Anyone seen this? New expansion?
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2008-08-09 10:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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This is the impression I get. I like CoX because it's like reading a book/comic/watching a film. I want to be able to play the game without worrying about making the "wrong choice" Going Rogue is a great idea but I'd rather it was an arc that can be done (or not) depending on whether you want to.
I want to play a comic book, not write it. And, while I'm all for new ATs; "City of Not-quite-heroes-but-not-really-evil-villains-either" just doesn't float my boat.
Sorry NC, but mission creator, power customisation and new zones are great - I just don't want anything to do with your "moral compass".
And yes - I think that it may be enough to push me away from the game.
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Do you really mean that you've never ever done a mission or arc where you've found yourself wishing you were able to do it in a different way?
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Thanks for your reply Golden Girl
No - I'm not saying that I've never thought that an ending could use a little more "oomph", but then again I've never thought - in the middle of the Westin Phipps Arc [Probably the most discussed CoV Spoiler ever ahead...!] "If only I could save these Freaks, maybe help teach them the error of their ways..." And the reason I've never thought that? Because I'm playing a Villain! [end of Spoiler]
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Yes, but there are different types of Villains - and Heroes.
A Villain doesn't have to be a monster that follows every order without question - there can be Villains who sometimes feel guilty for their actions, or Villains who have their own twisted moral code, or Villains who serve no one but themselves, and would attempt to use every mission to gain advantages for themselves, even if it meant going against the contacts wishes or orders.
Like that Westin Phipps arc, for example - you can carry out his orders to the letter if you want to, but wouldn't it be good if players also had the option of telling the teacher that the authorities were on to her, but that you could arrange it so that she and her Freaks got to safety - but only on condition that she got the Freaks to help you first with some other mission, like a very large heist, where you'd need the extra manpower.
That would give an alternative ending mission for the arc, and once that was done, and you return to Westin Phipps, you can then either lie, and say the teacher got away (and continue to get missions from him), or tell him what you'd done and laugh in his face (he no longer gives you misisons, but a new contact is opened up as a result of the heist you did with the Freaks).
So instead of just following orders no matter what, you're given the choice of following orders, screwing over your contact but lying about it, or screwing over your contact and getting a new one instead.
You're still being evil and doing evil things, but you're able to choose the level of evil, instead of being a monster the whole time.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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It never ceases to amaze me how the human mind works. What we have here is a marketing survey with a range of hypothetical game features each described in just a (relative) handful of words. How anyone can argue so vehemently on a positive or negative viewpoint of the impact of any of these hypothetical features on the game, at this stage, boggles my mind. 
It's a survey. The point is to gather information based on what is asked in the survey. Not what the survey taker assumes/fears/hopes might happen (either positive or negative). Having said that, though, the discussion here has been interesting to read during my days off 
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True but got to say if there is even the slighest chance of content like this being added, I'd much prefer people jump around discussing it, at least then the devs know we are enthused by it. If everyone just turned round and ignored it the chances of it being added are far slimmer. IMO.
Plus, we have so little I13 info to discuss that we're turning to this 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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How is "outer space" still hypothetical? We already filled in a survey about it. There's even in-game half build launch pads in for it.
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those lazy idiots haven't made ANY progress in the last few issues now
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Thats because it got axed when most of the development team got the chop after issue 7.
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Because of the hash they (he) made of things BEFORE issue 7.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
Ok just ummm... wow
There's a lot of hot and botheredness going on there and I couldn't read every single post but clearly there's an apparently small minority who have serious, legitimate concerns.
Sure it's new content and that's generally a good thing. But giving choices especially based around some as yet undefined "moral compass" can be a real concern.
One of the big problems is we don't actually know what's coming, so thus far everything is speculation. However, NCNC have shown us by their track record that: 1) They rarely (if ever) sell us a pup when it comes to CoX. Sure they could have done some things differently but their outcomes have generally been good for the game. 2) NCNC are far more open to listening to the fan base and giving it what it wants. "Going Rogue" has been one of the big fan desires for a long time
So, somehow NCNC are likely to be implementing this at some stage.
What nobody seems to have recognized so far is that Matt Miller is pretty good at delivering what the players want from a different angle to general expectations.
Conclusion: Let's not get too hot under the collar without knowing exactly what's on the cards (unless you're a fire based AT :P )
Thelonious Monk
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What nobody seems to have recognized so far is that Matt Miller is pretty good at delivering what the players want from a different angle to general expectations.
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Except, it has to be said, a more challenging game. We've got loads of new ways to make our characters stronger and to level faster but we're still fighting the same rinse-and-repeat enemies we were fighting 3 or 4 years ago.
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What nobody seems to have recognized so far is that Matt Miller is pretty good at delivering what the players want from a different angle to general expectations.
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Except, it has to be said, a more challenging game. We've got loads of new ways to make our characters stronger and to level faster but we're still fighting the same rinse-and-repeat enemies we were fighting 3 or 4 years ago.
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Not so sure I agree. Cimerora TF, Mothership Raids, MoSTF etc are all far more challenging, but also very difficult to complete successfully with a PuG so require a lot more planning.
Sure, some things have become easier, XP smoothing for example, but that's a prelude to other things. It wasn't done "just for the hell of it" and I think you need to give NCNC a chance to show you what they can do before damning them out of hand
(added to which, "Give us a more challenging game" is NOT top of the player wants list )
Thelonious Monk
Well lets just hope its not some other producer looking to borrow ideas from the COX forums and incorporate them into there game!
I mean its not like thats ever happened before.
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However, NCNC have shown us by their track record that
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and I think you need to give NCNC a chance to show you what they can do before damning them out of hand
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You'd do well in Orwell's dystopia... doublethink for the win!
NCNC don't really have a track record yet, this will make or break it so they need to get it right. You're right that we don't really know what's coming, that's pretty much what GhostRaptor was saying. OTOH, we can make (un)educated guesses and then gripe about them as if they were facts like usual and from this it should be possible for NCNC to see what concerns players (fairly loyal, passionate players) have regarding those potential future paths. Yes, we should not cry DOOM until we have real, solid details, but this is 'da intarwebz' and that's how people express themselves. By now, I'd hope that companies have got the hang of trying to pick the legitimate concerns from the dross. If I were NCNC, I'd be picking over threads like this fairly carefully, along with the survey results, to figure out whether to implement specific features and in what way. (Sadly, I'm not NCNC, if I was, I'd have an income. 
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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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NCNC don't really have a track record yet,
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Well, it's still the old team that has been working on the game for years, so it may not be "NorCal" but the "DevTeam".
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If I were NCNC, I'd be picking over threads like this fairly carefully, along with the survey results, to figure out whether to implement specific features and in what way.
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Trust me, they / we do!
The new Branching dialogue facilitates the "Moral compass" and I, for one, am looking forward to it!
Let's face it, if you're a super-powered being in the rogue isles you have to at least look like a villain. If you don't you last less than 30 seconds. Sure you have to rob the occasional bank here and there, but if it's to pay for your chars sibling's hospital bills so be it. Left overs can be laundered into education and health right under Recluse's snubby nose.
The thought of having a grey area between heroes and villains, and being able to oscillate between the two is something really new for MMO's. Hopefully it'll allow for characters to move between Paragon and the rogue isles a lot easier without getting ganked for no reason other than you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. My only hope is that the branching dialogue is included in the mission generator. That'll allow us players to create some truly memorable story-lines.
Not to mention that a lot of the heroes act more like villains than most of the villains do!
Union: @Ban-Sidhe
Very interesting, but what I'm slowly wondering about is, are we down to one Issue per year now?
I know, it sounds like a rant but it's not.
I'm really just wondering if we are going to see I13 this year.
I slowly start to doubt that.
So far no announcements yet and even if they announce it now, it will take them some to start closed beta testing. After that we can expect some open beta testing before it goes life.
Considering that I13 is supposed to be a large Issue, I can't see it being released this year. Which I find a bit dissapointing (okay little rant here, but I guess that's normal to be a bit dissapointed). Though, what frightens me more then a I13 in 2009 is a rushed I13 in 2008.
Anyway, enough of I13. With CO and DCUO it's only normal that CoH/CoV has to evolve. Either by making a sequel or making the current game more worthwile to play.
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NCNC don't really have a track record yet,
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Well, it's still the old team that has been working on the game for years, so it may not be "NorCal" but the "DevTeam".
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Well, yes, but I'm a 'developer' and I know that 'management' has as much to do with this as the actual development team. I have liked what has happened to the game while I was away (well, still not so sure about MoG, but that's details) and I like the general way the Midnighters plot line seems to be going. These were under the current development team, but I still think that this next Issue is going to set the tone for how people perceive CoX's development under "the new development house." It's as much about perception as reality, as with so much about public relations.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Very interesting, but what I'm slowly wondering about is, are we down to one Issue per year now?
I know, it sounds like a rant but it's not.
I'm really just wondering if we are going to see I13 this year.
I slowly start to doubt that.
So far no announcements yet and even if they announce it now, it will take them some to start closed beta testing. After that we can expect some open beta testing before it goes life.
Considering that I13 is supposed to be a large Issue, I can't see it being released this year. Which I find a bit dissapointing (okay little rant here, but I guess that's normal to be a bit dissapointed). Though, what frightens me more then a I13 in 2009 is a rushed I13 in 2008.
Anyway, enough of I13. With CO and DCUO it's only normal that CoH/CoV has to evolve. Either by making a sequel or making the current game more worthwile to play.
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It's over 3 months to the end of the year, which seems like plenty of time to get both closed and public beta thoroughly completed - even for a large issue. As far as announcements are concerned, they can delay those as long as they want without impacting on the actual release date in the slightest.
With that much time to go don't you think it's a but premature to start talking about "doubt" "disappointment" and being "frightened"?
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To me the most interesting part is suggesting that new alts would start as neutral and become heroes or villains through their actions, though probably in my case by the time I got to 50 I'd still be a damn neutral fence sitter.
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Well I'd imagine a Merc would stick right down the middle, depending on who paid the most. Then again, one might say that'd shift his morality meter anyway.
(And who's morals would it be based on anyway?)
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Valkryst suggested something like this a couple of weeks ago.
Original thread.
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Wonder how long ago the survey went out? And if it's been recently, does that prove that the devs do in fact read the boards?
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Lets hope so.
I like the sound of everything in that "survey", but then most of it was either suggested by the Devs themselves ages ago (Emmert re "City of Spies", or the last official survey for the space-station/moon zones) or by the playerbase continuously for the last 4 years (power customisation, "going rogue" & morality systems, new newbie content).
Even the universal slots don't worry me that much - ok, I don't PvP much, but would you guys still hate the universal slots if they had their own unique sets of IOs that would go into them, that could be randomly dropped throughout normal gameplay (not necessarily rare, either)? Would you still hate the universal slots if you could replace the need for Stamina by putting End Recovery IOs into those universal slots, allowing you to take extra powers instead of the fitness pool?
We knew NorCal needed to do something special with DCUO and CO on the horizon - if NCNC can deliver over half of the stuff on that list then I don't think they have anything to worry about. They'll just need a marketing push to drag in some new players (though DCUO and CO could also become a good way to drag new players into CoH/V too, if they grew bored of those games and wanted a superhero MMO that was deeper).
As for a paid expansion, I have no problem with that providing it had tons of content and features in it, way beyond what we'd expect in 2-3 issues (i.e. a year's worth) usually. Best of all, a paid expansion would put this game back on store shelves which could be marketed as a relaunch of the game if the expansion included the base CoH/V games in it.
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With that much time to go don't you think it's a but premature to start talking about "doubt" "disappointment" and being "frightened"?
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No, it's my personal opinion.
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With that much time to go don't you think it's a but premature to start talking about "doubt" "disappointment" and being "frightened"?
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Yeah, this ain't a WoW trial
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I really like morality systems if theyre done well like in KotoR as they add replay value, give weight/importance to your decisions and questing, and help to tell the story of your character. You can take a decidedly different progression through the game with different characters and the storyline/content adjusts accordingly. Plus its YOUR choice how to complete a mission, rather than just following a pre-determined morality/path through a linear story.
But I really hate morality systems if they're done poorly and purely amount to faction grinding (like in many other MMOs like EQ, DAoC, EQ2, WoW, etc) towards whatever flavour of rewards you're trying to get. Ive wasted so much time in other MMOs grinding mobs continuously for faction, because it was needed for a certain quest/reward, and it never fails to amaze me how developers think its realistic that, say, the Dwarves will forget/forgive that youve slain hundreds of their kinfolk just because you killed so many more of their enemy the Giants, or vice versa.
Good morality systems give you a chance to further differentiate your character from others. From a CoH/V perspective I wish that badges purely showed the story of your character and their progression through the game, rather than being more of a Pokemon-style "gotta catch 'em all" sub-game. At the moment only the CoV patron ones really do that, because you can only ever get 1 of the 4 patron badges (and yeah Im sure some badgehunters really hate that) - they show a definitive irreversible choice you made between 4 paths of content (and when patron pool respecs arrive thankfully well be able to make that choice purely based on the content/patrons and not from a gameplay/power perspective).
You know, I'd even like to see badge missions have multiple outcomes with a different badge awarded for each - the outcomes could be tied to morals as previously suggested (good, evil & neutral) - there could perhaps be a much less desirable badge title "awarded" for failing the mission, or no badge at all (I quite like Pithers arc CoV-side - you only get the Efficiency Expert badge if you dont fail any of his timed missions - and you cant ever repeat/flashback it).
Really I think it might be too early to say definitively whether you hate/like/fear the idea of a morality system in CoH/V until we know more about how the Devs would plan to implement it.
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What i would like to see is some kind of missions where the mobs inside are both good and evil.Uppon entering the mission the previous missions you have done to + or - reputation with said faction.These factions could have also allies where some reputation is gained there too due to "word of mouth"
Uppon entering these mission depending what you choose to fight or where you moral compass lies you end up in mission taking sides.Trying to remain neutral would lead to both factions in mission attacking you for being suspicious.
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Ok i know i took it too far but would love this kind of chaos and challenge and i think i just had a mini orgasm at the thought of such PvE
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Sounds good to me, if unlikely, but dont you like to farm? Wouldnt you just try to stay neutral on every mission so you had more mobs to farm for inf/drops? 
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What nobody seems to have recognized so far is that Matt Miller is pretty good at delivering what the players want from a different angle to general expectations.
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Except, it has to be said, a more challenging game. We've got loads of new ways to make our characters stronger and to level faster but we're still fighting the same rinse-and-repeat enemies we were fighting 3 or 4 years ago.
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Not so sure I agree. Cimerora TF, Mothership Raids, MoSTF etc are all far more challenging, but also very difficult to complete successfully with a PuG so require a lot more planning.
Sure, some things have become easier, XP smoothing for example, but that's a prelude to other things. It wasn't done "just for the hell of it" and I think you need to give NCNC a chance to show you what they can do before damning them out of hand
(added to which, "Give us a more challenging game" is NOT top of the player wants list )
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I'm not really damning them out of hand, I just wish they'd put as much thought into making enemies in normal, everyday missions more challenging and unpredictable as they do into making our progression through normal, everyday missions quicker and easier. By challenging I really mean a bit more variety in their behaviours which take a bit more variety in our tactics to overcome.
Having occasional mobs that retreat and call neighbouring spawns as reinforcements would be great. As would having spawns that draw players into "ambushes" through fighting withdrawals. Having the occasional, spawn that has unexpected powers and resistances. A sprinkling of taunt-resistant mobs in missions. Putting in more roaming spawns.
There's loads that could be done to keep us on our toes during missions, and much of it could be done for relatively little overhead. All the different improvements to our characters are great but, in the end, the better our characters become the less skill the game takes to play.
And I'm not just talking about needing more planning, or knowing the current tricks to get through tough TFs etc, I'm talking about a need for more mid-fight surprises that require a team to respond spontaneously to overcome.
I may be unique in this but I've always found the best fights are the ones that the team loses control of but manages to pull it all back together through real teamwork.
I'd like mobs were some of them ran off to get help, or help arrived if you didn't defeat them within a certain time.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
try not responding fast enough in an escourt mission. They tend to pile up a bit then. Depends on how many ambushes you were supposed to get on the way out.
They already run away. What's lacking is the insentive to chase them down since they don't go get help (as happens in WoW, for example). Running after them is going to get you mobbed, if you stand still they'll eventually come back.
Yes, I'd agree that would be a good addition to the mob tactics.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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We knew NorCal needed to do something special with DCUO and CO on the horizon - if NCNC can deliver over half of the stuff on that list then I don't think they have anything to worry about. [u] They'll just need a marketing push to drag in some new players [u]
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This has been discussed from time to time; I remember a recent thread questioning why there was a WoW announcement in the CoX wikia, and I also posted a few months ago that in my country (Spain) I could see lots of trials and different editions of WoW, but there were hardly any boxes of CoV on sale in game stores, and these boxes were the same edition I bought when CoV was released, no new editions nor updated content; I know there are restrictions on trial accounts because of the spammers and influence/infamy sellers, but it could be a good idea a massive merchandising and advertising campaign in order to raise the player base.
Proud Coleader of: Fuerza Letal (H), Liga de las Sombras (V), Legion del Fenix (H), Infernal Justice (H), and a happy member of GammaForce (H) and D.O.A. (V).
My alts: http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/13494
I think sending out batches of trial discs to retailers would help...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Retailers get to decide what to display, and they have limited shelf space...
I really should do something about this signature.
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How is "outer space" still hypothetical? We already filled in a survey about it. There's even in-game half build launch pads in for it.
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those lazy idiots haven't made ANY progress in the last few issues now
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I think the invasions have disrupted their schedule
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork