Tainted_Greek_EU

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Peronsally never understood the desire of two travel pools. But then again i don't pvp.

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Well in PvP mobility is everything Combination of SS/SJ/CJ/hurdle is essential to have unsupressed movement at all times.You know when you fire a power and after that cant jump around for a bit or run away. This in PvP is bad

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Thing is, you're going to hit each other anyway, so why don't you just stand toe-to-toe? Y'know, instead of looking like a pogo stick?

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Its exactly to avoid toe to toe and keep range.Also mobility allows things like +regen and +recovery come into play.

In many cases squishies need to keep moving to avoid being stationary for stalkers and blasters melee powers mainly.

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PvP can be fun, I've dipped in from time to time. But the fun is always, always spoiled by the appearance of one or more Stalkers. Ignoring for a second they can rip most non-Tanks in half by flicking a fingernail at them, placate followed by stealth and superspeed means it's virtually impossible to track and take them down unless you're constantly eating yellows on top of an impressive +Perc toggle.

Stalkers make PvP frustrating and pointless for non-Stalker Heroes, either solo or as part of a team. And that is mainly why I do not PvP.

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u can say the same for blasters. so all is equal

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Its not exactly equal.Wanna put it in balance scale?

Stalkers: Builds up,Unresisted HUGE spike damage,Tier 9's like overload etc etc,Heals,placate,criticals from hide,perception,Mez protection,KB protection in some sets,fear protection,psi res

Blaster: Aim,Bu,1 high damage blast 2 moderate that make the PvP attack chain, good epic powers,nukes,some decent hp with sets and accolades,Range,Knockback.

Stalkers are 100% viable solo even in beginners hands.Blaster needs skilled players to be really viable solo.

Its not equal is not comparable and its high time some people stop compare blasters to stalkers.

I am not saying stalkers are overpowered but they are definitely not equal or same as blasters.

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Well toggle dropping the travel power is no big deal because most pvpers got hurdle slotted making it hard to keep them in place even when all travel powers drop.

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So we classify hurdle (and sprint and others) as travel powers for this purpose.

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Well yeah but negating all travel powers with aura is overpowered.

sticking someone on follow basically turns the game for them into WoW.

Besides its better to have actually powers that can be used at proper moment and make it more tactical.Giving an aura will just result in all AT's going full kite mode and just not coming close which is very doable.

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Give all melee AT's (except stalkers) a power similar to glue arrow that can be negated only by a kinetic and i am happy imho will make melee very viable in pvp zones.

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How about giving Scrappers and Brutes a short-range aura that toggle-drops their current target's travel power? That still leave Tankers, but I think something else has to be done to make tankers viable anyway.

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Well toggle dropping the travel power is no big deal because most pvpers got hurdle slotted making it hard to keep them in place even when all travel powers drop.

A power that creates an unresisted effect like knockdown or snare would be perfect in my opinion and from what i experienced with melee classes in other mmo's. Especially knockdown would allow at least 3 hits and if you consider you could drop stuns and holds that some melee powers have as secondary effects would rock.Hell would even make hold/stun procs worth it in melee toons.

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This is a great suggestion in my opinion but there is a fundamental problem with it cause it has been proposed in past once more.

It goes against the whole MMO gaming experience where as you progress in game you get rewarded

The more experience you got the less powerful you are is kinda weird

However i wouldnt mind seeing how it would work in action first.

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No argument from me that it's counter-intuitive, TG. Just thought of a corrolary to this that would shift the balance in favour of trying to get your Rep high:

Assume the above system is in place. Then, once your Rep is at the 200 mark (or the 'Buff Cap' or whatever we want to call it) PvP kills have a probability of a recipe drop. If a new pool of recipes is made for 'PvP drops', as long as it's built right should give people a reason to maintain a high Rep.

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Thats different then.I wouldnt mind that.Would make it easy to autobalance zones and would give reason to maintain high rep.Sounds good to me really

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Team structured -- PvP needs to be restructured to be centered, and not only balanced, around teams. There needs to be team tasks, victory conditions for teams, and mechanisms in place to pit teams against teams.

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I like this and i agree 100% A battlearena similar to WoW mechanism would be awsome in my opinion.

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Nuanced stealth -- The stealth system needs to be expanded and made more nuanced. Terrain, conditions, movement, power use and other should affect stealth (both adding and subtracting.) Staying hidden should require some amount of skill (and be, to some degree, counterable by skilled opponents), but the payout should be better.

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I like this also and makes some sense to me at least.For a game that mobility is so huge stealth shouldnt be so powerful.

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Suppress travelpowers -- Travel powers should either be suppressed entirely in PvP zones (although that would require a complete redesign of the zones) or they should carry significant disadvantages to use. Penalties to stealth, accuracy, resistances and recharge, lingering for a few seconds after they've been used. It should be almost, but not quite, impossible to use them effectively in actual combat -- mostly they should be used as a way to get to the combat, then be turned off.

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This i am totally against.Travelpowers are one of the best things that this game PvP has to offer.Chasing people with superjump and superspeed and so on is something special and unique to this game wouldnt like to see it changed.

What definitely needs to change tho is the approach some of the AT's got in regards to PvP and superspeed and i am talking all melee classes.I am tired of posting this but melee classes lack powers that close distances between people with travel powers and some unresisted effects like other games that give chance to use attacks.Rush blows,knockbacks,cripples,snares etc.Give all melee AT's (except stalkers) a power similar to glue arrow that can be negated only by a kinetic and i am happy imho will make melee very viable in pvp zones.

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A suggestion then, to make PvP more accessible: Apply a buff players in PvP zones dependent on their Rep. The lower the Rep, the higher the buff. Now, I don't know a lot about how the Rep system works, but I know the game tracks it. Since there's a badge for 400 Rep, set it so that the buff only applies to those with Rep of 200 or lower, incrementally in ranges of 10 Rep, to provide a +Perc, +Acc, +Dam bonus. Nothing to defence or resistance, because those are Powerset specific - if you're squishy, you stay squishy, but you're still buffed in ways that count. As your Rep increases you are obviously (I assume) becoming more skilled at PvP, so the benefits you gain from being a newbie slowly drop away.

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This is a great suggestion in my opinion but there is a fundamental problem with it cause it has been proposed in past once more.

It goes against the whole MMO gaming experience where as you progress in game you get rewarded

The more experience you got the less powerful you are is kinda weird

However i wouldnt mind seeing how it would work in action first.

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So, it's a bug?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. When you get into the range where your client loads the character, they'll appear for a moment before the server tells you they're stealthed.

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Thanks, Max. It's nice to know someone is honest.

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Sorry mate but doubleyouteaef really.You consider me dishonest because MaX actually proclaimed this to be a bug?

Because this sure aint a bug.Its the way game works its a game mechanic this is something that cannot be changed fixed or whatever and its been discussed to death on US forums afaik.

Calling me dishonest because MaX decided to call this a bug is at least a bit meh.I even offered to show you how it works,offered you a bunch of tactics to help you with stalkers that all of them are tried and tested and the best you can do is call me dishonest because someone else decided this is a bug?Petition it and lets see it getting fixed.

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From the posts I've read you guys always seem to go "You´re doing it wrong." Whenever anyone posts a criticism of pvp.

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I am sorry but when someone actually posts something that is really not accurate what do you want to post?That yes they are right?Or try and make them understand that there is something wrong with what they are saying.

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I've read pvpers posts and been put right off ever interacting with the community on the whole.

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You are prejudiced and thats enough for me.You tarnish a bunch of people based on what a minority has posted.That is ridicilous at least.

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So, it's a bug? Hide should stop you seeing them at all, but it doesn't work properly, so you get to see them for a brief second as you jump in and out of range. That about right? I mean, IIRC, Hide's stealth radius is massively over your perception radius. They should be impossible to spot without +Perc.

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Its not a bug.Is the way stealth works.

And well sorry if it not works for you cause you have just one PBAoE but it works for a lot of sets and archetypes.Tbh since you are talking about a scrapper nothing stops you to get caltrops and just drop them on the spot the stalker is sitting.

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So, you have a difficult to learn technique which basically relies on a fault in the stealth mechanisms. You have an example of a power having to be made useless for PvE to make it function in PvP. Oh, and if you get your technique wrong and the Stalker sees you coming, you're going to get a sword (or whatever) stuffed up your pants when you go past.

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Its a technique that works.For some sets better than others and in my case i one shot/two shot stalkers hiding.So that kinda sums it up that its doable to surprise stalkers= and get first hit on them.Just takes practise and getting used to it.

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The chances of you managing to find a Stalker using the technique you describe without +Perc is astronomically small. Hide has an enormous +Stealth bonus which makes the Stalker invisible when standing right beside you. You must have +Perc for your technique to work.

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You dont need perception at all =] I perform this solo just like many other people and is easy to do it.Just need rely on stalker feeling secure and safe.You can come if you want in RV and show u how i do it.All you need is an AoE power and some practise. I am @Tainted Greek send me a tell if you are in game and i ll show you how i do it.

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Disagree with it all you want, but don't tell me not to have it or express it.

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I am reading my post again and again but i dont see me posting anywhere anything like this.Dont pop a vessel really.

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I never saw the threads in the pvp forum where the non-pvpers suggested things and the pvpers accepted them because I was put off by comments by pvpers which have made it clear that they think any non-pvper is just clueless and doesn't have any right to comment on it.

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Thats weird really cause they were pretty long threads and it seems you are well prejudiced.

You have no problem going through rubbish pile of [censored] in general discussion and other parts of forum that include one liners,smilies,derails and what not but have a problem reading a couple negative posters in danger of having a stroke.


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Oh, and more people are put off pvp by coming into contact with the pvp community than they are reading a post by a non-pvper.

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Tbh you obviously got no clue about the PvP community.Majority of it is pretty nice guys that have contributed definitely a lot around here through events and other community activites so some people are pretty lucky coming in contact with them.

And on another note if anyone wants some casual PvP teaming i got a variety of toons on heroes and vills with which i can team with you in PvP zones just send me a tell @Tainted Greek

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I mostly stay out of pvp threads because you guys have made it clear that you just don't want to know what non-pvpers have to say about it.

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Allow me to disagree because we had threads in PvP forum where non PvPers participated and was very constructive regarding PvP and how it would be better.

And to be honest some people provoke a response from PvPers by calling pvp useless/something that should be removed/the cause of all nerfs/the reason enhancements were introduced and some are trigger happy enough to say remove it all together while i have never EVER seen a pvper posting remove RP,Alting,Badging and what not.Thats because majority of PvPers believers there is room for everyone and they would like some changes in a part of the game that has been left same for what 8 issues now?At least i speak for myself i never asked any part of the game to be trashed or removed in order for PvP to get a more prominent position.

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I am with my mm in RV.

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I can confirm Liz MM is pretty scary have died from those pets a couple of times

Just wanted to say that if anyone wants to do some team PvP just for the experience feel free to send me a tell @Tainted Greek,i am happy to do some casual teaming in RV/Warburg or even have some arena fun just to practise and get some experience on how things go in a team and so on.

Its not so black as some people see it.Yes there are feuds in PvP between people and SG's and yes things get heated at times.But in the end its easy to get past all this and just enjoy some casual bashing its very relaxing and a good adrenaline rush at the same time.I dont pvp only in teams i can go in zones solo on squishies and die again and again i still have fun when i know i put a good fight and i always come back to fight again even on gimped toons. I pvp on a pb ffs!

EDIT: Just to clarify i aint no righteous.I have my own dirty past of trashtalking and i am a hothead myself and tend to get out of control if things heat up.Most of PvPers do not act like this tho and most of the times is pretty cool.At times it can get more dramatic than titanic but thats another story

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There is a bunch of techniques to even land the first strike on stalkers yourself.

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Examples. Tell us what they are. You might even get a few people actually trying them so there'll be more people in the PvP Zones.

Come on, money where mouth is.

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a) Movement: Not only forward but vertical as well.Bunny Hoping is a trend for this exactly reason.It makes AS impossible if done right and constantly.

b)Inspiration: Most stalker will try negate movement by opening with a stun followed by placate and AS.For squishies a breakfree when a stalker lurks around is life saving

c) Buff bar: Its where PvP starts to get complicated.Attacks appear before they actually land.They give you a split of a second to react.The more you practise the more efficient you become in negating AS.Usually a reconstruction or dull pain the moment AS icon appears is enough.For squishies greens insps,heals, and hibernate do the trick

d)Tp foe AS.Most dangerous technique and biggest trend right now in PvP zones.This is hardest thing to negate.its a 50/50 chance but the moment tp icon appears you need to start movign the opposite way you are getting tped.This will lead into you jumping out of location where AS awaits.There is a 50/50 chance AS will start and if it does you got the time to negate it either by healing/poping insp/reconstructing etc etc.This is usually dangerous for squishies.

These are some pretty basic techniques to negate stalkers first hit on you.There are advanced techniques like poping accolades,phasing.using kb uppong breaking hide and so on but these require to know your toon inside out and have huge experience on PvP animation chaining and so on.

As far as first strike goes.99% of stalkers feel safe.Thats their biggest weakness.They stand and observe the preys waiting for opportunity.And this is perfect opportunity to catch them.What you need to do is jump high and start moving around.There is a distance within which there is a stealth check.You can see the stalker for a few split seconds and then he vanishes.Playing in and out with movement with this stealth check allows you to keep track of the stalker.Its hard,its not easy takes a lot of practise.Once you nail it tho you can start using auras and PBAoE's to unhide them.I have lost count by now the amount of stalkers i have one shotted with inferno while they are hidden.

Finally use environment wisely.If you know there is a stalker around lure him on water.This is top tactics because if you got details high enough you can see the unsuspected stalker trails and you know exactly where he is going.You can even calculate AS strikes by waiting him come stand next to you,the moment he stands still its certain AS is coming so be prepared.Heal and let it rip.Works everytime.

These are but a few very effective and fairly easy with some training tactics.

As far a builds go biggest thing that someone can do to increase his chances against stalkers and without spending a dime is get all the +hp accolades. The more hp the less easy you die and the more time u get to react.If you manage to bring your hp high enough to not die from the first 2 hits its basically easy from then on.
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Come on, money where mouth is.

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I dont need put any money I pvp since day 1 against stalkers got 4-5 400pvp reputation toons including a rubbish AR/Dev.By now its really predictable what they gonna do all it takes is a little practise and not get discouraged from dying and from the trashtalk that goes on at times.

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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.

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Don't forget stacked perception bonuses and an ability to handle alpha strikes without caving.

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Seriously what? Please stop with these posts cause they are out of place and wrong.I dont get involved in the rest but this is downright wrong.

Stalkers AS is avoidable.Stalkers are down low in pvp food chain.Anyone with a bit of practise can negate assasin strike.I pvp on squishies exclusively with the exception of 1 tank and yes i die but when i die is cause of me being careless and not because stalkers got the upper hand with AS.There is a bunch of techniques to even land the first strike on stalkers yourself.

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So, basically, you're telling me that there is an exploit which gets around this, but I'm wrong? Well, duh!

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Its not an exploit its a sort of problematic game mechanic or so but it involves tp foe and it still needs a lot of timing.

Basically you are wrong simple as that.Constant movement = no AS

there are only 5 stalkers tops on Union that can do this workaround and they are no casuals or newbies.

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I was constantly moving and I got hit.

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Obviously you have a different perception of moving than cause AS wont fire under constant movement.Roll a stalker and try it.

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Why that's easy, you just keep moving all the time. As long as you can break line of sight once every few seconds to anywhere on the map (rather like you say can be done with Stalkers) then you should have no problems at all.

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Ok to end this discussion between PvP and some situations that dont occur in PvP.Noone uses snipe for the exact reason you can get ASed easily. So no point discussing this unless you slot Snipe with 3 interrupts and move after animation starts and follow target which is doable.

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Constant movement is all well and good until you want to... y'know, -attack- something, whereupon you get rooted to the spot for the duration of the animation, letting anyone run up to you. You hear their weapon draw, travel suppression ticks off just in time to start running away, but their weapon hits you from 100 yards away, and if they're using Super Speed their travel suppression works off during the animation, letting them zip right after you to hit you with another attack.

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Majority of PvPers and regulars use unsupressed movement combo which is the reason they can fire at a constant rate with little rooting.

CJ/SJ/SS/Hurdle = unsupressed movement in PvP.

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Stalkers aint hard to get around, just dont stand still, i dont know how many times thats been said.

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And it's still rubbish.

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Ok dont insist on that one cause it really aint rubbish,you are just digging your own hole here

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This requeres skill to avoid. The stalker is even easier to avoid then the blaster. Just move around a lot. As AS can't initiate if youre on the move constantly.

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Yeah, that's another tactic I've heard which is, in fact, a load of rubbish.

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Sorry but you are wrong and its not rubbish.Constant movement prevents AS and there is only one way to workaround it and i cannot post it here cause is sort of a bug thing.

Constant movement = no AS thats a fact.

It wouldnt .Only in Factional zones.

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This might be a problem for those that actually do zonal team pvp. considering the team limit is only 8 (and i highly doubt that is something they're ever going to change) a lot of people would moan at being assigned to a random team, especially if they wanted to join up with members of their SG/VG etc. Would be a nice idea though if they could scrap the 8 man team cap for zonal pvp only

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"Oh boy, I got into a full team of 8.. Why are you all in the hospital?"
"We're farming for the time spent on the zone badge. The other 7 guys in the zone are actually pvp:ing... oh, sorry, make that 8, the other team is full now as well."

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Tbh they should make timer for badge to stop counting when you sit in safe zone.

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One thing that could also work nicely could maybe be not allowing be in PvP zones unteamed.I mean uppon entering PvP zone to automatically join a team that is active inside the zone.Essentially imho all people in the zone should be teamed no matter the size. 1 team for heroes 1 for villains.


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This might be a problem for those that actually do zonal team pvp. considering the team limit is only 8 (and i highly doubt that is something they're ever going to change) a lot of people would moan at being assigned to a random team, especially if they wanted to join up with members of their SG/VG etc. Would be a nice idea though if they could scrap the 8 man team cap for zonal pvp only

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Shouldnt be a problem if u join as a team in the zone.What i am saying is essentially when u enter PvP zone to join Raid.See health bars,buffs etc of all heroes in zone and be able cooperate with them.You can still go in with your friends sg/vg as a team you just join the raid inside the zone.

My opinion is that kheldian forms are useless for PvP.Full human form is the best option and it worked for me much better than any other combo i tried. At level 43 i survive dual Assasin strikes no problems and i can take a lot damage.Only problem is that this is all i can do

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About PvP balance.This game is balanced totally around team.

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The trouble is that it's not structured around teams. There are no PvP incentives for teams, no advantages in going up against a similarly sized team, no score for teams (hell, there isn't even a kill count) and no in-game concept of team victory. Two teams go up against each other, the hospital works towards turning the whole thing into a long, dull slog with no clear outcome. Sure, one team maybe had more faceplants than the other but ... eh, so what?

PvP in City of Heroes, and in particular on a team, just doesn't have any sense of accomplishment to me.

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Couldnt agree more.This is why i said that they should drastically consider adding some things that already exist in other MMO's that wanted PvP to be a more team thing.

One thing that could also work nicely could maybe be not allowing be in PvP zones unteamed.I mean uppon entering PvP zone to automatically join a team that is active inside the zone.Essentially imho all people in the zone should be teamed no matter the size. 1 team for heroes 1 for villains.