it and end up on television.

I don't think there is anyone who thinks the market as currently implemented is perfect. However like you the majority of people who understand it recognize it as a decent compromise system that is a lot fairer to casual players than most other systems would be. The changes we generally want are more about tweaking it to make it more accessible than burning it to the ground and starting over.

There is also a general recognition amongst such people that you can't effectively adjust market prices by changing the market mechanics (or at least you can't adjust them in a way that would favor the majority of the player base). If the devs wanted to decrease prices they would need to either reduce the rate of inf generation for level 50s relative to everyone else, increase the rate at which inf is removed from the game or increase the supply of items (by increasing drop rates). Playing tricks with the market mechanics won't impact any of these, increasing the listing fee would but that has it's own set of issues.

... is that not a market mechanic?

No, it means most recipes especially including purples, will never be selling at all.

Not on the market, anyway

Actually, it is because too many people look at a slow moving item and say "I only have x number of slots, do I really want to tie down 8 of them with bids on this item at several levels and hope that one fills but not 2 or 3, when I could be selling" or "I only have x slots, do I really want to list this Mailaise's Illusion at level 32 that will probably sit for a month, or do I want to sell common salvage..."

I'd rather be able to list as many items as I want and bid on as many as I want and never have any of us forced to delete items or vendor them. I want us to be able to post and sell and bid as much as we want.

I see the Goat's comment about hoarding, and I do understand it, but I think that more slots will encourage more selling rather than more hording. This is based on the supply being so heavily influenced by farmers and other power players who generate huge supply. I might be wrong, but I think they would rather sell than horde.

True enough I'll give you that one.

It would certainly encourage more listing, but I'm not sure those listings would result in any more sales.

I price the majority of my junk to move NAO-ish because I know tomorrow I'll need those slots for something else. If I had a whole lot more slots my incentive to undercut the "going rate" in search of a quick sale is gone. If a recipe/IO is 'worth' 20 million and I'm tight on slots, I'll list for 7. Same situation with a ton of slots, no way I'm listing for 7, I'll list for 18 and milk the max profit out of the sale. There's no reason not to.

That's not necessarily a bad thing- I certainly wouldn't mind. But it is contrary to the way the devs set up the market (limiting storage to encourage turnover).

Agreed, if I had more slots I'd be selling a lot more stuff, seeing I have bins upon bins of items I don't list out of frustration to their abundant supply (Thunderstrikes, Doctored Wounds, Crushing Impacts, etc) and scarce return.

Actually, if we're going to Magic Pony land, what I would really, really want is seperate buy and sell slots. Say you have 20 slots available...20 of them would be for sales only and 20 for purchases. Of course, feel free to "doom" the idea but it seems, at first brush, you might be executing more transactions in this manner.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

I started to say 9999 but I thought to myself, "No, it can't possibly have been THAT low, can it?" It's like a terrible nightmare that I've woken from and can only barely recall in brief flashes.

Actually, we do have access to more slots.

I've got a couple of dozen characters that I obviously can't play all at once. When I get useful things like Thunderstrike, etc., but I don't have market slots on my current character, I email them to myself and then put them on the market with other characters.

I don't do this to eke out that last bit of inf, I do it because it seems like such a waste to vendor decent stuff that just happens to be worth less than the other stuff I'm selling, or because my slots are filled with bids. If enough people do this it should increase the supply of solid but not flashy items.

I don't think most people who propose such things actually think it would make the markets "work." I think most people who propose such things don't care if the markets work, they believe the primary purpose to the markets is to supply players with what they want at prices that make it easy for them to get it, without regard to the desires of sellers. And they almost certainly believe that if players won't sell at those prices, they should just cut out the middle man and convert the market into a store that doesn't rely on sellers. Because a corollary to this assertion is that there should always be enough supply for everyone to have whatever they want if they decide to acquire it.

I would bet that if you asked most people who believe in extremely low caps if they would care if the markets were replaced with stores that just bought and sold everything at fixed prices, most wouldn't object. Most would probably consider it an improvement.

Well there you go.

That's true about many more things than just the market.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

And if you need cash, MAIL me YOUR GOLD! Seriously, I promise! I'll give you MONEY* for YOUR GOLD!

Yes it will be 'money' but it will be not a lot of money in fact you will be surprised at how little money you will get and you may even get angry but it will be of little use to you because you will find it very hard to contact me once you give me you money and if you last it out and ever DO contact me after much wrangling and cajoling I will simply inform you that I'm sorry but your gold which is now MY gold because you sold it to me haha has already been melted down and made into a giant gold bar which is of course not the case but that is what I will tell you and you will have no way of knowing whether I am lying or not which of course I am and of course you will feel pretty dumb having fallen for this which is by design hahahaha.

I know I haven't been around in the forums lately, but I still read them on occasion and still play. That excuse for my absence, I just wanted to come in here and say I, for one, would *LOVE* to see a crazy low inf cap like that on the market. I no longer play enough to need the uber IOs, but I still like making the big income from the market so that when I have time to play again later this year I'll be rich enough to uber IO my favorite characters.

Thank you, Eek, for bringing this excellent idea to our attention. And thank the person who proposed for me, if you would. I have loads of valuable IOs that I could get feeeelthy stinkin' rich selling off market were such a cap implemented.

RagManX

Was the thread deleted?

I don't have a problem with the market myself, but it seems to me that the market causes more bad feelings than anything else in the game these days. I think the fundamental issue is that some people play more than others, and in a game like this time is money. People who play more get more stuff. Everyone wants all the stuff, and they don't like the fact that other people have more of it.

Actually, I think the fundamental issue isn't that some people have more stuff than others, it's the visibility of other people having more stuff. In most MMO's, the fact that other people have more stuff is totally visible and is shoved in your face everywhere. You get used to it or you quit. In CoH, it's mostly invisible that other people have more stuff. They may have a few more costume options, or be a little more effective, or have a bunch of bonuses listed in their info page, but those things are easy to ignore. They're even hard to notice if you don't know what to look for.

The one place where it becomes painfully obvious that other people have more stuff than you is in the market. That makes people unhappy. From the devs' point of view, it's that unhappiness that is the problem, more than the prices or the distribution of loot. So what could be done to reduce that unhappiness without actually changing the overall distribution of goods? In other words, how can we make people less unhappy about how rich other people are without making everyone equally rich?