Anyone seen this? New expansion?
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2008-08-09 10:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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To me the most interesting part is suggesting that new alts would start as neutral and become heroes or villains through their actions, though probably in my case by the time I got to 50 I'd still be a damn neutral fence sitter.
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Well I'd imagine a Merc would stick right down the middle, depending on who paid the most. Then again, one might say that'd shift his morality meter anyway.
(And who's morals would it be based on anyway?)
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Valkryst suggested something like this a couple of weeks ago.
Original thread.
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Wonder how long ago the survey went out? And if it's been recently, does that prove that the devs do in fact read the boards? 
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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As missions are played and more people positively rate them, the creator gains rewards and access to unlockable content for his/her missions. Rewards will also be given to players of the missions. Players will gain rewards such as badges and even XP for playing user created missions and StoryArcs.
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This is going to be a tricky one to do. What happens if I create the greatest story in the world, but for some reason a group of people decide to rate it poorly? Would the kick in the teeth put me off? (Heck no, I'll story to my heart's content - even if it's never rated positively, I'll enjoy it). But still, if I can't get map x or item y to put into my map because no one ever tries it?
I think all the missions should be at the very least anonymous, so that you can only choose a synopsis to play, rather than by person.
What about those who just create a rubbish mission and then get their friends to rate it highly to unlock the rewards?
And will rating be mandatory upon mission exit?
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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Since I last checked my weight.
With "We" I really meant "City of Heroes". I'm still a huge fan of the game; and since meeting the Dev team in person, I am convinced that whatever they are planning is going to be rock-solid.
But yes, let us know what you guys think about what you heard / read so far, so we can feed that into the discussion as the European point-of-view.
We have been given the full reassurance of NorCal that we do have an impact on what is going to happen to the game. They want to hear our feedback.
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And we'd like their feedback too, so if they could post it'd be nice. BaB has an EU account now, nothing stopping him!
I don't mean to decry your efforts GR, K, Palladium, but direct interaction with the developers of the game would be great. You guys do a sterling job, everyone agrees but it's just better if they could show us they're listening, rathr than just saying they are.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
Your move CO? 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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4.) Character Creator 2.0 includes Powers Customization, allowing players to customize not only the character, but also the actual look of its powers
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Yes, please 
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(And who's morals would it be based on anyway?)
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Oh, don't start that one again, please! 
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It is actually a valid point. One of the things I basically hated about the NWN2 default campaign was their application of alignment shift. Their view of alignment simply wasn't mine and it was next to impossible to do anything even vaguely good without massively shifting toward Lawful and Good. They had two points on their alignment scale, LG and CE, and everything tended to push you towards one of those.
I'm not a great fan of 'Morality Meters'. For starters, they tend to be broken. I know of villain missions where you have the option of letting someone escape or killing them. Now, the morality scale will likely get adjusted to good if you let them escape, or evil if you kill them, but that's just plain wrong. I get my morality adjusted to good because I'm incompetent? The game can't know my intentions, it can only adjust the scale based on the results of the mission.
Equally, there are going to be heroes falling to the dark side because they messed up a few missions. I guess it means there would actually be consequences to failing some missions for a change, which would be nice, but a system like this doesn't reward heroic failure unless it is massively complex, which means long term development, and we won't see the results for a long time.
I'm okay to wait a bit for PCC, but if the choice is some half-baked morality system and PCC in a couple of months, or something which the devs think is great and I'll think sucks in a year, I'd rather they just forgot the morality system entirely.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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I'm okay to wait a bit for PCC, but if the choice is some half-baked morality system and PCC in a couple of months, or something which the devs think is great and I'll think sucks in a year, I'd rather they just forgot the morality system entirely.
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I echo that
I guess the best way to do a morality meter type thing would be to make all the choices fairly simple and clear-cut. There's no need to get too philosophical or deep about it because, as you say, there's no way a computer program can figure out motivations and judge accordingly. Hell, human beings have a hard enough time trying to figure that stuff out, hence Ravenswing's ideas about morality being at odds with the NWN developers' ideas of it, both of which are probably at odds with someone else's.
As players we'll probably be better off accepting the fact that the morality thing will be another abstract game system that won't even attempt to map onto real-world morality in any complex, nuanced fashion.
Is that a bad thing? No, IMO, it'd be another game mechanic that offers a bit more variety in how our characters develop and that's Win all round if you ask me.
I suspect the morality will be based on the outcome of missions. Perhaps you have a choice of rescuing or kidnapping, robbing or recovering, saving or killing? Seems the easiest way to do it.. You have an alignment meter which swings based on the outcome of missions.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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And we'd like their feedback too, so if they could post it'd be nice. BaB has an EU account now, nothing stopping him!
I don't mean to decry your efforts GR, K, Palladium, but direct interaction with the developers of the game would be great. You guys do a sterling job, everyone agrees but it's just better if they could show us they're listening, rathr than just saying they are.
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QFT.
I still feel bad that BAB got such a reception last time he posted. I do hope that they post here again, or at least indicate that they're reading some of our suggestions and taking them on board. We love the game too and are excited by what's to come in the future. We may never get the level of interaction that the American forums do but it'd just be nice to hear some feedback from them as well.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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I suspect the morality will be based on the outcome of missions. Perhaps you have a choice of rescuing or kidnapping, robbing or recovering, saving or killing? Seems the easiest way to do it.. You have an alignment meter which swings based on the outcome of missions.
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Yeah, I reckon that'll be it, nice and simple.
Hopefully it won't be too abusable in the mission generator. It would suck if, for example, some nefarious mission maker made their "good" mission outcome give an "evil" swing.
EDIT: Too slow
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I suspect the morality will be based on the outcome of missions. Perhaps you have a choice of rescuing or kidnapping, robbing or recovering, saving or killing? Seems the easiest way to do it.. You have an alignment meter which swings based on the outcome of missions.
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Yeah, I reckon that'll be it, nice and simple.
Hopefully it won't be too abusable in the mission generator. It would suck if, for example, some nefarious mission maker made their "good" mission outcome give an "evil" swing.
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That's exactly my point. If you make it simple, it's not just less than adequate, it sucks.
In the example I gave, you can let someone go, or kill them. Letting them go swings the metre to good, killing them swings it to evil. Now, if they can't resist then it's a basic moral choice and can be judged by a machine, but the guy is trying to escape, so it's not that simple. If he escapes because you aren't good enough to catch him, that doesn't make you a good guy, it makes you an incompetent bad guy.
Now, in the eyes of your superior, that may amount to the same thing and you get booted out of the bad guy club, but that isn't likely to get you voted into the good guy club either.
Simplify this kind of thing to the point where a computer can judge it and you trivialise it to the point where it's just a game mechanic allowing people to switch sides when they want to.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Simplify this kind of thing to the point where a computer can judge it and you trivialise it to the point where it's just a game mechanic allowing people to switch sides when they want to.
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Erm, that's exactly what it is. Don't get me wrong, I love a good shades of grey story, but this isn't exactly Tolstoy here. It's a comic book game with values of right and wrong. Besides, they did mention a 3rd choice too.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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I suspect the morality will be based on the outcome of missions. Perhaps you have a choice of rescuing or kidnapping, robbing or recovering, saving or killing? Seems the easiest way to do it.. You have an alignment meter which swings based on the outcome of missions.
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I like. All very Batman. (And I'd like the option, as a villain, to disguise any hostages as my minions, so that heroes beat the snot out of them. Now that's what I call STYLE).
So the devs had better get on with getting MY idea in shape.
Because otherwise we'll need some seriously good content to tide us over.
Plus, I can kill them with my brain.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
Balls. Just balls. 
For reasons, read Xemulas post.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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Simplify this kind of thing to the point where a computer can judge it and you trivialise it to the point where it's just a game mechanic allowing people to switch sides when they want to.
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Erm, that's exactly what it is. Don't get me wrong, I love a good shades of grey story, but this isn't exactly Tolstoy here. It's a comic book game with values of right and wrong. Besides, they did mention a 3rd choice too.
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Never mind. When you've played a game set up like this and got hacked off with the mechanism you'll understand what I'm getting at.
Maybe if you read my post instead of the last sentence...
Probably not.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Never mind. When you've played a game set up like this and got hacked off with the mechanism you'll understand what I'm getting at.
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*flashbacks of accidentally hitting a guard in Fable, or a trooper in KotoR, or simply misclicking a text choice*
Unless it's done *very* well, then all it's going to boil down to is a formulaic system that people will maniupulat to swap sides at will, with no actual gravitas at all. Guess we'll have to wait and see
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Simplify this kind of thing to the point where a computer can judge it and you trivialise it to the point where it's just a game mechanic allowing people to switch sides when they want to.
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Erm, that's exactly what it is. Don't get me wrong, I love a good shades of grey story, but this isn't exactly Tolstoy here. It's a comic book game with values of right and wrong. Besides, they did mention a 3rd choice too.
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Never mind. When you've played a game set up like this and got hacked off with the mechanism you'll understand what I'm getting at.
Maybe if you read my post instead of the last sentence...
Probably not.
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I did read your post. To me, what you described was what was happening in your head to describe how your character dealt with two side of the moral coin. It's certainly not the game differentiating between "You let him get away" or "You rescued him.", unless the morality system gives you that choice via conversation?
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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Never mind. When you've played a game set up like this and got hacked off with the mechanism you'll understand what I'm getting at.
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*flashbacks of accidentally hitting a guard in Fable, or a trooper in KotoR, or simply misclicking a text choice*
Unless it's done *very* well, then all it's going to boil down to is a formulaic system that people will maniupulat to swap sides at will, with no actual gravitas at all. Guess we'll have to wait and see
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Well that's down to the individual players. Given that today what a PvP'er or Farmer does doesn't interfere with how I play the game, that gravitas doesn't really matter, does it? It's just a choice that each player will approach on their own individual way.
Edit: Also, I've done all of what Xemulas has done in games too and very annoying it is at times. I've usually approached it with an "Oh well, onwards." approach (complete with angry/guilty feelings - perfect internal (and sometimes shouty external) RPing)
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
Xemulas gets it.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Well that's down to the individual players. Given that today what a PvP'er or Farmer does doesn't interfere with how I play the game, that gravitas doesn't really matter, does it? It's just a choice that each player will approach on their own individual way.
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That's very true, but PvP and Farming = optional gameplay choices based on the system we have. The way I see this, for it to have any real impact, would have to be backdated into existing story arcs. Thus, it's entirely unavoidable by those who don't PvP/Farm, and do the story arcs. In that event, what if these accidental/misread (in the way that Ravenswing implies) interpriations lead to locked out arcs, or having to go to paragon, just as you were getting excited about doing viridina's arc again.
I'm just concerned...none of this sounds like CoX, to me. It has the potential to a) Alienate long term players (bringing Tankers and Empaths to CoV, great...there goes my non rigid teaming), and b) Be a nightmare for badgers (if it happens the way I read it)
I have some faith that either, very little if any of this will go ahead, and that which does, is done in the manner things have been handled recently...because if this goes the way that article put it across (which came off very Rumour-mongery), then this subscriber's faith may come off a little more than shaken
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The UEBERMEPLZ slots are a very very bad idea...STF/LRSF/LGTF/ITF become *even* easier, and there will be an invisible discrepency between level 50 players, leading to more reluctancy to allow PuG people into teams, and a certain discrimination.
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I dont really agree with this arguement but i would like to see if the 10 uni slots bring more power to builds that extra layer of difficulty is added to the game.
Given that they seemed to be talking about this being a paid for expansion, I'm wondering how they would keep the two systems separate?
Maybe there will still be the option to play traditional style, with no loss of ability (other than accessing certain areas).
Pure speculation until we get some more details, but heck, it's fun
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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The UEBERMEPLZ slots are a very very bad idea...STF/LRSF/LGTF/ITF become *even* easier, and there will be an invisible discrepency between level 50 players, leading to more reluctancy to allow PuG people into teams, and a certain discrimination.
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I dont really agree with this arguement but i would like to see if the 10 uni slots bring more power to builds that extra layer of difficulty is added to the game.
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But you agree that there would have to be something more difficult in order to warrent even more *perfecting* of characters? If these are added, and are more or less easy to obtain (i.e, not via the auction house/random drop rates), then the high end content will simply become easier and easier, if they have the impact the article implied
(heck, for all we know it could be a global jump height buff, or knocks 0.3s off fear effects )
What don't you agree with though TG? That there will be discrepency between 50s? (keep in mind that i'm talking very much from a PvE perspective, i'll leave the PvP speculation to you and your cadre ) Unless these are displayed somewhere, Hero 50 A, who has all 10 slots and they're maxed out, will severely out perform Hero 50 A-2. So for MoSTF/RSFs, and Co-op task forces, people will prefer the As to the A-2s.
(not all that clear, but i hope you get what I mean)
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(And who's morals would it be based on anyway?)
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Oh, don't start that one again, please!