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Wouldn't we have to come up with a clear explanation of what's "broken" first?
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
I hope they fix the bloody thing one way or another.
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yeah one thing that is broken is that the alternatives that is supplied is near usless.
Two, in most games, even in WoW there is a way one way or another to get even the IO equvialent. Whether that's fighting a certain monster, or task or etc, here, it depends on some crazy price of the market and doing anything outside the market there is no gurantee at all. Some people never even seen a purple drop yet naturally and they been playing for a while. Even with Hami when they was teh elite enahancement. You could either find it off another player yes, or you could go do a hami raid or complete the top TF, STF ircc. Not anymore. There is a huge gap between the haves and the have nots. And not like all the haves been playing for ages just as just as all the have nots have not been playing for only 1 hour or a month. I've seen more powerleveled 50 billionairs then poor 50s that have not been PLed. I think there should be a cap, but of course 100k is too low. Something that is not extreme high or extreme low. Something you still have to work for but is not out of reach for the casual player. 100 million is what I previous suggested with in lieu of a place where they can go get it for a reasonable fixed price. That way if the player want to sell it off market, have at it if they can find a buyer. But if a person is not swimming in billions and billions and have the hookup like that, they can go to the store just like buying an IO. Hell they could put this store in the middle of the shard but it's an alternative. There is no competition in this market really and just like any real market with no competition you dont get prices that is better you get highly inflated prices. If there was only one meat market, then the guy can set the price of meat at say what ever he feel like that day because who else are you going to buy from? Maybe one day he feel like $1 a pound maybe the next he want a new home onthe hill and now the meat price is $1,000 and if you want meat you either buy it at that price or not at all. There are antimonopoly rules and other rules in a rea life economy for a reason any oen with a sliver of understandign of economics would know that but of course just like in RL, the guy with the power would simly tell the other guy "Hey, buy form me then sell the meat to someone else and you can be rich just like me. there is nothing wrong with the system at all and it's fine just the way it is." How many CEOs would say "hey I laid 100 folks off, maybe it's wrong to take home a 300 million dollar bonus this year even though the company was run into the ground." probably not many they probably woudl say, "the system is good and if the average joe would stop being lazy and invest wisely he can be a millionaire just like me and wont have to worried about getting fired."
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
Forgive me for jumping into this thread, but I've been bored at work so I started reading some of the forums I don't usually frequent such as this one, and some of the stupidity stuns me.
I'll say a bit about how I play. I'm not a "marketeer". I use the market to sell what I don't want and buy what I do want. I might occasionally do something like vendoring underprice recipies to get enough inf for a new character to buy DOs or SOs, but I don't do any of the fancy stuff some people do. Nor do I farm. I run missions and TFs. And, although I play a lot, I'm a chronic altoholic so most of my time is spend on lower level characters with low earning capacity. And yet I don't have any problem getting what I want from the market. Why? Because a) I'm patient and b) I don't have ridiculous expectations.
What it seem to me that people like Evil_Legacy are basically saying is "I want everything now".
They talk about people never seeing a purple drop. Well, that's KINDA THE POINT. They're ULTRA RARE. To compare with other MMOs, well, I dunno what the top raid boss in WoW is, but how many people have gotten the loot that he drops? Very very few. I remember back in the days of EQ when, despite a total population of over 100k, probably less than 500 people had even seen some of the final bosses (eg, Plane of Time during the PoP era), let alone actually got some of the loot from them. Purples are the equivalent of this - the average player is NOT EXPECTED TO HAVE THEM - except at least there's a chance, no matter how small, that a normal player coudl get lucky and get one. And on top of that, this top end raid gear elsewhere is often no-drop, so there's only one way to get that. Should WoW add a store from which anyone can buy the top end gear?. (Incidentally, I've had one purple drop. And I sold it)
And other than purples, it's really not hard to get the IOs needed to get a decent build. And even this is far more than you need to do any content in the game as the devs intended it to be done (ie not soloing +4x8). To give an example: my DB/SR scrapper. I soloed a lot, but did a fair few TFs and a bit on mission teaming. I never level locked or tried to avoid exp. I bought DOs as 12 and 17, SOs at 22 and frankenslotted IOs from 27 through to 50, where I started looking at getting sets. When I hit level 50 (about 6 months ago), I converted my merits into inf by buying LotG+rech IOs. Combined with what I'd earned I had around 850m inf.
This was the first character I'd really IOed out (mainly I've just frankenslotted with the odd set), so I didn't quite know what to expect in terms of cost. I was confident I'd be able to get a good build, but thought it migth take most of my inf. In truth, I put together the bulk of my build - barring luxuries like, ironically enough those LotG+rech I'd just sold - for at most 250m. Yes, that's less than a third of what I'd earned while going from 1-50, playing normally. Now, sure, the build can be improved a bit, and I'm slowly doing so, but I'm softcapped to all, have a great attack chain and am sustainable end wise and as such can do pretty much anything in the game including soloing stuff that is designed to be fought be an entire team.
Sure, to get the totally ultimate IO build it will cost a lot, and will take a fair bit of time to get there, but to go back to comparing to other MMOs, think about how long it takes to get the top end gear there, given it usually comes from raids.
If you're prepared to actually put in a bit of time into seeing how the market works, then you'll quickly see there's no problem. Inf is easy to get, there's usually a decent supply of drops, and, apart from purples, there's always another way to get stuff (merits, tickets etc). Of course, if you can't be bothered to do this, it's easier to just come on the forums and complain...
tl:dr - the market isn't broken, the players who want everything handed to them on a silver platter are
Oh, and paragraphs are your friend...
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
yeah one thing that is broken is that the alternatives that is supplied is near usless.
Two, in most games, even in WoW there is a way one way or another to get even the IO equvialent. Whether that's fighting a certain monster, or task or etc, here, it depends on some crazy price of the market and doing anything outside the market there is no gurantee at all. Some people never even seen a purple drop yet naturally and they been playing for a while. Even with Hami when they was teh elite enahancement. You could either find it off another player yes, or you could go do a hami raid or complete the top TF, STF ircc. Not anymore. There is a huge gap between the haves and the have nots. And not like all the haves been playing for ages just as just as all the have nots have not been playing for only 1 hour or a month. I've seen more powerleveled 50 billionairs then poor 50s that have not been PLed. I think there should be a cap, but of course 100k is too low. Something that is not extreme high or extreme low. Something you still have to work for but is not out of reach for the casual player. 100 million is what I previous suggested with in lieu of a place where they can go get it for a reasonable fixed price. That way if the player want to sell it off market, have at it if they can find a buyer. But if a person is not swimming in billions and billions and have the hookup like that, they can go to the store just like buying an IO. Hell they could put this store in the middle of the shard but it's an alternative. There is no competition in this market really and just like any real market with no competition you dont get prices that is better you get highly inflated prices. If there was only one meat market, then the guy can set the price of meat at say what ever he feel like that day because who else are you going to buy from? Maybe one day he feel like $1 a pound maybe the next he want a new home onthe hill and now the meat price is $1,000 and if you want meat you either buy it at that price or not at all. There are antimonopoly rules and other rules in a rea life economy for a reason any oen with a sliver of understandign of economics would know that but of course just like in RL, the guy with the power would simly tell the other guy "Hey, buy form me then sell the meat to someone else and you can be rich just like me. there is nothing wrong with the system at all and it's fine just the way it is." How many CEOs would say "hey I laid 100 folks off, maybe it's wrong to take home a 300 million dollar bonus this year even though the company was run into the ground." probably not many they probably woudl say, "the system is good and if the average joe would stop being lazy and invest wisely he can be a millionaire just like me and wont have to worried about getting fired." |
There's a huge perception of a gap between haves and have-nots.
As one of the people somewhere between these two extremes I can honestly say I've never actually come across a case where someone has said "Hey, you can't be on this team. You aren't IO'd / purpled out"
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Cute. Very childish, but cute. Seems like you are the one that needs to grow up, or at least pull your head out.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
Maybe after you grow up a little more and start reading the books with the big words and numbers in them you'll be able to understand what the adults are talking about. Until then, you should probably avoid making statements about things that you clearly don't understand, and should just focus on the pretty pictures.
How was that? |
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Rather than concentrate on personal insults and fighting, I'd like you to answer the following questions you have conveniently skipped, and still claim that the market is broken.|
Originally Posted by Havoc_X
Cute. Very childish, but cute. Seems like you are the one that needs to grow up, or at least pull your head out.
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1) How exactly is the market broken? Is it broken because the player who doesn't want to put time into understanding the system, can't make it work for him, and those who do, can?
2) How would price caps help this? Would they make item availability better? Lower all prices to [insert price cap here]?
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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That simply isn't so. Not every character in WOW is able to get the equivalent of purple IOs. In order to get that gear, you have to already have gear beyond the standard level stuff and you must participate in specific content with large groups of similarly-geared people. And its not like in WOW there is an "alternative" to getting raid gear other than raiding. You have to raid, you *can't* buy it on the market. In order to obtain the caliber of gear to participate in raids, you have to spend a lot of time and effort doing specific tasks. If you don't do these activities, you will not only never have high-end raid gear, you won't be able to participate in high-end raids.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
yeah one thing that is broken is that the alternatives that is supplied is near usless.
Two, in most games, even in WoW there is a way one way or another to get even the IO equvialent. Whether that's fighting a certain monster, or task or etc, here, it depends on some crazy price of the market and doing anything outside the market there is no gurantee at all. Some people never even seen a purple drop yet naturally and they been playing for a while. Even with Hami when they was teh elite enahancement. You could either find it off another player yes, or you could go do a hami raid or complete the top TF, STF ircc. Not anymore. |
Still, you know what? In COH there *is* an alternative to purples (or other IOs). They are called SOs. They can be bought in stores. The game is designed around them. You can participate in every bit of content in the game with only SOs. The same can't be said about WOW, you can't do high-end raids in quest greens.
But beyond that, what you are describing isn't "broken". Its a design choice that you don't agree with. The developers intentionally made purples *not* drop from specific foes, and they intentionally made purples *not* available from merit vendors or as random rolls from tickets or merits. That has nothing to do with the market being broken. And since purple recipes came out after the market was introduced, I think its fair to say that the high prices of purples is working as the developers intended. The high prices are the result of limited supply and high demand. When costume pieces first came out, the prices for wings were high. The developers adjusted the drop rate. Prices fell. They could do the same thing with purples, if they wanted to. But they don't.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
There is a huge gap between the haves and the have nots. And not like all the haves been playing for ages just as just as all the have nots have not been playing for only 1 hour or a month. I've seen more powerleveled 50 billionairs then poor 50s that have not been PLed. I think there should be a cap, but of course 100k is too low. Something that is not extreme high or extreme low. Something you still have to work for but is not out of reach for the casual player. 100 million is what I previous suggested with in lieu of a place where they can go get it for a reasonable fixed price. That way if the player want to sell it off market, have at it if they can find a buyer. But if a person is not swimming in billions and billions and have the hookup like that, they can go to the store just like buying an IO. Hell they could put this store in the middle of the shard but it's an alternative. There is no competition in this market really and just like any real market with no competition you dont get prices that is better you get highly inflated prices. If there was only one meat market, then the guy can set the price of meat at say what ever he feel like that day because who else are you going to buy from? Maybe one day he feel like $1 a pound maybe the next he want a new home onthe hill and now the meat price is $1,000 and if you want meat you either buy it at that price or not at all. There are antimonopoly rules and other rules in a rea life economy for a reason any oen with a sliver of understandign of economics would know that but of course just like in RL, the guy with the power would simly tell the other guy "Hey, buy form me then sell the meat to someone else and you can be rich just like me. there is nothing wrong with the system at all and it's fine just the way it is." How many CEOs would say "hey I laid 100 folks off, maybe it's wrong to take home a 300 million dollar bonus this year even though the company was run into the ground." probably not many they probably woudl say, "the system is good and if the average joe would stop being lazy and invest wisely he can be a millionaire just like me and wont have to worried about getting fired."
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I can understand it if you don't *enjoy* the market and would prefer to buy stuff from a store. Different strokes for different folks. But I don't think you've shown why the market itself is broken.
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Is this the same WoW where something like 70% of the playerbase doesn't make it to the level cap (Blizzard's own numbers)? The same WoW with the seemingly neverending treadmill of gear upgrades? The same WoW where the best items are Bind-on-Pickup, and there is NO way to ever buy or sell them? The same WoW with add-ons that rate player's Gearscore so they can be excluded from those same raids they need to get the cool loot if they don't have some arbitrary amount of 'good' gear?|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Two, in most games, even in WoW there is a way one way or another to get even the IO equvialent. Whether that's fighting a certain monster, or task or etc,
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| here, it depends on some crazy price of the market and doing anything outside the market there is no gurantee at all. Some people never even seen a purple drop yet naturally and they been playing for a while. |
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| There is a huge gap between the haves and the have nots. |
SO's are available to everyone. Common IO's are available to everyone. Cheap uncommon set IO's are available to everyone. Rare set IO's are available to everyone. Ultra-rare purple IO's are available to anyone. PvP IO's are available to anyone. The only difference between any of these things, is the amount of effort required to obtain them.
The first three (SO's/Common IO's/Uncommon set IO's) are so easily obtainable that a player would have to go out of their way to not be able to afford them.
The market makes it EASIER to get these things, not harder. See WoW's BoP system and raiding treadmill as a counter-example.
And don't say that SO's and basic set IO's aren't good enough. I have a MA/Electric Armor scrapper on Test, slotted with nothing but old yellow SO's. I can handle x3 or x4 difficulty with him. I made an all-too common Fire/Kin controller just to check it out. Slotted with nothing expensive, just easily available IO sets he is soft-capped to S/L damage and can solo farm at x8. No purples. No PvP IO's. No rare unique IO's.
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| a place where they can go get it for a reasonable fixed price. |
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| There is no competition in this market really and just like any real market with no competition you dont get prices that is better you get highly inflated prices. |
No competition? All players blueside use the same market. All players redside use the same market. Soon all players will use the same market, regardless of faction. There are tens of thousands of sellers and buyers. All those sellers are competing against each other for the prices the buyers are offering. The seller with the lowest selling price always gets the sale.
Your problem, is that you seem to want to remove the competition that exists between BUYERS. That's not fair.
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| any oen with a sliver of understandign of economics would know that |
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I believe you'll find that most, if not all, of the folks who want the market "fixed" disagree vehemently with this perspective.|
Originally Posted by PhroX
If you're prepared to actually put in a bit of time into seeing how the market works, then you'll quickly see there's no problem. Inf is easy to get, there's usually a decent supply of drops, and, apart from purples, there's always another way to get stuff (merits, tickets etc). Of course, if you can't be bothered to do this, it's easier to just come on the forums and complain...
tl:dr - the market isn't broken, the players who want everything handed to them on a silver platter are |
They argue that a video game should not require "investment" of time and/or effort, because that's not fun. This despite the fact that, you know, basically every mainstream, subscription-based MMO (and a lot of the free ones) are fundamentally designed around that concept of (average) time investment to make X progress. That's usually conveniently ignored, because some of the other things you do that require time/effort investment are considered acceptable levels of investment, while anything that's over the player in question's tolerance is "broken".
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I have.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
There's a huge perception of a gap between haves and have-nots.
As one of the people somewhere between these two extremes I can honestly say I've never actually come across a case where someone has said "Hey, you can't be on this team. You aren't IO'd / purpled out" |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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so because I think the market should be fixed it's automatic I dont know how to use it? well let me enlighten you I actually do know how to use it but still think it's absurd with the prices that things go for. I'm no means poor or broke and probably have more cash in the inf bank than many of these "for as-is market". And no I dont expect everything to be handed to me but I would like to see the player base get a fair shake and a fair price. I think it's messed up with many of the prices and with really no alternative. and no the seller with the lowest selling price dont always get the sale or then, nothing I put on the market I put for $1 would not sell for over the listed price sometimes when it's not the only one. Hey this is just my idea, and just as I disagree with the market should stay as is and you disagree with it should be changed. and never said SOs are not good enough but I did say as there isa store for them there should be a store for IOs then the prices on the market will be level out to a stable reasonable price while if players want to pay more can just go get it from another player as you can still get SOs on the market but they aint no billions of dollars. why? because you can go get them at a reasonable price elsewhere for the most part.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Is this the same WoW where something like 70% of the playerbase doesn't make it to the level cap (Blizzard's own numbers)? The same WoW with the seemingly neverending treadmill of gear upgrades? The same WoW where the best items are Bind-on-Pickup, and there is NO way to ever buy or sell them? The same WoW with add-ons that rate player's Gearscore so they can be excluded from those same raids they need to get the cool loot if they don't have some arbitrary amount of 'good' gear?
plus sometimes maybe they should put a guranteed system to ge the :good stuff" as it even been mention. to get it, you work for it to get it you cna have the preresiquite gear then go on a raid. Here might cost you 100 million or cost you 1 billlion depending how the few players with that item feels. In the other game, you do the preresiquite and you have it. Here it's maybe or maybe not unless you pay out the butt. While you throw around lazy and work maybe the whole rare system should go to WoW like then that is work and any player after the work can get it and it's guranteed not billions. ULTRA-RARE. That is the developer's own description of purples. It's not really that complicated a concept to understand. Really? What is this gap? And how much of that is perception? SO's are available to everyone. Common IO's are available to everyone. Cheap uncommon set IO's are available to everyone. Rare set IO's are available to everyone. Ultra-rare purple IO's are available to anyone. PvP IO's are available to anyone. The only difference between any of these things, is the amount of effort required to obtain them. The first three (SO's/Common IO's/Uncommon set IO's) are so easily obtainable that a player would have to go out of their way to not be able to afford them. The market makes it EASIER to get these things, not harder. See WoW's BoP system and raiding treadmill as a counter-example. And don't say that SO's and basic set IO's aren't good enough. I have a MA/Electric Armor scrapper on Test, slotted with nothing but old yellow SO's. I can handle x3 or x4 difficulty with him. I made an all-too common Fire/Kin controller just to check it out. Slotted with nothing expensive, just easily available IO sets he is soft-capped to S/L damage and can solo farm at x8. No purples. No PvP IO's. No rare unique IO's. http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Merit_Vendor And with that one single statement you have demonstrated your complete and utter ignorance of the way the market functions. No wonder you seem to fail at being able to use it. No competition? All players blueside use the same market. All players redside use the same market. Soon all players will use the same market, regardless of faction. There are tens of thousands of sellers and buyers. All those sellers are competing against each other for the prices the buyers are offering. The seller with the lowest selling price always gets the sale. Your problem, is that you seem to want to remove the competition that exists between BUYERS. That's not fair. The only understanding of economics needed for the market here I learned in elementary school and watching Sesame Street as a little kid. Supply & demand isn't exactly graduate level economic theory. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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As opposed to WOW, where you literally are unable to participate in some content if your gear score isn't high enough? I'm with Carnifax, I've never seen that happen in COX and can't imagine any scenario in the game that would actually *require* a full team of purpled-out heros.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
I have.
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Do you honestly believe this? THere is no competition??? There's TONS of competition, competition for goods, AND competition for sales. |
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
There is no competition in this market really and just like any real market with no competition you dont get prices that is better you get highly inflated prices.
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The closest analogy this market resembles is a good old fashioned antique flea market. Its a huge field filled with 1000s of buyers and 1000s of sellers. The group tend to be broken up into 3 groups: occasional sellers - those who are merely selling their inventory and are not interested in buying more stuff; professional dealers who are looking for inventory AND looking to sell; and retail buyers. Everyone wants the good items, not everyone has the good items. Some sellers have better items than they know, the more knowledgable dealers will buy those items and increase the price. But nothing prevents the retail buyer from beating the dealer to that item. All they have to do is get there first and have the knowledge to recognize its underpriced. Meanwhile both professional dealers and occasional sellers are scoping out other prices, and each seller wants to price their items slightly lower than the other sellers.
If no one has the same item, than yes, you can price it high, but you DO want to sell it, so you try to price it at what the market will bear. And someone might pull in with a truck with a few dozen of that item that you are wanting to sell, you want to sell it fast. And if its a rare item, its unlikely, if its a common item they chances are very very good another seller will pull up selling your item. So price it to move.
So the professional dealer is competing to buy the same items as the retail buyer, and professional dealer is competing to sell the same items as the occasional seller, and yet he is out there buying and selling and making money. Why? Because he hustles and has more knowledge.
The analogy eventually breaks down, since money doesnt rain from the sky in RL, and no one shoplifts at WWs, but its a pretty good analogy.
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1.) I don't understand why a store where you could buy an unlimited number of purple recipes for 100 million would be more affordable than the market, where some purple recipes retail for under 100 million and a few go for over 200 million, but most are somewhere in between. Really, you are talking about folks saving about 35%.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
so because I think the market should be fixed it's automatic I dont know how to use it? well let me enlighten you I actually do know how to use it but still think it's absurd with the prices that things go for. I'm no means poor or broke and probably have more cash in the inf bank than many of these "for as-is market". And no I dont expect everything to be handed to me but I would like to see the player base get a fair shake and a fair price. I think it's messed up with many of the prices and with really no alternative. and no the seller with the lowest selling price dont always get the sale or then, nothing I put on the market I put for $1 would not sell for over the listed price sometimes when it's not the only one. Hey this is just my idea, and just as I disagree with the market should stay as is and you disagree with it should be changed. and never said SOs are not good enough but I did say as there isa store for them there should be a store for IOs then the prices on the market will be level out to a stable reasonable price while if players want to pay more can just go get it from another player as you can still get SOs on the market but they aint no billions of dollars. why? because you can go get them at a reasonable price elsewhere for the most part.
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2.) I think a lot of people take issue with your equating purple recipes being *expensive* with the market being *broken*. Yes, we get it, you think that everyone should have purples at a price you find reasonable. Using your figures, you think that prices for purples are on average about 35% too high.
3.) I don't think you are addressing/understanding the retort that no one *needs* purples to play the game. The "alternative" is to not have them.
4.) The flip side is, and you are the one who brought up the "other" MMORPG, the ability of players to obtain high-end loot in COX is *greater* because of the market, including purples. Given the same amount of time and planning, its *easier* to get purpled out in COX than to get the high-end raid gear in WOW.
5.) Finally, based on every design choice that has come out in the game, the *last* thing the developers will do is create a store where ultra-rare recipes can be bought for inf.
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So you have no idea what price caps actually do. When an item starts to sell for no lower than the price cap, that items stops being sold on the capped market and moves to a true black market, where it will sell for whatever the market will bear. Just like it does now. It's not an issue of sellers trying to find rich buyers off market, is an issue of sellers refusing to sell on market because they know they can get more off market. See some PvP IOs for a reference. The net effect is fewer items selling on market and people who don't understand the market continuing to complain.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
I think there should be a cap, but of course 100k is too low. Something that is not extreme high or extreme low. Something you still have to work for but is not out of reach for the casual player. 100 million is what I previous suggested with in lieu of a place where they can go get it for a reasonable fixed price. That way if the player want to sell it off market, have at it if they can find a buyer.
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| There is no competition in this market really and just like any real market with no competition you dont get prices that is better you get highly inflated prices. If there was only one meat market, then the guy can set the price of meat at say what ever he feel like that day because who else are you going to buy from? Maybe one day he feel like $1 a pound maybe the next he want a new home onthe hill and now the meat price is $1,000 and if you want meat you either buy it at that price or not at all. There are antimonopoly rules and other rules in a rea life economy for a reason |
It's kinda funny how many people genuinely think that the problems with the market are that prices are too high and rare things are rare. The market isn't broken simply because you are unable to buy everything you want immediately at whatever price you want.
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1. Be careful what you wish for on the stores. The current "store" is the Merit vendor, where you have to grind large numbers of arcs and TFs to get "the good stuff". If the Devs were to put in a store that sold high end gear, the work to get that gear would probably be longer than just earning it yourself or using it the market.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
so because I think the market should be fixed it's automatic I dont know how to use it? well let me enlighten you I actually do know how to use it but still think it's absurd with the prices that things go for. I'm no means poor or broke and probably have more cash in the inf bank than many of these "for as-is market". And no I dont expect everything to be handed to me but I would like to see the player base get a fair shake and a fair price. I think it's messed up with many of the prices and with really no alternative. and no the seller with the lowest selling price dont always get the sale or then, nothing I put on the market I put for $1 would not sell for over the listed price sometimes when it's not the only one. Hey this is just my idea, and just as I disagree with the market should stay as is and you disagree with it should be changed. and never said SOs are not good enough but I did say as there isa store for them there should be a store for IOs then the prices on the market will be level out to a stable reasonable price while if players want to pay more can just go get it from another player as you can still get SOs on the market but they aint no billions of dollars. why? because you can go get them at a reasonable price elsewhere for the most part.
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2. Fair shakes and prices are generated by the players. I got a Ragnarok Triple for 100 millionish, more or less, redside the other day. I just placed a bid and was patient. The key thing is, you really need to be 50 to generate large inf in this game, outside of cashing in Merits. On top of that, each player has a chance to get random rolls, random drops, selling their stuff...
3. As for your (somewhat confusing) point about lowest sale price going first, in this event I believe a RNG assigns the sale when people are tied, or it might go in first listed to last out, not too sure. But unless there is an extreme glut of items, you should be able to sell for something...
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I'm not sure what of the following doesn't quite add up, so I'd like someone to help point out to me what's wrong with this:
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| I want ultra-rare items to be available for everyone at a low price, so that everyone could buy them instantly should they want them. |
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
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Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Yeah, people are like that. But I post in the off chance that even just one person could change his ways... |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I believe you'll find that most, if not all, of the folks who want the market "fixed" disagree vehemently with this perspective.
They argue that a video game should not require "investment" of time and/or effort, because that's not fun. This despite the fact that, you know, basically every mainstream, subscription-based MMO (and a lot of the free ones) are fundamentally designed around that concept of (average) time investment to make X progress. That's usually conveniently ignored, because some of the other things you do that require time/effort investment are considered acceptable levels of investment, while anything that's over the player in question's tolerance is "broken". |
What I find particularly amusing is during this time they'd have to spend to get all the high end stuff, they'd be, well, playing the game. And if they don't find that fun, why are they even subscibed? Do they seriously think the game plays significantly differently with purples?
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Then there's always the thing that you often end up with better builds if you use uncommon and rare sets intelligently rather than just pour purple IOs into your build in order to make it teh ubah. |
Originally Posted by PhroX
Do they seriously think the game plays significantly differently with purples?
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Oh, and it doesn't cost even nearly as much that way.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Heh, yeah, the scrapper I mentioned above would only really fit 1 purple set into her build - replacing a set of crushing impacts with...the melee damage purple. I forget what it's called. Shows how much I care about Purples eh? Other than that, I need my various positional defense boosts. And even that one purple wouldn't give me a significant boost. I'll probably eventually get round to doing that, as well as getting the last 2 LotG+rechs I could fit in, but frankly, I'd rather spend the ~200m inf each of the latter would cost on tooling up another char with a good solid build...
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Originally Posted by DSorrow
Then there's always the thing that you often end up with better builds if you use uncommon and rare sets intelligently rather than just pour purple IOs into your build in order to make it teh ubah.
Oh, and it doesn't cost even nearly as much that way. |
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"Fair" in this game is when a buyer is willing to meet or exceed what a seller is willing to take for the item.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
but I would like to see the player base get a fair shake and a fair price.
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Nobody is forcing the buyer to pay that much. Nobody is forcing the seller to take less.
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| I think it's messed up with many of the prices and with really no alternative. |
For salvage, this is through random drops, AE rolls and AE spec buys.
For recipes, this is through random drops, AE rolls, Merit Rolls and Merit spec buys.
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| and no the seller with the lowest selling price dont always get the sale or then, nothing I put on the market I put for $1 would not sell for over the listed price sometimes when it's not the only one. |
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| but I did say as there isa store for them there should be a store for IOs |
There IS a store for uncommon to rare IOs. The merit vendor.
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The only reason my current build has purples is because I bought them during i12, back when prices were FAR lower. I only recently (just before i17 dropped, burning a respec) salvaged them out of my original build.|
Originally Posted by PhroX
Heh, yeah, the scrapper I mentioned above would only really fit 1 purple set into her build - replacing a set of crushing impacts with...the melee damage purple. I forget what it's called. Shows how much I care about Purples eh? Other than that, I need my various positional defense boosts. And even that one purple wouldn't give me a significant boost. I'll probably eventually get round to doing that, as well as getting the last 2 LotG+rechs I could fit in, but frankly, I'd rather spend the ~200m inf each of the latter would cost on tooling up another char with a good solid build...
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And I've had LOTG +Recharges come through on merit rolls. I didn't equip them. Because my build is currently in my comfort zone as far as end management is concerned. More would lower my defense values and upset my timing.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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This is getting uncomfortably close to the "compare/contrast" rule, but I think it's a relevant point.|
Originally Posted by Young_Tutor
As opposed to WOW, where you literally are unable to participate in some content if your gear score isn't high enough? I'm with Carnifax, I've never seen that happen in COX and can't imagine any scenario in the game that would actually *require* a full team of purpled-out heros.
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And the fact is, this isn't the case. The only "literally can't" I can think of is that a very badly geared character can't use the random dungeon finder to get into a couple of specific instances. Apart from that, I've had characters that weren't qualified for some of the entry-level content get taken through ICC25 (third-from-hardest in the game at the time) by people who were well-geared and had a couple of openings in a 25-man team. There's also the guild <Undergeared> who have been clearing raids without any epic gear at all, and last I heard they were 6/12 ICC.
There's a huge difference between what pugs can do and what organized people who have chosen to cooperate on content can do. Furthermore, the content that's restricted like that, well... Yes, it's the gateway to more of that same content, but there frankly isn't that much content like that. There's bazillions of other things to do. Not everyone in WoW raids.
And finally, while I'm correcting things, I'd point out that some of the very best gear in WoW can be purchased. For oodles of money. Which a lot of people have a very hard time coming up with. There are similar complaints about the "broken" market, even. :P
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Fair enough. That's hilarious about <Undergeared>. And sure, you can get some great stuff on the AH in WOW. But much of the "best" stuff you can't. I *was* thinking about the random dungeon finder . . . but I overstated the case, that's only true for the so-called "casual player". Someone with access to a savvy and dedicated guild can accomplish a lot more.|
Originally Posted by seebs
This is getting uncomfortably close to the "compare/contrast" rule, but I think it's a relevant point.
And the fact is, this isn't the case. The only "literally can't" I can think of is that a very badly geared character can't use the random dungeon finder to get into a couple of specific instances. Apart from that, I've had characters that weren't qualified for some of the entry-level content get taken through ICC25 (third-from-hardest in the game at the time) by people who were well-geared and had a couple of openings in a 25-man team. There's also the guild <Undergeared> who have been clearing raids without any epic gear at all, and last I heard they were 6/12 ICC. There's a huge difference between what pugs can do and what organized people who have chosen to cooperate on content can do. Furthermore, the content that's restricted like that, well... Yes, it's the gateway to more of that same content, but there frankly isn't that much content like that. There's bazillions of other things to do. Not everyone in WoW raids. And finally, while I'm correcting things, I'd point out that some of the very best gear in WoW can be purchased. For oodles of money. Which a lot of people have a very hard time coming up with. There are similar complaints about the "broken" market, even. :P |
That said, in COX someone with the support of a savvy and dedicated SG can accomplish a lot, too. If you have folks who can solo +4/x8 missions and folks who routinely run fast TFs who are willing to carry you along, you'll have *no* influence woes. You'll have absolutely no problem earning enough influence to get purples.
The difference is that in COX you don't actually need access to a SG, you just need the knowledge and willingness to put it into practice.
I hope they fix the bloody thing one way or another.
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