[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for addressing our concerns.
This response of yours raised a question of mine:[ QUOTE ]
Q. Whats happening to Rent?
A. Rent still exists, but it has been reduced dramatically. Rent is no longer charged by plot size, and is instead based on the number of utility items in the base.
These are the items that charge rent:
- Storage bins: 100 prestige per bin.
- Workbenches, and Enhancement terminals: 100 per tier
- Medical Items: 100 per item, excluding Basic Reclaimator
No rent is charged for basic utility items like Teleporters, Teleport beacons, Medical Reclaimator's, Basic Work Tables, and Invention work tables. Rent free bases of any size can still be built, with all the normal utilities available. In the future, we will be looking into improving how rent is charged as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
These changes represent an increase in rent for me, as I was able to fit things on the default, 0-rent plot size, and paying any rent is an increase.
I deliberately kept things small to avoid the rent, and villainside it's relatively easy to get all of the essentials without increasing plot size - since there are fewer zones, there are fewer teleporters needed, less power and control needed to power them, and storage just takes up space and not either control or power.
So, the question - are there any plans to continue to excuse the default plot size from rent, since your response seems to indicate that the desire was to reduce rent?
[/ QUOTE ]
/Signed
My base right now basically consists of ONLY the items you pay rent for, all on a minimum plot size. I'm moving from no rent to almost maximum possible rent. How is this a reduction?
There is also the matter of rent administration. Someone has t actually go pay the rent. In a casual group, that's tricky, because SG leaders take breaks from the game and might not be around for one or two weeks - and the base goes down. Having a rent-free base removed this obstacle.
Why don't you just skip rent? ts so trivial its mainly an administrative chore anyway.
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I'm sorry, nobody is buying the 'it is too confusing' line. Anyone so befuddled by two different types of salvage shouldn't be out on the internet unchaperoned.
[/ QUOTE ]
My SG mate saw some Elite Chain Guns arranged nicely in a coalition base and wanted to place them in our base.
He gave up. Why? The current base salvage system is indeed more complex than what they are proposing (and needlessly so). He grew frustrated with the very specific recipes required to make components and the mind-numbing amount of useless base slavage that won't combine into anything of value. He didn't know that the Supercollider could craft all salvage and was frustrated with jumping from one work bench to another. We also have an IO crafting table and thus lack one of the three tiers of worktables. Oops, without using a Buff Station, he was occluded from even crafting tier 2 salvage.
That is a lot of speific and largely esoteric knowledge required to make a base item. The new sysytem is: look at recipe, buy the 3 to 5 invention salvage required from the market interface, then craft. That's it.
The whole process of turning Base salvage into Component salvage is a useless step and I am glad that it is gone. Two of my 4 SG mates are already excited about the new base system and cost structure.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll be the first to admit the old system is far from perfect. But what the devs have been calling 'confusing' isn't the crafting process itself. They have been saying that the players are confused by the presence of two kinds of salvage. That when they see 'Salvage Found' they are confused about what kind of salvage they are getting. As other people have pointed out, then how can players be expected to understand Merits and Vanguard Merits, or a host of other similarly named items in the game?
"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."
Welcome.
The thing I am most excited about is the Construction Forum having its own Red Name! W00t!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
nvm, I misread the part I was quoting. Please ignore this message. Thank you. (Exit, stage right)
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Welcome to the forums!
I like anything that means things are easier to obtain. The idea of needing to become unemployed, getting divorce papers, evicted from the house for not keeping up repayments or for sanitory, health and safety reasons, having the kids grow up knowing the back of your head just to obtain the ultimate goal in bases was never a good idea.
[ QUOTE ]
There have been many posts on the Closed Beta boards and here that Ive wanted to answer. Id like to answer as many of those critical questions as I can.
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Fantastic! Welcome, and thank you for addressing some of our concerns. I, for one, am happy that you guys are addressing the refund issue, and I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Btw Sunstorm, in case it isn't obvious enough yet ... 
Knowing that we aren't screaming at maximum volume into an empty room anymore is a tremendous lift to morale in the Base Builder community. Seriously.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Empowerment stations were limited to common salvage, so they would still be fairly cheap (With a few exceptions). However empowerment buffs are on my radar to be looked at.
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I suggestion I'll throw at you, though I doubt it could be ready for i13 launch..
Change empowerment stations to create unique inspirations with the current buffs. SGs could premake these and store them in the higher density inspiration collectors. This allows people to have Empowerments quickly available without having to go to the market, while making the low storage limit less inconvenient (at least for empowerment purposes)
Also, a workaround re: holiday storage. Since characters can carry unlimited event salvage, it would be (relatively) easy for a few SG members to hold onto most of the event salvage, and just "top off" one or two racks whenever they get low.
"Trust me, it worked in the Simpsons." - Calash
Very good to read. We know we're being heard and I can see the willingness to change things in the future to address our concerns based on how it impacts the game. Nice.
Good Morning Sunstorm,
My first question of the morning: Is the 30 Salvage Limitation still on the table for discussion before the estimated launch date of Issue 13 or do we need to wait for launch and data mining?
Impish Kat has established the 30 limit will not be sufficient for those converting Base > Brainstorm > Invention. So I am curious if we need to keep discussing it now or wait?
Happy friday
~Plas
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
1295 Badges
http://GuardianForce.Guildportal.com - Virtue
Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
[ QUOTE ]
We want to add new base decorations, new permissions features, and a few more goodies as well. We are still working on these, and they will be added in as we can get them completed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Saayy.... Any chance we'll get access to beanie bag chairs, lava lamps and disco balls?
@Tian; @Scion of Tian
A peaceful place, so it looks from space. A close look reveals the human race.
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Q. Base Pathing issues, why was pathing changed?
A. The base pathing was never intended to be changed. The fix for it was not simple though, so it took some time for the programming team to get the fix in. We are actively looking at ways to make the pathing system easier for base builders, however, in the future there may be pathing requirements for raiding.
[/ QUOTE ]
We've been told that when the pathing rules are put back in that it will be optional to use them or keep the no pathing setup that's currently on test. However, your statement sounds more like the current test setup people are excited about coming to live may be removed in the future for raid pathing's return. Will people that have no intention of base raiding be able to keep the no pathing option or will we once more be forced into having to design around a system we have no use for?
[/ QUOTE ]
The bold part - I think that qualifier means, if you want raiding happening, certain rules will apply for pathing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, in can be interpreted that way, but it can also be taken to mean that future pathing for raiding may mean doing away with the no pathing rules setup. I'm just trying to get some clarification on the matter before I spend a few hundred game hours decorating my base in a manner that may have to be redone later to fit a possible change in the system.
so things like combat logs and auto doc will add another 100 to the rent?
Just adding my bleated 'thank you' for stepping up, Sunstorm.
Things to remember:
-Common sense ain't;
-Overkill is the only kill;
-If someone asks if you're a god, run away.
First -- Welcome Sunstorm! Our own redname!! *HUGS* 
Second -- WOOOO! Thank you for the prestige refund! I know that wasn't trivial to calculate
Third -- I would most definitely be happy to show you our primary base, Sentinels United. Virtue server, @darkskye or @darkskies are my globals.
Fourth -- Please do try to find a way to separate holiday/event salvage from invention salvage. And consider upping the number of IO salvage to 50, please? That remains my primary gripe about i13's changes. I'm coming to like everything else the more I see it.
And fifth -- just to reiterate, WELCOME
--Virtue--
My 50s:
Tigra Swipe (BS/SR/Dark Scrapper)
Galena Storm (Emp/Ele/Ele Defender)
Master Tolarin (Psi/Fire/Force Blaster)
[ QUOTE ]
Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items. As soon a player loads into a base, that base will automatically refund the Prestige difference. This is crucial: the base must be entered in order to trigger the Prestige refund. If your base is not loaded, then the refund will not happen until someone enters it.
Teleporter recipes: The Rare salvage requirement on these should be removed in the next patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
I love you. Will you have my babies?
*ahem* Okay, real question after that good news...the base changes, not the proposal
Q: Has there been any thought to increasing the number of storage items per base, perhaps tying it into the plot size?
It seems honestly kinda silly to me that an 8x8 plot and a 24x24 have the same amount of storage. I wouldn't recommend a gigantic change myself, something like 18 at 8x8, 20 at 8x12, 22 at 12x12, maybe? Perhaps diminishing to 1 more per plot-size 'step' when you get to the really huge bases?
Q: There are a number of decorative items whose looks exist in-game (in Pocket D, flung by gravity controllers/dominators, and so forth), any thoughts about adding those to the list of decoratives? I've a bar that is begging for barstools, and the Warren's other leader would about kill for a pool table of his very own.
Q: My curiosity...this might be better put in I14, I dunno. One thing I would love to be able to do is resize items, decorative and storage items at least (the inspiration collector is frankly enormous). Any chance that might be possible someday?
Thanks for taking the time to talk with us, Sunstorm. Here are a few questions I had after reading your answers.
[ QUOTE ]
Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?
A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.
Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with the 30 invention salvage limit, but I am a little curious about the difficulty in adding a separate limit for event salvage. Could you add a different type of salvage bin for event salvage only, and thereby allow it to hold more? It's a clunky solution, but it might serve as a stopgap if making a single container with differing limits is too hard to do right now.
[ QUOTE ]
Q. Whats happening to Rent?
A. Rent still exists, but it has been reduced dramatically. Rent is no longer charged by plot size, and is instead based on the number of utility items in the base.
These are the items that charge rent:
- Storage bins: 100 prestige per bin.
- Workbenches, and Enhancement terminals: 100 per tier
- Medical Items: 100 per item, excluding Basic Reclaimator
No rent is charged for basic utility items like Teleporters, Teleport beacons, Medical Reclaimator's, Basic Work Tables, and Invention work tables. Rent free bases of any size can still be built, with all the normal utilities available. In the future, we will be looking into improving how rent is charged as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
As other posters have mentioned, this is a serious potential drawback for some. I'm a member of several supergroups that currently have minimum plot size bases, and thus had no rent for their bases. The new system is a serious disappointment for me. Even with the new discounts, a larger base is extremely expensive for a small group to afford, but now we won't even be able to save up for it without paying rent. I really do not understand just what it this change is trying to accomplish. What purpose is rent supposed to serve in this game?
I know way back in Asheron's Call houses had periodic rent, but there each house was unique, and thus the rent served to keep innactive accounts from choking off the supply. Bases in Co* are not unique, so that doesn't seem to be an issue. I had thought the purpose was to serve as a "cost" for a well defended PvP fortress, but the new system charges nothing for that either. Could you explain the philosophy behind the new rent structure?
[ QUOTE ]
Q. Base Pathing issues, why was pathing changed?
A. The base pathing was never intended to be changed. The fix for it was not simple though, so it took some time for the programming team to get the fix in. We are actively looking at ways to make the pathing system easier for base builders, however, in the future there may be pathing requirements for raiding.
[/ QUOTE ]
Could you clarify this further: would future pathing requirements be mandatory for all bases, or only for bases that wish to participate in PvP? I can understand the need for pathing requirements in PvP, but it is a LOT more fun to decorate a base without those restrictions. Can we keep the unpathed option available?
That's it for now. Thanks again!
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
Wow!!!! I am so geeked by this new information I can't contain myself. Love the new Rent feature... it is much more reasonable for us smaller sg's that want huges bases! I'm not real happy about the storage but I do understand the reasoning behind it and glad that it is not final.
This new direction of communication is very exciting. Being able to recieve this much information is thrilling and show's a continuous bright future ahead for CoX and I'm glad to be apart of this ride.
One question that I have: Has the Influ conversion to Prestige been discussed and if so will there be any changes? The amount of Influ used to turn into Prestige at the current exchange rate is just not worth using.... Great concept, but definitely needs tweaking.
Thanks for the info
If its broke, don't fix it... I like the chaos!
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My SG mate saw some Elite Chain Guns arranged nicely in a coalition base and wanted to place them in our base.
He gave up. Why? The current base salvage system is indeed more complex than what they are proposing (and needlessly so).
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a hard time understanding this when there are basic Chain Guns that look exactly like the Elites, for the exact same cost, and have NO CRAFTING WHATSOEVER.
Welcome!
[ QUOTE ]
Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items. As soon a player loads into a base, that base will automatically refund the Prestige difference. This is crucial: the base must be entered in order to trigger the Prestige refund. If your base is not loaded, then the refund will not happen until someone enters it.
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So what will this mean for our old salvage racks we currently have filled with halloween masks and candy canes in our bases? After this, will they still be the old-style 999-limit base salvage racks, or will this auto-change default them to the more limited versions? Should we buy up some of the good salvage racks before the update, or will that just not work because after the update they'll default to work like the new ones?
[ QUOTE ]
Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?
A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.
Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.
[/ QUOTE ]
As someone who's learned to love the market, I can very much understand this one. Although having the supply dry up a bit might be better for me personally, since I don't craft IOs or much else, and more use the market to make early money by selling all the luck charms I can. My boyfriend realized what a capitalist I was when I discovered the market. Too bad I can't translate into real life.
[ QUOTE ]
Q. Base Pathing issues, why was pathing changed?
A. The base pathing was never intended to be changed. The fix for it was not simple though, so it took some time for the programming team to get the fix in. We are actively looking at ways to make the pathing system easier for base builders, however, in the future there may be pathing requirements for raiding.
[/ QUOTE ]
If given the option of raid-restrictive pathing vs fun base layouts, I'll choose the latter every time. If raids could exist while still allowing me to be able to place things as we currently can on the test server, I'll be much more inclined to give it a try. But if we get great layout abilities this time only to have it nerfed next issue due to raiding, I'd actively avoid it out of spite. Hey, I'm human that way.
PvP has rarely interested me in this game because it's not an integrated feature but instead a destination -- an event you must choose to take part in at a separate location. I like in WoW where the good and bad guys exist in one world and I get a setting to choose if someone can attack me or not, a default I usually set to "go ahead, attack" when given the option. But as is in CoH, I have no real reasons to go into PvP specific zones.
Yeah, I know that drifted from bases there at the end, but apparently it's all connected due to raids, so there ya go.
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The secure and hidden plots have the same prices for the same sizes. Bug? or can you give us insight into a design goal?
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Good question. This relates to the original goal of the base repricing, which was giving players access to make better raidable bases.
[/ QUOTE ]
But it's your goal to make that better raid capability free?
Let me phrase the question differently:
Why would I use a Hidden 16x16 plot?
I can have the Secure for the exact same price AND a 2nd Supercomputer instead upgrading to the AES which costs more than 2 Supercomputers plus needs this giant room.
QR
I dont think not having enough time to get 2k prestige every 6 weeks or lose your base is an issue. If you have an energy terminal in your base, you automatically get 50k back. Another 50k for the tier 2 tele room. That's a minimum of 25 payments. That will cover over 2 years worth. And since everything else you buy will be much cheaper, I think it's a win.
The only thing I don't like about the new rent system is the same as the old one. No direct pay. I actually had to coalition my SGs just so I can use the other's teleporters when one of the bases get shut down and I can't use the base to get to the place to pay. It would be nice to be able to just "send" my payments in. At the new rate they are charging us, I'd even pay tripple the rent rate if I could have auto deductions. I wouldn't even blink at 10x. it's still cheaper than what rent is now.
As of now my SGs have enough prestige that I dont have to worry about paying rent for 10 years. With the HUGE price changes and auto refunds, that 10 years just became forever. I think paying a tiny rent is easy enough. More of an inconvience than work.
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new question.
with what posi said this issue would be a huge overhaul and was just re-pricing.
why are we not opening items/ decorative etc to the bases?
there are a TON of stuff including statues,all the stuff from the giza,fountains etc that would be awesome to have. waiting for a better editor is fine. but really newer items would have been better.
i just want new stuff to add to my base. i dont wanna pvp,i dont plan on pvping in my new cheaper base.
your excluding the pve side of this game and its not making people happy.
just adding new stuff in would have made a ton of people happ-ier
why cant we get the items already "in-game" opened up?
[/ QUOTE ]
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wow first day on the job and past my question like i was standing still..
i feel so happy now.
seriously id like my question answered.
why dont you open some of the ingame items that already exsist?
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Please, give them time, and stop acting like a spoiled child. Here is some cheese to go with your whine. On second thought I am taking your whine away, I want to see proof of your age.(RL bartender)
They have read our concerns, they have actually acted on our concerns and made many positive changes.
I for one welcome Sunstorm to the Forums. Very happy "Base Builders" now has an "official" Dev.
Thanks for making it possible to get a room refund without tearing my base apart,really do not want to loose my triple doorways.
Which brings me to my next question, will we ever be able to put doorways side by side? This feature(bug) makes for an awesome base layout. 
Another concern is with the maximum 18 storage unit per base. Are there any plans on changing this in the future?
edited to add 2nd question
I believe our children are our future and I reflect on the lessons and values we taught them.
I believe the world has many real Villains,what we need are more Heroes.
*May you all be a hero in someone's life.*
[ QUOTE ]
Q. Base salvage, why replace it, and what will happen to it?
...base salvage tends to ...be a source of confusion with Invention salvage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sunstorm,
honey,
sweetheart....
Practically NOBODY is buying into this argument.
Please stop. Stop, for the love of Bast, STOP using it!
It's insulting.
Really.
[ QUOTE ]
Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?
A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.
Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.
[/ QUOTE ]
There are a few problems with this argument.
1. The conversion process itself creates more salvage than can be held.
2. The supply is going to dry up regardless, because you are effectively removing a supply source, while simultaneously increasing demand with base building and dual builds. Since there has been no indication that salvage drop rates will go up to cover this loss, there will be shortages. Period. It will happen. Nerfing the salvage racks so drastically is not going to make it happen any less. Raising the capacity is not going to make it happen any more.
3. As has been pointed out several times, the 30 item limit is far below what a lvl 50 could carry. Is it really your intention to have us turn our lvl 50's into mules? I personally do not have a lvl 50 (several alts, I do not PL), so I would be at a distinct disadvantage. And I don't relish the thought of asking my other SG leaders to turn their lvl 50's into mules. Frankly, the necessity for muling is what turned me off from other games.
As for the change to invention salvage overall.... I can only repeat what I've said before:
[color=#37FDFC]Choosing to play the market as an individual is one thing, forcing the individual to do it for the group is just wrong. [color= #FFFFFF]
However.... It is obvious that we are past the point of no return. I encourage you to re-evaluate the storage capacity issues at the very least. Perhaps, as some have suggested, take an item that is already in the system, and tweak it to accept the special event salvage. I think it would go a long way toward good faith with the community.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Quote:
|
Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
[ QUOTE ]
why dont you open some of the ingame items that already exsist?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think your question is irrelevant to the current topic of I13 changes. We know who to talk to now about Bases, as long as we keep it civil, I expect we'll see plenty of communication in the future. Give Sunstorm a break, we'll ambush him about adding new shinies later.