Anyone seen this? New expansion?
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2008-08-09 10:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
FYI i want the spy AT
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I wonder how a Spy AT would work?
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You going to roll one if available?
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Never in a billion years 
I was just wodnering how a spy, with the associations of infiltration and sneaking around, would fit into the all-action team dynamic we have right now.
For example, if there were infiltration missions, would that mena you'd need a Spy AT on the team to complete them?
There'd be no problem for soloing, of course - it's just that all the current ATs, even Stalkers, fit the pattern of open confrontation to achieve mission onjectives.
And there's also PvP to think of too - a Spy AT seems to be very much a PvE thing.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I see what you mean now.I think that those universal slots should be possible to use only in PvP and in content that locks in specific difficulty setting or that they are not displayed at all at info or some solution like this that will avoid this issue u describe.I have always been against Sets being displayed as well in info i mean there is really no point to it rather than people being picky based on info.
Dont mind me i just have major gripes with the lack of adjustment of game difficulty atm to match the current state of the game.
I have to admit that if those 10 slots are displayed in info might cause a form of discrepancy but then again its easy to just leave them outside the info so in pugs noone can tell who has what.
In PvP wont make much difference team wise.
I think i just like to moan constantly about the difficulty settings in upper game and AI scripting of encounters.Hope they work around this and give us some interesting tools to play with in PCC.
A form of end game encounter scripting would be friggin awsome.
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I was just wodnering how a spy, with the associations of infiltration and sneaking around, would fit into the all-action team dynamic we have right now.
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(And who's morals would it be based on anyway?)
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Oh, don't start that one again, please!
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It is actually a valid point. One of the things I basically hated about the NWN2 default campaign was their application of alignment shift. Their view of alignment simply wasn't mine and it was next to impossible to do anything even vaguely good without massively shifting toward Lawful and Good. They had two points on their alignment scale, LG and CE, and everything tended to push you towards one of those.
I'm not a great fan of 'Morality Meters'. For starters, they tend to be broken. I know of villain missions where you have the option of letting someone escape or killing them. Now, the morality scale will likely get adjusted to good if you let them escape, or evil if you kill them, but that's just plain wrong. I get my morality adjusted to good because I'm incompetent? The game can't know my intentions, it can only adjust the scale based on the results of the mission.
Equally, there are going to be heroes falling to the dark side because they messed up a few missions. I guess it means there would actually be consequences to failing some missions for a change, which would be nice, but a system like this doesn't reward heroic failure unless it is massively complex, which means long term development, and we won't see the results for a long time.
I'm okay to wait a bit for PCC, but if the choice is some half-baked morality system and PCC in a couple of months, or something which the devs think is great and I'll think sucks in a year, I'd rather they just forgot the morality system entirely.
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I think it'll take a lot more than "a few missions" to become evil or good - it'd be a very long journey, with chances to turn back, even right up until the last.
For example, you decide to walk a darker path - you seek out morally neutral contacts, and start doing their missions, swinging your alignment from good to neutral - that opens up an evil contact, who will then give you missions that test your willingness to be evil.
Once you'd done enough of them, you'd be given a final test - like the classic "kill this person to prove your loyalty" secenario - if you do it, you're accepted as a Villain - if you back out, then you're stuck in neutral - the evil contact won't give you anymore missions as you're proved "weak" in their eyes, and the good contacts will reject you too because of your previous actions.
You'd then have to do neutral contact missions until you unlocked an alternative evil contact so you could finally take the plunge to evil, or unlock a good contact that would slowly lead you beck to redemption.
As for what morality the system would be based on - it'd be normal human morality - stuff like murder = evil, helping people = good.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I think it'll take a lot more than "a few missions" to become evil or good
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Erm, nope.
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Completely new low-level player experience/zones for new characters in which new characters do not begin a hero or villain, rather become one or the other through early gameplay
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Quite quickly it would seem
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helping people = good.
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Really? So if you save a bunch of people who are being attacked by the Skulls and they then blow up downtown Paragon the following week? You did good? Or doesn't it matter, since you did "good" in the here & now?
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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I think it'll take a lot more than "a few missions" to become evil or good
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Erm, nope.
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Completely new low-level player experience/zones for new characters in which new characters do not begin a hero or villain, rather become one or the other through early gameplay
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Quite quickly it would seem
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That's not the going rogue system - that's just a system of deciding what you want to be at the start.
Going rogue is switching sides, not deciding them when you start.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That's not the going rogue system - that's just a system of deciding what you want to be at the start.
Going rogue is switching sides, not deciding them when you start.
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Sorry, you didn't specify which one of the MANY (heh heh heh) options they were talking about 
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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That's not the going rogue system - that's just a system of deciding what you want to be at the start.
Going rogue is switching sides, not deciding them when you start.
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Sorry, you didn't specify which one of the MANY (heh heh heh) options they were talking about
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I think they'd also need a new starting zone for that system of deciding your alignment early on - like a 1-5 zone, so that by the time you were 5, you'd have done enough evil deeds to attract the attention of an Arachnos agent who'd take you to the Rogue Isles, or enough good deeds to attract the attention of a Longbow agent who'd take you to Paragon City - although, I'm not sure how it'd work if you did a mix of good and bad things.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I dont want the moral compass. I have over 300 hours in kotor 1, the bland kotor 2 and crappy jade empire and i still say no. I didnt buy cox to be a jedi or sith i just wanted a mmo based on comics.
Power customization will be an interesting one. If this gets implemented then surely they would have a little avatar demostrating the "new customization" of your attacks?
Curios as to what else would go into the new charater creation screen (as in options wise).
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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That's not the going rogue system - that's just a system of deciding what you want to be at the start.
Going rogue is switching sides, not deciding them when you start.
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Sorry, you didn't specify which one of the MANY (heh heh heh) options they were talking about
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I think they'd also need a new starting zone for that system of deciding your alignment early on - like a 1-5 zone, so that by the time you were 5, you'd have done enough evil deeds to attract the attention of an Arachnos agent who'd take you to the Rogue Isles, or enough good deeds to attract the attention of a Longbow agent who'd take you to Paragon City - although, I'm not sure how it'd work if you did a mix of good and bad things.
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Could just be as simle as choosing your starting contact in that zone.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I see what you mean now.I think that those universal slots should be possible to use only in PvP and in content that locks in specific difficulty setting or that they are not displayed at all at info or some solution like this that will avoid this issue u describe.I have always been against Sets being displayed as well in info i mean there is really no point to it rather than people being picky based on info.
Dont mind me i just have major gripes with the lack of adjustment of game difficulty atm to match the current state of the game.
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Agree with the post, especially the emboldened bits
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That's not the going rogue system - that's just a system of deciding what you want to be at the start.
Going rogue is switching sides, not deciding them when you start.
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Sorry, you didn't specify which one of the MANY (heh heh heh) options they were talking about
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I think they'd also need a new starting zone for that system of deciding your alignment early on - like a 1-5 zone, so that by the time you were 5, you'd have done enough evil deeds to attract the attention of an Arachnos agent who'd take you to the Rogue Isles, or enough good deeds to attract the attention of a Longbow agent who'd take you to Paragon City - although, I'm not sure how it'd work if you did a mix of good and bad things.
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Could just be as simle as choosing your starting contact in that zone.
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Or a third "walking-the-tightrope" contact...
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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I dont want the moral compass. I have over 300 hours in kotor 1, the bland kotor 2 and crappy jade empire and i still say no. I didnt buy cox to be a jedi or sith i just wanted a mmo based on comics.
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Superman, the Punisher and the Joker are all in comics - they have moral compasses that are different from each other.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That's not the going rogue system - that's just a system of deciding what you want to be at the start.
Going rogue is switching sides, not deciding them when you start.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, you didn't specify which one of the MANY (heh heh heh) options they were talking about
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I think they'd also need a new starting zone for that system of deciding your alignment early on - like a 1-5 zone, so that by the time you were 5, you'd have done enough evil deeds to attract the attention of an Arachnos agent who'd take you to the Rogue Isles, or enough good deeds to attract the attention of a Longbow agent who'd take you to Paragon City - although, I'm not sure how it'd work if you did a mix of good and bad things.
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Could just be as simle as choosing your starting contact in that zone.
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Or a third "walking-the-tightrope" contact...
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But that'd still have to either be in CoV or in CoH - unless, perhaps, a neutral player could access both sides of the game, and all the zones?
Evil enough to pass as a thug in the Rogue Isles, good enough to pass as a vigilante in Paragon City - and if you're alignment swung too far to evil, Longbow would mark you as a Villain and you'd lose access to the Hero zones, and if you swung too far to the good side, Arachnos would mark you as a Hero, adn you'd lose access to the Rogue Isles.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Really? So if you save a bunch of people who are being attacked by the Skulls and they then blow up downtown Paragon the following week? You did good? Or doesn't it matter, since you did "good" in the here & now?
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Don't bother, I've argued this with GG before, IIRC her reply goes along the lines of,
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You cannot be held responsible for the future actions of others.
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I dont want the moral compass. I have over 300 hours in kotor 1, the bland kotor 2 and crappy jade empire and i still say no. I didnt buy cox to be a jedi or sith i just wanted a mmo based on comics.
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Superman, the Punisher and the Joker are all in comics - they have moral compasses that are different from each other.
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Which is an aspect of their character. Something that is part of the lore and the mythology. Not a cliche'd game mechanic.
My main villain, on the NWN scale, is chaotic neutral. My main hero, Chaotic Good. I've written that into their bios, and keep it in mind when engrossed in playing them. I don't have a 'what you just did was good *pat on the head*' moment telling me so
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helping people = good.
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Really? So if you save a bunch of people who are being attacked by the Skulls and they then blow up downtown Paragon the following week? You did good? Or doesn't it matter, since you did "good" in the here & now?
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I mean helping normal people, not criminals.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I dont want the moral compass. I have over 300 hours in kotor 1, the bland kotor 2 and crappy jade empire and i still say no. I didnt buy cox to be a jedi or sith i just wanted a mmo based on comics.
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Superman, the Punisher and the Joker are all in comics - they have moral compasses that are different from each other.
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Which is an aspect of their character. Something that is part of the lore and the mythology. Not a cliche'd game mechanic.
My main villain, on the NWN scale, is chaotic neutral. My main hero, Chaotic Good. I've written that into their bios, and keep it in mind when engrossed in playing them. I don't have a 'what you just did was good *pat on the head*' moment telling me so
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So you wouldn't want missions with say, three different outcomes, that would allow you to play your avatar the way you'd written its bio?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
This whole good and bad was done in the 90's and spawned among things rob liefelds atrocities and ugly hair. More coop zones against a greater threat would be fun though.
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helping people = good.
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Really? So if you save a bunch of people who are being attacked by the Skulls and they then blow up downtown Paragon the following week? You did good? Or doesn't it matter, since you did "good" in the here & now?
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I mean helping normal people, not criminals.
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If i didn't know any better, i'd say that's a bit of flame baiting there GG.
Criminals can = people. There's always a reason for people turning to crime.
BUT I DIGRESS: shall we try and keep this on topic, and not veer into the ravine of GG one liners vs the world
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That's not the going rogue system - that's just a system of deciding what you want to be at the start.
Going rogue is switching sides, not deciding them when you start.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, you didn't specify which one of the MANY (heh heh heh) options they were talking about
[/ QUOTE ]
I think they'd also need a new starting zone for that system of deciding your alignment early on - like a 1-5 zone, so that by the time you were 5, you'd have done enough evil deeds to attract the attention of an Arachnos agent who'd take you to the Rogue Isles, or enough good deeds to attract the attention of a Longbow agent who'd take you to Paragon City - although, I'm not sure how it'd work if you did a mix of good and bad things.
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Could just be as simle as choosing your starting contact in that zone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or a third "walking-the-tightrope" contact...
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But that'd still have to either be in CoV or in CoH - unless, perhaps, a neutral player could access both sides of the game, and all the zones?
Evil enough to pass as a thug in the Rogue Isles, good enough to pass as a vigilante in Paragon City - and if you're alignment swung too far to evil, Longbow would mark you as a Villain and you'd lose access to the Hero zones, and if you swung too far to the good side, Arachnos would mark you as a Hero, adn you'd lose access to the Rogue Isles.
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Well with everybody being able to access both games now with just the one version (heroes or villains) then i pressume that there will be a serperate starting zone in which you can pick ANY AT and a choice of two contacts (just like the current version of the game).
Depending on which contact you pick, they send you on numerous missions before sending you off to either rogue isles/paragon city.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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This whole good and bad was done in the 90's and spawned among things rob liefelds atrocities and ugly hair. More coop zones against a greater threat would be fun though.
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I'm pretty sure the whole good and bad thing was done in comics a bit before the 90s...
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
A few points:
1) Me want mission editor baaaad!
2) Me willing to pay, as long as later on expansion not come free (at least, for a year)
3) Me not bothered about power customisation
4) Me intrigued by Spy AT. More details please. If you're thinking about it, I would like to know how it will be markedly different from the exisitng ATs - all of them
5) If new zones are planned (and it does sound remarkably like a paid expansion as opposed to an 'I've been here longer or I've farmed longer than you so I get more cool stuff' thing) please use some existing ones (Boomtown and Perez spring to mind) first before adding to the map. And a few more Villain zones so it evens up the 'need for travel powers' imbalance between CoV and CoH first.
6) Me want War Witch's brain for mission editor. At least for the dialogue and, if necessary, mob placement. Oh and level design if that's there too. Basically, bring on the Mission Editor and I will happily be your female dog