[u]QUESTION:[u] Since Base Salvage will no longer be dropping and Invention Salvage will be doing double duty, will the drop rate of Invention Salvage be increased? If yes, what's the percentage rolls now?
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Q. Base Pathing issues, why was pathing changed?
A. The base pathing was never intended to be changed. The fix for it was not simple though, so it took some time for the programming team to get the fix in. We are actively looking at ways to make the pathing system easier for base builders, however, in the future there may be pathing requirements for raiding.
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We've been told that when the pathing rules are put back in that it will be optional to use them or keep the no pathing setup that's currently on test. However, your statement sounds more like the current test setup people are excited about coming to live may be removed in the future for raid pathing's return. Will people that have no intention of base raiding be able to keep the no pathing option or will we once more be forced into having to design around a system we have no use for?
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The bold part - I think that qualifier means, if you want raiding happening, certain rules will apply for pathing.
Welcome Sunstorm!
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Base Salvage is currently also used for Empowerment Buffs
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Empowerment stations were limited to common salvage, so they would still be fairly cheap (With a few exceptions). However empowerment buffs are on my radar to be looked at.
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The problem I think is the complexity of dealing with many varied recipes now. Players just want to "run and go" when they hit the Empowerment Stations, not have to stop play for a shopping trip to the Auction House.
Here's a suggestion I have: Allow common salvage to be turned into Brainstorm Empowerments, similar to the Brainstorms now. Brainstorm Empowerments go in Special salvage and have a high limit (99 in your personal salvage?), but can't be traded or stored. Then just make each Empowerment cost X Brainstorm Empowerments as you feel required. This should very much simplify things, because we can just use any old salvage in our inventory. Even if the cost goes up 4x, I think it'll be easier still.
If you feel Uncommon Salvage or Rare Salvage is required, you can just make the recipe Brainstorm Empowerment + the salvage. Or make some Uncommon Brainstorm Empowerments and Rare Brainstorm Empowerments.
I'd love to hear what other players think of this idea.
P.S. Variable access levels on all bins: very high want from players.
P.P.S. Also, separate Special Event etc. storage bins, but the access is probably a bigger deal.
P.P.P.S. Everything else is ok (30 limit on bins not great, but ok). The instant refund thing is awesome. Thanks for that!
If we can't get IoP's from the CoP - make them purchasable with very very high price tags and high rent - so it'll continue to force SG members to play in SG mode.
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Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items. As soon a player loads into a base, that base will automatically refund the Prestige difference. This is crucial: the base must be entered in order to trigger the Prestige refund. If your base is not loaded, then the refund will not happen until someone enters it.
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This is *extremely* good news. Thank you for listening to our concerns here. I'm glad you were able to get a solution implemented before going live with this issue, and I'm very glad that you're here and telling us good news!
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Teleporter recipes: The Rare salvage requirement on these should be removed in the next patch.
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Excellent. That will resolve the worst of my concerns aside from security for the bases.
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Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?
A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.
Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.
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This is a good explanation. It makes sense, especially with Dual Builds being released at the same time. I'd mentioned that we don't know what the market impact for both Dual Builds and Bases will be, and that Test is not a good data source for salvage markets. I can understand wanting to look at market impact before allowing a larger degree of hoarding.
It's good to hear that storage amounts are going to be something that will be monitored for the future. I can handle a low amount of storage capacity on a temporary basis.
I am still very concerned about security aspects of base storage. If it's possible, could you give us some further information on where this issue may stand currently, and whether it's being looked at?
@SithRose and @Sith Rose
Permanent resident of Virtue
"Mommy, I need Cthulhu. He keeps the bad dreams away."
Welcome Sunstorm.
My question:
The developers are obviously aware that some players dislike the market. Merit rewards are being introduced to allow players to opt out of using the market.
Why then, are base editors now being forced to use the market when they were not required to do so before? The two changes seem somewhat contradictory. Is using the market to buy salvage considered trivial, since there is always a supply available (unlike some recipes)? Is the development team aware of the reasons people cite for their dislike of the market?
The invention system, and by extension the market, were advertised as "completely optional." It is no longer optional for bases, a completely unrelated feature that people have been enjoying for over a year before inventions were introduced.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I just wanted to take the time to say thank you for having the prestige difference automatically refunded. While I am not the primary base builder for our super groups, we were certainly not looking forward to having to rebuild the rooms that would get us back the most prestige for time spent. I am stoked that we can now get the largest plot size for less then our current plot.
I can't wait to see what Soul Restorer will do with the extra millions we'll be getting back. As well as no longer having to worry about expanding the base while paying the rent. Thanks again.
Also if a tour event does go on, I'm sure a tour of Criminal Intent's base can be arranged day or night as we have European and American players.
Welcome Sunstorm. Really glad to have you onboard with the base community. Lord knows we needed it 
Lots of good answers so far. The automatic prestige refund is extremely appreciated by all base builders. I'm curious to see what further changes will be made with Invention Salvage and Rent (which I still don't understand why it even exists).
Let me add my 'welcome' and thanks as well, Sunstorm.
If I missed the announcement, forgive me, but are you going to be the "go-to guy" for bases, now? We've had no one to specifically handle questions for us, merely a liaison.
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Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items.
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Much, much thanks. It feels good to know that we've been heard, and that something we were told was not going to happen because it was difficult turned out to be worth the resource time to make happen.
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Teleporter recipes: The Rare salvage requirement on these should be removed in the next patch.
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Also much thanks. Something so basic to the (non-PvP) base crowd was a serious point of contention. This is extremely appreciated.
Good to hear that this is the tip of the iceberg, and that other aspects are being looked at. There's a million things I want to ask for and ask about, but for now, I'll hold off on those and wait to see what happens. The fact that things are happening is a good sign.
Sunstorm, thank-you for the quick responses today to many of our base questions. This is REALLY appreciated by the community.
Besides my current heroes, Spongebob, and Chuck Norris (don't think bad thoughts about Chuck, people, he can hear what you think), I think there may be room for a third.
Keep up the good work.
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I'm sorry, nobody is buying the 'it is too confusing' line. Anyone so befuddled by two different types of salvage shouldn't be out on the internet unchaperoned.
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My SG mate saw some Elite Chain Guns arranged nicely in a coalition base and wanted to place them in our base.
He gave up. Why? The current base salvage system is indeed more complex than what they are proposing (and needlessly so). He grew frustrated with the very specific recipes required to make components and the mind-numbing amount of useless base slavage that won't combine into anything of value. He didn't know that the Supercollider could craft all salvage and was frustrated with jumping from one work bench to another. We also have an IO crafting table and thus lack one of the three tiers of worktables. Oops, without using a Buff Station, he was occluded from even crafting tier 2 salvage.
That is a lot of speific and largely esoteric knowledge required to make a base item. The new sysytem is: look at recipe, buy the 3 to 5 invention salvage required from the market interface, then craft. That's it.
The whole process of turning Base salvage into Component salvage is a useless step and I am glad that it is gone. Two of my 4 SG mates are already excited about the new base system and cost structure.
well this is what i get for escorting B17's from Belgium to Regansburg and back again all night (5 hours worth of flying time), a sore shoulder, tired back and missing Sunstorm's entry into the fray.
Welcome Sunstorm!
Ex, I have offically put the pitchfork away.
So far reading the posts before me, I feel they have pretty much asked the questions that are foremost in my mind, so i will await further info, i may not like everything you said in your initial post, but at least we are not shouting into the void anymore, and for that I say thanks, and also Thanks Ex for pulling on the hip waders, and slogging thru the mess that landed in your lap.
I'm off to bed, I feel like I just did a Posi TF with newbies, at least I was able to land back at Bodney after a long hard flight.
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Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items.
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Trumpets sound and peasants cheer! 
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Teleporter recipes: The Rare salvage requirement on these should be removed in the next patch.
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Counter-offer:
Stop requiring crafting for Basic Teleporter Pads at all. You'll save yourselves (and us!) a whole lot of grief by letting this legacy mistake go NOW rather than later.
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A. Base salvage has little value to most players. Since there are a limited number of base items to construct, once those items are built there is little need for any further base salvage.
As a result, base salvage tends to either gather dust on salvage racks, or be a source of confusion with Invention salvage. Base salvage will not be removed though, so anything not converted to Brain Storm tokens will remain in game.
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Shennanigans. 
Base Salvage is in Issue 12 and prior of little value to "most" players because it is only used for two things ... building permanent base items and crafting temporary buffs via empowerment stations. This creates little demand for it, and in a supply-and-demand context in which there are ever increasing levels of supply, that means it has little value.
All you had to do was make Base Salvage into a consumable ... something that needs to be "devoured" on a more regular basis. What could possibly create such a demand? Why Base Raiding PvP ... obviously!
Right now, with consensual base raiding in Issue 12, everything gets restored after the raid at no cost.
What if that were no longer true?
What if, after a base raid (consensual and/or otherwise) there was a repair bill? A repair bill to be paid not in Prestige ... but in Base Salvage? In the Issue 12 context, this would cost Components ... the quantity, quality and type determined by the extent of the damage to the various base items emplaced within the base. We've got Repair AUX items that are supposed to attach to Worktables ... enable those to provide your UI for processing base repairs following PvP. Cash in your Components and stuff in the Base gets repaired to full working order.
This then creates a demand for Base Salvage sufficient to fuel a market(!) for trading it ... once Base Raiding gains traction and is seen as an enjoyable activity to engage in by a non-negligible segment of the playerbase.
To be honest though, I do have to admit that crafting Base Salvage into components to create items was "more tedious than it was worth" actually. Conversely, the idea of porting everything over to Invention Salvage is a really ugly cudgel of an alternative ... particularly when simultaneously launching Dual Builds.
If you want to simplify Base Crafting, then actually go ahead and simplify it. Use Brainstorms, instead of Base Salvage (and Base Components derived therefrom) as the "currency" for Base Items. Require [#] of Brainstorms to build the craftable Base Items or to craft temporary Empowerments. Convert all Base Salvage drops in Issue 12 into Brainstorm drops in Issue 13. Convert all Base Salvage in storage bins in bases into Brainstorms (conversion rate need not be 1:1). Repairs for PvP damage cost [#] of Brainstorms for damaged/destroyed base items.
You see where I'm going with this? If you're going to simplify things ... simplify them down to the level of "currency" and we'll all get along just fine. But we NEED to have a "currency" which isn't in direct competition with the need to create Invention Enhancements so that our characters are playable in the game at large. That's why switching "base crafting currency" over to Invention Salvage is a Lose-Lose proposition for base builders ... because it's something "too valuable to communally pool and share" with your SG mates for the betterment of your base.
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Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?
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The storage rack issue is only an insult to players who make use of their base services ... IF ... it becomes the only way to store the "currency" used for crafting base items and temporary empoowerments. The best possible solution would be for there to be a "base crafting currency storage rack" (ie. the Base Salvage racks that we have now) and a separate Invention Storage Rack that held ... six storage slots that functioned exactly like the auction spaces in Wentworths and the Black Market. So you'd have six spaces per Invention Rack that can each hold up to 10 pieces of a single TYPE of salvage ... just like the auction slots do. This makes space plentiful ... yet also limited.
Note also that such an arrangement would mean that you'd need three invention racks per salvage type, per salvage grade, in order to store at least one piece of salvage of every type. That's 18 invention storage racks to store up to 10 pieces of every single type of salvage (common to rare, tech and arcane) available on the market.
Easy.
Simple.
Effective.
Not being done. 
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A. Rent still exists, but it has been reduced dramatically.
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Correction.
Rent has been slashed so dramatically that it is difficult to justify its continued existence ... especially if there is nothing being done to the "penalized for paying early, rewarded for paying late" business model that we've been stuck with since CoV launched years ago.
I mean, seriously! What part of going to pay RENT does the Dev team consider to be FUN?!? 
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Welcome Sunstorm! We're all glad to finally have a base Dev, Christmas came early this year! 
Don't worry, we're normally not this angsty, the salvage changes just have us worked up. Thank you for joining us!
Sunstorm Wrote:
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Yes, Holiday salvage was a big concern when we converted the salvage racks, but we thought it more important to give players access to invention salvage racks. Unfortunately, the code to create different salvage caps for each is non-trivial, so we will need to address this in another way.
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Is there a chance this could be dealt with before I13 hits live? Leaving the existing salvage racks as they are on live and adding a 30 piece Invention Salvage only bin would be far better over all. Take the Floor Safe (or Wall Safe) and have the art team paint it black, for an almost ready made model.
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Items in personal inventory will be placed at the reduced price after the issue goes live. Merry Christmas!
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Oooh, just what we wanted! Thanks!
Snow_Globe Wrote:
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Suggestion for the developers to look at for the future:
Keep brainstorms, but have both base and invention salvage convert TO brainstorms.
Convert common salvage (any) at 1 salvage:1 brainstorm.
Convert uncommon salvage (any) at 1 salvage:5 brainstorms.
Convert rare salvage (any) at 1 salvage:10 brainstorms.
Have crafting costs based only on prestige and brainstorms.
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Definately a better idea than the current messy grab bag of Invention Salvage crafting. If some limiter is needed, higher end base items could still require one or two pieces of salvage.
You can also add my name to the list of people that think the Rent costs are so low as to be pointless other than serving as an annoyance now.
I hope to see you around in the base forum!
wow first day on the job and past my question like i was standing still..
i feel so happy now.
seriously id like my question answered.
why dont you open some of the ingame items that already exsist?
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What if that were no longer true?
What if, after a base raid (consensual and/or otherwise) there was a repair bill? A repair bill to be paid not in Prestige ... but in Base Salvage?
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That would serve no purpose but as a disincentive to base raiding.
Are the presrtige refunds, revised teleporter recipies on Test now or is that in the next patch?
So the big base update is not new items or features. It's an increase in my rent and further tension on salvage.
i13 really is a kick in the crotch, isn't it?
As a solo SG base-builder I have enjoyed keeping my base small, functional and (most importantly) rent-free. With the changes, I am now going to have to pay rent.
Are you making any changes to the schedule of when rent is due or other locations to pay rent, aside from travelling to City Hall or Port Oakes (or is it Cap, I can never remember?)
It's not so much the cost of rent, it's the annoyance of travelling to zones I don't really frequent and having to do so too often.
Craft your inventions in AE!!
Play "Crafter's Cafe" - Arc #487283. A 1 mission, NON-COMBAT AE arc with workable invention tables!
Wow. I go and sleep for a few hours and look what I miss. New rednames joining the fray! Niiicce.
Welcome Sunstorm!
(Prestige Refunds and Teleporter Recipes) Thank you for that.
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Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?
A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.
Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.
[/ QUOTE ]Wow, I seem to remember Positron saying that the IO system would remain optional. By saying "all players" it makes it obvious that the dev team believes that all players use the market. Optional in name only is not really optional.
But the biggest problem is the claim that the storage capacity will be looked into at some point in the future. It's been my experience that this generally means years from now. What about those of us who aren't interested in only being able to store 30 pieces of silver for the next 3 years?
(Rent) Since amount of rent that's going to be charged is so small, what's the point in having rent at all?
(Doors) Since the pathing has been deleted can we get the doorways fixed so they can be placed side-by-side? Or made optional altogether? I for one am tired of all of my bases being nothing but a series of blocky rooms connected by the standard 10 x 10 x 10 foot dungeon corridors.
(New Stuff) When will we be seeing improvements and new stuff added to bases?
Right here Synapse said:[ QUOTE ]
The Merit system gives players who dont like to fiddle with the markets the chance to buy that IO enhancement theyve always wanted but havent been able to afford with influence/infamy. It also gives players a way to have greater control over supply and demand on specific items by allowing players to buy that incredibly overpriced recipe listed on the Auction House, thus decreasing the demand for the item on the auction house.
[/ QUOTE ]So where's that system for giving players who don't like to fiddle with the markets the chance to build that base they've always wanted?
Edit: added in that last question
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Our own Redname!!!
*hugs Sunstorm*
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FINALLY!!! OMG!!! (((( SUNSTORM))))))
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
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wow first day on the job and past my question like i was standing still..
i feel so happy now.
seriously id like my question answered.
why dont you open some of the ingame items that already exsist?
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Wow.
Snark much?
Lots of peeps have questions.
I believe the answer to yours is implied in Sunstorm's opening post:
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Q. Why was X feature not looked into?
A. Actually, we looked at a lot of features. [color=#37FDFC]We have plans for[color= #FFFFFF] not only Base Raiding and the Cathedral of Pain, but also [color=#37FDFC]the base editor[color= #FFFFFF] as well. We want to add [color=#37FDFC]new base decorations, new permissions features,[color= #FFFFFF] and a few [color=#37FDFC]more goodies[color= #FFFFFF] as well. [color=#37FDFC]We are still working on these, and they will be added in as we can get them completed.[color= #FFFFFF]
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Quote:
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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wow first day on the job and past my question like i was standing still..
i feel so happy now.
seriously id like my question answered.
why dont you open some of the ingame items that already exsist?
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Sunstorm has stated that they're looking into adding new items to the base editor. I imagine that will include existing in-game items that we currently don't have access to. In most cases, I seriously doubt that they can just easily open those items up to us. A database entry that's compatible with the editor will have to be added for each and every item, and there's quite a wishlist going. And, depending on what they're planning, it may have to wait until they're finished with those changes to the base editor that Sunstorm mentioned *shrugs* Personally, just knowing that they're finally looking into this stuff gives me hope for the future, especially if they're going to be adding it as they finish it, like Sunstorm said.
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Just a couple more answers for now. I'll continue to keep an eye on this thread and threads in the base forums and elsewhere.
Plasmastream asked:
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Q. Are you guys aware of the general view point on your movement to the new invention system?
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Extremely
We are in fact watching this very closely, and looking at options to improve it.
The Rent payment system is also being looked at closely as well.
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Q. It's understood there are 3 seperate building communities, PVP Base Raiders, Casual Raiders and DEAR GOD KEEP PVP AWAY FROM MY BASE!! correct?
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Yes.
Mad Scientist asked:
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The secure and hidden plots have the same prices for the same sizes. Bug? or can you give us insight into a design goal?
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Good question. This relates to the original goal of the base repricing, which was giving players access to make better raidable bases.
The smaller Secure plots are the same price, however the larger secure plots are more expensive. To make it official, this is what the correct prices are supposed to be: (I've seen them posted around the forums already.)
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Hidden base costs:
Size Cost
8x12 84,500
12x12 312,500
12x16 722,000
16x16 1,250,000
16x20 1,984,500
20x20 2,812,500
20x24 3,872,000
24x24 5,000,000
24x28 6,384,500
Secure base costs
Size Cost
12x16 722,000
16x16 1,250,000
16x20 1,984,500
20x20 2,812,500
20x24 5,000,000
24x24 7,812,500
24x28 11,250,000
</pre><hr />
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Welcome SunStorm! My SG's maybe able to give a tour as well, though they aren't all much to look at.
Also, here's a crazy idea. Make only two recipes for each empowerment and each base item...one that uses the cheapest all around invention salvage and one that uses the current base salvage. Not only does this add more options and lets those "confused" with base salvage use invention salvage...it could lessen the impact on the market to release dual builds and lower the amount of special recipes on the market (which you are doing at the same time as making bases depend on Invention salvage) and hopefully lessen the coming inflation. Cause really, I see no real reason to change it from the way it is. You could change text or add text about base salvage to the tutorial like you did for invention salvage quicker and easier that this change without upsetting the market or the player base.
Also if the original system really is too "confusing" to use, then change the drops. Discontinue the drops of all base salvage and replace it with component drops and special base salvage drops (Demon hearts and Aeon tech, used in certain base item crafting) only. Old base salvage can be turned into components til it's gone and with us getting the base salvage needed for base item crafting I.E., the components, straight from drops would in most cases cut out a big step in the process simplifying it greatly.
CoH:
PSI-on: DM/PB Defender (Triumph)
Disco Lord: MA/SR Scrapper (Triumph)
CoV:
Spec-tor: MC/PA Dominator (Triumph)
The Regional Manager: Merc/FF MM (Triumph)
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Q. Base Pathing issues, why was pathing changed?
A. The base pathing was never intended to be changed. The fix for it was not simple though, so it took some time for the programming team to get the fix in. We are actively looking at ways to make the pathing system easier for base builders, however, in the future there may be pathing requirements for raiding.
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We've been told that when the pathing rules are put back in that it will be optional to use them or keep the no pathing setup that's currently on test. However, your statement sounds more like the current test setup people are excited about coming to live may be removed in the future for raid pathing's return. Will people that have no intention of base raiding be able to keep the no pathing option or will we once more be forced into having to design around a system we have no use for?