Anyone seen this? New expansion?
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2008-08-09 10:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm not sure why game studioes don't do much payed for content if it helps move the game forward.
Freebies are all nice and fine, but patience isn't my strong side 
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Freebies can be done in bits and pieces, so they can essentially be released faster.
If you're having to pay real money for an expansion, you generally expect it to contain a lot of content and be well tested and bug free. Hence paid expansions take huge amounts of development time and come out at a slow rate.
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Well, that depends largely on the eye of the beholder. CoX has been going on how many years now? Roughly Five right?
With CoV being the only sort of "expansion" to get, and that was also being marketed as a stand alone game.
Meanwhile, EverQuest 2 is on it's 4th expansion payed for expansion.
Now I realize that Cryptic may not have had a developer powerhouse backing them up, but hopefully a similar approach can be taken in Champions Online, and the other titles they are working on. Both to keep a steady subscriber base, but also to get content released faster.
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But daddy isn't holding my hand at all atm. The arcs are what they are, and I enjoy them for that fact. Turning, say, Peter Themari's arc into [SPOILER]
do you a) take pryss out, or b) tell her the truth and beat the snot out of thermai, or c) do nothing and have a cup of tea, would *totally* cheapen it for me. Did you ever use to read those adventure books? 'did you eat the melon? turn to page 98, if you didn't and fought the wolves, turn to page 4...
Are their stories comparable to great works of fiction that don't give you a choice of outcome. I know that's subjective, but I'm pretty sure that one of those is far more popular and renowned than the other
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This is the impression I get. I like CoX because it's like reading a book/comic/watching a film. I want to be able to play the game without worrying about making the "wrong choice" Going Rogue is a great idea but I'd rather it was an arc that can be done (or not) depending on whether you want to.
I want to play a comic book, not write it. And, while I'm all for new ATs; "City of Not-quite-heroes-but-not-really-evil-villains-either" just doesn't float my boat.
Sorry NC, but mission creator, power customisation and new zones are great - I just don't want anything to do with your "moral compass".
And yes - I think that it may be enough to push me away from the game. (But before anyone thinks I'm flamebaiting I promise it's not meant to be like that - just an emphasis about how strongly I feel)
Now, if you agree with this post go to page 43
If you disagree with the post go to page 20
If you really couldn't give a monkey's go to page twelfty squillion.
Ethan
xxx Ethan xxx
Yes, I'm one of those sad folk on twitter!
"Do not underestimate the power of Shiny�" - Mothers_Love
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With CoV being the only sort of "expansion" to get, and that was also being marketed as a stand alone game.
Meanwhile, EverQuest 2 is on it's 4th expansion payed for expansion.
[/ QUOTE ]I really doubt most CoH players want the game to adopt the EQ business model.
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Actually I often felt ME 'tricked' me into doing things I hadn't planned. I often chose a response when talking to someone based on the text example of what I was going to say only for the words that came out of my mouth to bare little if any relation to the tone of the example, which would lead the conversation off on a tangent to where I wanted it to go.
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Except for, y'know, the game making it pretty clear that the lowest options on the right were confrontational or pushy, with the ones on the left being expositionary in nature. They never said the dialogue you could choose was specific; it only set the tone of your response.
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Weird. I never picked up on that all the time I was playing!
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Baldur's Gate was similar - option 1 was almost always the right option, and option 3 was almost always the evil option, while option 2 was neutral.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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But daddy isn't holding my hand at all atm. The arcs are what they are, and I enjoy them for that fact. Turning, say, Peter Themari's arc into [SPOILER]
do you a) take pryss out, or b) tell her the truth and beat the snot out of thermai, or c) do nothing and have a cup of tea, would *totally* cheapen it for me. Did you ever use to read those adventure books? 'did you eat the melon? turn to page 98, if you didn't and fought the wolves, turn to page 4...
Are their stories comparable to great works of fiction that don't give you a choice of outcome. I know that's subjective, but I'm pretty sure that one of those is far more popular and renowned than the other
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This is the impression I get. I like CoX because it's like reading a book/comic/watching a film. I want to be able to play the game without worrying about making the "wrong choice" Going Rogue is a great idea but I'd rather it was an arc that can be done (or not) depending on whether you want to.
I want to play a comic book, not write it. And, while I'm all for new ATs; "City of Not-quite-heroes-but-not-really-evil-villains-either" just doesn't float my boat.
Sorry NC, but mission creator, power customisation and new zones are great - I just don't want anything to do with your "moral compass".
And yes - I think that it may be enough to push me away from the game.
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Do you really mean that you've never ever done a mission or arc where you've found yourself wishing you were able to do it in a different way?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Well personally the moral compass is a nice idea, I like being able to choice a nicer or more naughty option then currently, especially when playing villain side.
EU Global: @Night Druid
Little Squeak: Little Squeak talked to Me and Me said that Me is Me when Me thinks of me and Me is Me's name
Toxic Glow: I was tryin' ta teach her not ta refer ta herself in the third person, an it backfired
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I want to play a comic book, not write it. And, while I'm all for new ATs; "City of Not-quite-heroes-but-not-really-evil-villains-either" just doesn't float my boat.
Sorry NC, but mission creator, power customisation and new zones are great - I just don't want anything to do with your "moral compass".
And yes - I think that it may be enough to push me away from the game.
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There is an irony to what you are saying you know. It's easy to be a hero in this game because you dont have the choice NOT to be. (I'm referring to an alt you actually play on CoH.)
As someone who likes to play a comic book, wouldnt it be more involving if you actually have to make certain decisions, avoid temptations to steer you away from the dark side?
Isn't it more heroic to make the right choice ratherthan be a hero because there is no choice at all?
And on your last point, why throw away an entire game just because they introduce something that you can ignore simply by playing the way youve always played in the first place?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
All these moral choices can do is, y'know, offer choice.
Unless Nor Cal deliberately try to obfuscate the intention of a mission objective ("oh lols, sorry you saved that guy but it was actually evil ;D"), I don't think we have anything to worry about. We're massively railroaded as things stand now; I don't see how alternate options, on top of the current system, are bad.
I have been wanting (pushing?) for Going Rogue ever since I played the CoV beta (EU), at one point it was my only reason to return (but CoX is still better than WoW 
). I have always preferred the good vs evil character selection, everyone starts off the same and becomes who they are through their actions/inactions.
As such if such a system were to be added to CoX I'm thinking that it is such a fundamental change it would almost have to be CoH2 rather than i15 (or something). You'd need two or more bottom level zones, the current starting zones don't offer enough choice to make anything of, I'd say two zones from 1-15. Each would need 20-30 contacts based on level, origin and eventually alignment.
The rest of the game would be much the same but with the addition of various contacts that give neutral missions, no idea how they'd work, probably on the lines of the current paper missions. Hopefully any time you move from good to evil or back you get the point where you cannot talk to the contacts that will allow you to become good with the original side and have to use the neutral contacts to do missions that raise your good/bad standings.
As for the heroes and villains that hold true to their side, personally I'd expect its only them that unlock the spying type missions. They are held in great esteem by their respective bosses, and when they fall from grace they do so with their superior's full support so that they can work behind the lines.
Ultimately a 'Moral Compass' added to the game would give it something that IMO all MMOs currently lack, I don't know if CO or DCO is planning a similar system, though IIRC CO is not planning on shipping with villains so probably not. WoW does do something similar with the Aldor/Scryer faction grinds, but as this is more of an addon to the basic experience its not what might be called essential.
Still as mentioned I'd be happy to pay for full game cost expansion/stand alone boxes that include this functionality (even if it is markedly different from what I said above thats just how I'd do it).
It never ceases to amaze me how the human mind works. What we have here is a marketing survey with a range of hypothetical game features each described in just a (relative) handful of words. How anyone can argue so vehemently on a positive or negative viewpoint of the impact of any of these hypothetical features on the game, at this stage, boggles my mind.
It's a survey. The point is to gather information based on what is asked in the survey. Not what the survey taker assumes/fears/hopes might happen (either positive or negative). Having said that, though, the discussion here has been interesting to read during my days off .
At least it's given a good view on how people feel about a moral compass feature!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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It never ceases to amaze me how the human mind works. What we have here is a marketing survey with a range of hypothetical game features each described in just a (relative) handful of words. How anyone can argue so vehemently on a positive or negative viewpoint of the impact of any of these hypothetical features on the game, at this stage, boggles my mind.
It's a survey. The point is to gather information based on what is asked in the survey. Not what the survey taker assumes/fears/hopes might happen (either positive or negative). Having said that, though, the discussion here has been interesting to read during my days off .
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How is "outer space" still hypothetical? We already filled in a survey about it. There's even in-game half build launch pads in for it.
The expansion sounds like a nice idea, but to be honest I'm pretty disappointed they're still just talking about some of the stuff here. I'd have expected some of it in the next issue or 2.
Unless its a cunning ruse to throw us off track of course...
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How is "outer space" still hypothetical? We already filled in a survey about it. There's even in-game half build launch pads in for it.
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those lazy idiots haven't made ANY progress in the last few issues now
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This is the impression I get. I like CoX because it's like reading a book/comic/watching a film. I want to be able to play the game without worrying about making the "wrong choice" Going Rogue is a great idea but I'd rather it was an arc that can be done (or not) depending on whether you want to.
I want to play a comic book, not write it. And, while I'm all for new ATs; "City of Not-quite-heroes-but-not-really-evil-villains-either" just doesn't float my boat.
Sorry NC, but mission creator, power customisation and new zones are great - I just don't want anything to do with your "moral compass".
And yes - I think that it may be enough to push me away from the game.
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Do you really mean that you've never ever done a mission or arc where you've found yourself wishing you were able to do it in a different way?
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Thanks for your reply Golden Girl
No - I'm not saying that I've never thought that an ending could use a little more "oomph", but then again I've never thought - in the middle of the Westin Phipps Arc [Probably the most discussed CoV Spoiler ever ahead...!] "If only I could save these Freaks, maybe help teach them the error of their ways..." And the reason I've never thought that? Because I'm playing a Villain! [end of Spoiler]
If I wanted to take my villain across to Paragon City for anything other than panic and mayhem (maybe she has a crisis of conscience after the Westin thing) then she can go to a completely seperate contact and "confess", take her penance and then move across.
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I want to play a comic book, not write it. And, while I'm all for new ATs; "City of Not-quite-heroes-but-not-really-evil-villains-either" just doesn't float my boat.
Sorry NC, but mission creator, power customisation and new zones are great - I just don't want anything to do with your "moral compass".
And yes - I think that it may be enough to push me away from the game.
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There is an irony to what you are saying you know. It's easy to be a hero in this game because you dont have the choice NOT to be. (I'm referring to an alt you actually play on CoH.)
As someone who likes to play a comic book, wouldnt it be more involving if you actually have to make certain decisions, avoid temptations to steer you away from the dark side?
Isn't it more heroic to make the right choice ratherthan be a hero because there is no choice at all?
And on your last point, why throw away an entire game just because they introduce something that you can ignore simply by playing the way youve always played in the first place?
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Hi Lionsbane
I'm afraid I can't see the irony here. If I read a comic book/novel/or watch a film I can't change the outcome - that doesn't spoil the immersion or destroy the story, and the fact that millions of comics/books/movies are still selling world wide suggests that a lot of people feel the same.
That's why I like CoH, as you said - it's easy to be a hero - and as a casual player one of the main things I look for in a game is ease of use. I've been playing CoX for over 3 years BECAUSE it's easy. I tried WoW for a couple of weeks but couldn't get away with it - it was based on a hugely established economy and I couldn't even break in... Then I tried LOTRO which was too fiddly.
CoX has always appealed to the casual gamer because it's so easy, and I think anything they add that muddies that simplicity - without making it optional - may hurt this side of the game.
And to answer the "why throw away?" question - because I can't play the game the same way that I always have. I'd need to double check the answers to all the story arcs I play. And If I decide that I don't WANT to read the story, I just want to blast through contacts hitting 'next' each time - I can't, because I have to make a decision.
I'm not saying that Going Rogue is a bad thing, nor am I saying that I wouldn't use it if it came out. I'm saying that the "moral compass" is too much of a fiddle on being added to a wonderfully simple game. That's what would drive me away. And it's not a threat and I'm not foolish enough to thing that the Devs or the Community team are reading this thinking "Oh noes! - Ethan's thinking of going - we must stop the development of the morality compass" - I'm absolutely aware that my money is a drop in the ocean for NCNC, but I wouldn't be playing the same game anymore.
I'm afraid I can't remember who said it - but I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread - KISS, Keep it simple silly!
xxx Ethan xxx
Yes, I'm one of those sad folk on twitter!
"Do not underestimate the power of Shiny�" - Mothers_Love
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Ten Universal Enhancement Slots are available to be earned in the expansion, and each one has the potential of adding significant power to the character, essentially bringing them to a hypothetical "Level 60" once they have earned all ten slots.
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This worries me a great deal.
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me to, i dont want COH to gain a level cap raise. So not sure how this will work. 
@Snow.
Defiant: Snow + many other alts
Arc ID 61069
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Ten Universal Enhancement Slots are available to be earned in the expansion, and each one has the potential of adding significant power to the character, essentially bringing them to a hypothetical "Level 60" once they have earned all ten slots.
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This worries me a great deal.
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me to, i dont want COH to gain a level cap raise. So not sure how this will work.
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At least its something for level 50s to do.
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How is "outer space" still hypothetical? We already filled in a survey about it. There's even in-game half build launch pads in for it.
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those lazy idiots haven't made ANY progress in the last few issues now
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Thats because it got axed when most of the development team got the chop after issue 7.
I really should do something about this signature.
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At least its something for level 50s to do.
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True, even tho i have plenty still to do on my 50s
@Snow.
Defiant: Snow + many other alts
Arc ID 61069
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Ten Universal Enhancement Slots are available to be earned in the expansion, and each one has the potential of adding significant power to the character, essentially bringing them to a hypothetical "Level 60" once they have earned all ten slots.
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This worries me a great deal.
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me to, i dont want COH to gain a level cap raise. So not sure how this will work.
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I expect that when you earned your slot, you could slot it for damage, giving you a universal damage buff, accuracy, for a universal accuracy buff, Heal, for a max hp buff etc.
The real problem with this is that since you remain level 50 the mobs you are fighting won't get tougher with you, so you would also need to add higher difficulty settings to make this work.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I've never thought - in the middle of the Westin Phipps Arc [Probably the most discussed CoV Spoiler ever ahead...!] "If only I could save these Freaks, maybe help teach them the error of their ways..." And the reason I've never thought that? Because I'm playing a Villain! [end of Spoiler]
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My brute wanted to kill Phipps at the end of that arc; if I had been offered the chance to turn him over to Longbow, or deliberately fail his missions, I would have done; but I'd preferred to have beaten him to a bloody pulp to be honest.
I'm not sure where that would put me on a shades-of-grey-o-meter!
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How is "outer space" still hypothetical? We already filled in a survey about it. There's even in-game half build launch pads in for it.
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those lazy idiots haven't made ANY progress in the last few issues now
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Thats because it got axed when most of the development team got the chop after issue 7.
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Someone forgot to tell the guys down at the launchpad. They're still slogging away at it.
Survey or not, the only thing that scares my is the irreversibility issue. You have to choose switching sides or not, if you don't you get rewards, new content an possibly a badge; if you do, you get access to the other side and possibly new badges. A reward for not exploring new contents/the other side? As badge-hunter, that scares me. I'd like to experience the other side, without missing rewards/contents/badges for doing so, and the possibility of coming back to my alignement.
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I'm afraid I can't see the irony here. If I read a comic book/novel/or watch a film I can't change the outcome - that doesn't spoil the immersion or destroy the story, and the fact that millions of comics/books/movies are still selling world wide suggests that a lot of people feel the same.
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Fair... except:
Well, first off, you aren't playing a movie, you're playing an interactive computer game. More than that, you're playing what some people refer to as a roleplaying game (not me, I know what a roleplaying game is, and MMORPGs arent them, anyway...). The very essence of RPGs is that you can affect the outcome.
Second, don't you ever sit through a movie thinking "why is that character being so utterly dim?" and wishing you could point out to them that even with the evidence they have it's bleedin' obvious that their best friend is the villain? I'm saying this, and I don't see surprise twists (except in M Night Shamalamadingdon movies because he's forgotten what 'surprise' means) because I like going to see movies to just sit there and watch. But when you sit watching and something that's supposed to be a surprise happens and it isn't, don't you kind of wish you could step in and rewrite the script?
Maybe not, but that's why I play roleplaying games, even the computer ones.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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It never ceases to amaze me how the human mind works.
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I've mostly stopped being amazed. I don't think anything that happens on a forum has amazed me in... oh, two years or so.
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What we have here is a marketing survey with a range of hypothetical game features each described in just a (relative) handful of words.
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Well, the purpose of a marketing survey is generally to confirm ideas which are already planned, or reject ones that were already thought to be a no-go. They are designed to garner opinion, and you've got opinion.
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How anyone can argue so vehemently on a positive or negative viewpoint of the impact of any of these hypothetical features on the game, at this stage, boggles my mind.
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Some of these concepts, the moral compass being the most obvious, radically alter the concept of how the game is played no matter how it is implemented. It's bound to provoke emotive responses and that's without it being posted on a forum.
Put a load of ideas in front of people passionate about the subject and you're bound to get speculation and evaluation, probably passionate speculation and evaluation.
So, no, not amazing at all. Quite expected, really.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Actually I often felt ME 'tricked' me into doing things I hadn't planned. I often chose a response when talking to someone based on the text example of what I was going to say only for the words that came out of my mouth to bare little if any relation to the tone of the example, which would lead the conversation off on a tangent to where I wanted it to go.
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Except for, y'know, the game making it pretty clear that the lowest options on the right were confrontational or pushy, with the ones on the left being expositionary in nature. They never said the dialogue you could choose was specific; it only set the tone of your response.
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Weird. I never picked up on that all the time I was playing!