[ QUOTE ]
The paying of rent will start out with you gaining all of your prestige back, then as you continue to pay rent after rent, your going to LOSE IT ALL, in almost the same way as losing money in a pyramid scheme.
FOR EXAMPLE-
I have 100 prestige, the rent costs 2000 based on all of the items in your base, you bust your hump to make the other 1900, and based upon the "new" way, you won't be gaining anything, because you wanted a base, and now you are paying an added tax to KEEP the items in the base.
That next month, you are now boxed into just working for prestige to keep the base. never mind that you have a ZERO BALENCE in the prestige.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have to concede that you are forming your hypothesis based on some pretty far fetched presumptions.
It seems like you are operating under the assumption that, as the owner(s) of a functional super group base, you should never need to play the game in super group mode. Even if this is the case; inviting one alt to a truly solo super group grants 15000 prestige. That alone is enough to pay "maxed" rent for about 42 weeks.
2000 prestige is a pretty trivial sum. Ludicrously more so if you've managed to accumulate enough prestige to buy the items that would generate that much rent in the first place.
Not to be antagonistic, but it really seems like you're trying awfully hard to make something out of nothing here.
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Noted Ex.
I would say however, that perhaps we can as a community offer Sunstorm a tour of our bases as an organized event? Would that be possible?
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Excellent idea!!!
Thanks for giving us our own redname for bases Posi. Welcome Sunstorm.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, let's work on something like this.
Send me your ideas on how to make this work to my PM or email at exlibris@ncsoft.com
Ex
[/ QUOTE ]
instead of wading through all these pages of quasi answers; are the changes finalized? I see Plasma's new guide....is this baked then with i13 close, I'd assume so.
I was doing a big base overhaul today and was told I may be wasting my time.
I am excited at the base prospects for new SGs and players; I hope that Veteran SGs with bases built over years and now static are not being penalized or have to rebuild things. We have 4 very large bases, and 4+ medium ones. Most we are completely content with....I am still searching for what, if anything, happens to existing bases.....
[ QUOTE ]
I am excited at the base prospects for new SGs and players; I hope that Veteran SGs with bases built over years and now static are not being penalized or have to rebuild things. We have 4 very large bases, and 4+ medium ones. Most we are completely content with....I am still searching for what, if anything, happens to existing bases.....
[/ QUOTE ]They remain exactly the same, and get the prestige difference between old and new costs refunded when someone enters the base.
[ QUOTE ]
T was pointing out thier opinon and I posted mine.
Facts are what is lacking in the whole issue of bases. If I haven't been given the reasoning behind the WHY, then I have an opinion based on what I have.
T didn't think through my argument, and her FACTS are only thier own specualtion.
What was the point of quoting her own opinion, anyway? All they did was to misquote me and post quotes in such a way as to sound like a total poof with thier own smart [censored] OPINIONS.
The paying of rent will start out with you gaining all of your prestige back, then as you continue to pay rent after rent, your going to LOSE IT ALL, in almost the same way as losing money in a pyramid scheme.
FOR EXAMPLE-
I have 100 prestige, the rent costs 2000 based on all of the items in your base, you bust your hump to make the other 1900, and based upon the "new" way, you won't be gaining anything, because you wanted a base, and now you are paying an added tax to KEEP the items in the base.
That next month, you are now boxed into just working for prestige to keep the base. never mind that you have a ZERO BALENCE in the prestige.
With the way the new way is, if you have prestige in the coffers, your going to lose it because you pay rent per month, and deminished return of earning it with the other distractions of I13 are going to leave most small bases at a loss.
Now you want to go another way?
Based on the information given by the Dev's, don't even think about having a COP runable base.
The cost for the items alone is going to break your INF, and the cost to keep the items will break your Prestige.
Remember the Mission Computer? Its still a joke. It still has one whopping mission for the cost of all of that. THAT was already asked to have a fix to it, ever since the stupid thing came out. FORGET IT NOW. Silly me for thinking I can even have one. Now you need it for the COP, you can't have it because you are already in a negative for prestige for having at least half of the other items in the base.
How much will the useless mission computer cost in prestige, again?
We already went through this prestige paying rent phase. The solution was for basic plots to have NO RENT.
NOW we are being told that we will pay, JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TO PUT ITEMS IN THE BASE.
Of course, we can always go back and remember that there IS NO COP, even though we have all asked for it, when we were asked what we wanted.
I don't remember anyone ASKING for the reccomendation of paying rent AGAIN.
We asked for CHEAPER PRICES, QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES, and fixing the base permissions.
Tabula Rasa had a single player storage crate, so that right there tells me that it is possible.
Now. with these facts on the table. Which ones are wrong?
[/ QUOTE ]
As usual, T is deliberatly cutting and pasting to be a tool.
Read where it says... FOR EXAMPLE.
I pulled out a number to be easy and to explain my point, now I know your being deliberatly ignorant, stupid, obtuse or your just trying to be borishly clever.
Thanks for the direct to the guide though,
Now you can go compile how much of your "Prestige Refund" you are going to lose each and every month.
That will teach you small SG's out there to live outside of your means and keep you in your place.
You'll find out soon enough why they removed rent from basic plots.
Point and click to your hearts content, as long as you try reading it, this time and stop misquoting my posts...
Most of those complaining seems to be using arguments that in reality are almost non existent.
"ThrillKillKult", you use as an example, a SG with 2000 prestige rent who finds they "bust your hump to make it" That means that on the average they have enough storage capacity for 200 Salvage, 600, inspirations and 600 enhancements!!!
To truly USE that amount of storage just how much play time do you think they are doing? How many members do you think they have!!! 50?, 25?, 10? 6? Let's say we go with the rediculus low number of 6.
That's right they each have there very own storage containers! 
That means they need to each make 300 Prestige to pay there rent. I can make 300 prestige in 20 seconds of gaming. Yep. Really need to BUST MY HUMP to do that.
Heck if that's "Busting your hump!" What is it when a loved one asks you to take out the trash? "A torturous trip to the very bowels of Hell, to look into the abyss and smell the stench of all that is unholy within!!!"
Forget paying rent, My question is why a SG that actually NEEDS 18 storage units isn't raking in prestige so fast that the expenditure of 1,800 is even noticed.
Never mind the fact that that, that large of an SG almost assuredly has at the VERY least a Basic control center that I13 refunded them at least 50,000 prestige. In other words the first YEAR is 100% rent free just from the saving of that one room for this mythical SMALL SG that needs 18 Storage units!!!
Likewise "Snowglobe", you're proposing an SG group that is so big AND so active that it needs storage for OVER 200 costume pieces (6 storage bins) yet is so small or inactive that when said person carrying the costume pieces decides to leave they can't find any one to give them to. Not even a friend out side of the SG.
FURTHERMORE You're proposing an SG where this phantom costume piece supplier is so caring of his SG members and so trusting as to leave all these costume pieces in the salvage containers pre I13. Yet now post I13 he can't solve the problem by simply giving 10% of the Costume pieces to the top ten SG members in the SG group as he gets them.
Could these mythical, dysfunctional SGs exist? Sure. Are these 5 SGs anything I want the devs spending any further time modifying the game for. Nope.
HP Lovecat
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[ QUOTE ]
The paying of rent will start out with you gaining all of your prestige back, then as you continue to pay rent after rent, your going to LOSE IT ALL, in almost the same way as losing money in a pyramid scheme.
FOR EXAMPLE-
I have 100 prestige, the rent costs 2000 based on all of the items in your base, you bust your hump to make the other 1900, and based upon the "new" way, you won't be gaining anything, because you wanted a base, and now you are paying an added tax to KEEP the items in the base.
That next month, you are now boxed into just working for prestige to keep the base. never mind that you have a ZERO BALENCE in the prestige.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have to concede that you are forming your hypothesis based on some pretty far fetched presumptions.
It seems like you are operating under the assumption that, as the owner(s) of a functional super group base, you should never need to play the game in super group mode. Even if this is the case; inviting one alt to a truly solo super group grants 15000 prestige. That alone is enough to pay "maxed" rent for about 42 weeks.
2000 prestige is a pretty trivial sum. Ludicrously more so if you've managed to accumulate enough prestige to buy the items that would generate that much rent in the first place.
Not to be antagonistic, but it really seems like you're trying awfully hard to make something out of nothing here.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am operating with my past of playing the game when Bases just showed up. When 2 people played the game in SG, and watched as the prestige dried up because you either have to make a choice to play in SG mode, or you play to make Infamy.
The new "Improvement" rolls back the clock to smallest plots paying so that you can't do anything with it, because your busy playing to pay the bills.
I am not making an assumption. Im making a judgement based on past playing experience. I used the 2000 as an easy to post number to explain my point.
The "Rent" is just a smokescreen. I don't feel that I should have to play continuously as a wage slave. We have jobs in real life. we are supposed to be " Superheros" in game. what superheros do you know that pays rent for no purpose?
Heck, at least the Fantastic Four have a serious building. or Batman has a house.
What do we get? A blue column in the middle of the public square.
The 2000 could easily be 20,000 or 200,000. you are going to lose it for no other reason other then because. I make the eqation to a pyramid sceme, because you are going to continue to pay until the "prestige refund" is going to dry up if you don't continue to play in SG mode.
Look at T's guide to the obcene? the items in question are still going to cost you to buy them, but now you have the added pleasure of losing prestige to pay rent on the base, and the items inside it, too.
What is the reason or sense of paying for something you bought for your prestige more then once?
If we have to pay for these things every month, why not charge a power bill, gas bill, and teleportation fee every time we use the teleporter, then?
What is the payment of the prestige funding, anyway? The buses don't run, the police are useless, and the gangs pretty much do what they want to.
Look over the list of changed items. you are going to have to pay the rent, no matter the size of the base. Add this to the fact that you are only going to put 30 pieces of salvage in the bin, and you are being penalized for being successful.
You keep using hyperbole to try to make "a minute worth of playing in SG mode" sound like a terrible ordeal.
You have so far reffered to "a minute of your time" spent thus as,
"Busting your hump!"
"play continuously as a wage slave"
"can't do anything with it, because your busy playing to pay the bills."
and
"A Pyramid Scheme" (Please look up "Pyramid Scheme". The word does not mean what you seem to think it means!")
As I said before and you haven't responded, If a minute in SG mode is "Busting your hump!" What is it when a loved one asks you to take out the trash? "A torturous trip to the very bowels of Hell, to look into the abyss and smell the stench of all that is unholy within!!!"
You said.
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Im making a judgement based on past playing experience.
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Earlier you said.
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I am operating with my past of playing the game when Bases just showed up...
[/ QUOTE ]
In other words you are making your assumptions based on out dated information!!!!
I just logged on for a minute with HP Lovecat. A level 50 controller designed to Buff and control. NOT to do damage. In under a minute she killed 2 death mages for 316 prestige.
I logged onto Cathulhu. A level 35 Kheldian, designed to do damage. She racked up 7,000 prestige in 15 minutes of game play.
Do you really think each SG member (in a small 5 person SG) needing to play less then a minute every 2 weeks in SG mode is such a HUGE imposition? A pyramid scheme? Or any amount of Hyperbole you choose to throw?
HP Lovecat
[ QUOTE ]
I am operating with my past of playing the game when Bases just showed up. When 2 people played the game in SG, and watched as the prestige dried up because you either have to make a choice to play in SG mode, or you play to make Infamy.
[/ QUOTE ]...well, considering you can now get prestige *and* inf up until 50, I don't see this as a problem.
[ QUOTE ]
The 2000 could easily be 20,000 or 200,000.
[/ QUOTE ]No, it can't. The max rent you can *possibly* pay under this new system is 2400...and that's if you for some reason decide to have all 6 Empowerment Stations.
That's the maximum ever possible.
Read that sentence verrrry carefully.
As Cathulhu, that amount of prestige is trivial, even for a one-person SG.
Is this somehow hard for you to understand?
ThrillKill...are you forgetting that now at this point in the game, one can run in SG mode and STILL gain INF?
It may only be 50% of what was generated by not running in SG mode, but it certainly is better than the 0% that was given before.
I currently pay just over 100k a month for rent on the base that I have right now. After this change I'm looking at only paying about 3k.. AT MOST. We were making it just fine the old way, and with the new way we'll pull even farther ahead quicker. One only needs to pop into SG mode for at most a couple of minutes and you will have all the prestige you need to pay for this small increase in rent that your base might be having. Is that such a burden?
Any change will sadly affect some people in a slightly more negative way than others. That's just how it works. Remember the adage of pleasing all of the people all of the time?
Yes, there have been things that have been asked for for some time that aren't currently implemented. Is it sad that some of them haven't' been done yet. Sure thing, but the level of spleen I'm hearing from you makes it sound as though there's nothing positive at all in the upcoming changes.
From what I gather reading some of the other forums, there was an even more extensive base revamp that was being worked on that had to be scrapped because it made some thing even worse. That's how programming goes. Sometimes things work better and sometimes they don't. Maybe some of the changes you wanted were in the functionality they had to scrap, and most likely they'll be bringing it back in at some point.
I, for one, have faith in the process.
Arc #1267 The Key of Brass and Flame
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I am operating with my past of playing the game when Bases just showed up. When 2 people played the game in SG, and watched as the prestige dried up because you either have to make a choice to play in SG mode, or you play to make Infamy.
[/ QUOTE ]...well, considering you can now get prestige *and* inf up until 50, I don't see this as a problem.
[ QUOTE ]
The 2000 could easily be 20,000 or 200,000.
[/ QUOTE ]No, it can't. The max rent you can *possibly* pay under this new system is 2400...and that's if you for some reason decide to have all 6 Empowerment Stations.
That's the maximum ever possible.
Read that sentence verrrry carefully.
As Cathulhu, that amount of prestige is trivial, even for a one-person SG.
Is this somehow hard for you to understand?
[/ QUOTE ]Don't bother with him, hon. He just refuses to acknowledge he's wrong because he's invested too much of his own ego in being right. If you were to tell him the sky were blue he'd insist it was a pleasing shade of puce, instead.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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The new "Improvement" rolls back the clock to smallest plots paying so that you can't do anything with it, because your busy playing to pay the bills.
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You probably spent more time typing that whole rant than the time it will take to earn one payment of rent.
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In my sg, we've had a few members drop the game unexpectedly, but they put donations from last year's events into the base salvage racks right away.
[/ QUOTE ]
And just how many drop so unexpectedly that they can't simply trade off all their event salvage to another Group Mate before they go?
[/ QUOTE ]
We've had 5 in the last year.
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Anyway, the Devs need to make a game economy decision here: Is event salvage meant to be a marketable commodity where there is hoarding or not? If they allow personal hording, then they should allow for base hoarding. And eventually put in a new type of storage. If they don't want hoarding, then there should be a cap on how much a player can hold (say, about 100 for canes and 4 each for costumes) so that players will fill the market. I find that allowing player hoarding but not allowing base hoarding is illogical.
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Except my point is not about hoarding at all. It does have to do with having a "rainy day fund" of parts to reconstruct accidentally deleted items.
And then there are the empowerment stations. We had each base strictly themed either arcane or tech. This allowed all donations of the other type to be converted to empowerment buffs.
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Besides, though a dev has never said so, I'm guessing that having rack after rack of salvage with 999 in each rack was a database issue, similar to the problems of having too many items in the Market DB (which all loads at once to a player's computer); and is also a problem for the costume editor for the same reason. I don't think the devs would be amenable to unlimited storage containers. Again, just a guess on my part.
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Without the ability to correct any accidental deletions the developers support splintering of bases and are causing more database strain than the base salvage ever could.
With the sickly amount of "storage" the new bins has we simply cannot store enough for me to allow anyone access to edit the main bases. So people that want to play with bases have to make splinter groups. All this does is strain the databases even more than having up to 18 salvage racks hold 2,500 items. This directly flies in the face of wanting more players to use the base system.
The developers (and you) still haven't provided an answer to these points:
<ul type="square">[*]Any group member that needed salvage for either empowerment buffs or base crafting can get it, even if no one else is on.[*]Any group member can deposit salvage, even if no one else is on.[*]It eliminates having to track down which character has what salvage.[*]No place to temporarily store crafted items while deleting/moving rooms.[/list]All these were the reason the items were introduced in the first place.
These new bins hold less than ONE character. During initial testing of the storage items with base salvage it was the same. This was pointed out to the developers, and was changed before the storage racks went to the live servers.
Bottom line: As the salvage racks are with Issue 13, they are practically useless for my needs as a base builder.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
OMG
I cannot believe you guys are still feeding this troll. I put that guy on ignore as soon as I realized he only wanted to rant.
This was supposed to be a Q&A thread. Y'know... where we direct our questions to Sunstorm.
What happened to our calm, cool and collected community?
Quote:
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
[ QUOTE ]
This was supposed to be a Q&A thread. Y'know... where we direct our questions to Sunstorm.
What happened to our calm, cool and collected community?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, for myself, I'm wondering when Sunstorm will be back to answer the questions posed in this thread.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Is is any wonder he hasn't been back, when we allow trolls to veer us so far off track?
And yes, I include myself when I say "we" and "us", I've been culpable. But I'm trying to step back to say: Hey, maybe we should re-focus to the original intent of the thread. Maybe we should take discussions to the Base Forums, where we can hash things out to our hearts' content.
/shrug
Just sayin'
PS
I'm not too surprised that Sunstorm hasn't been back. He's probably as busy as everyone else, polishing i13 up for release. At this point, it's nearly "in the can", as they say, and I'm sure there's all kinds of loose ends that need tidying up.
Quote:
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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The paying of rent will start out with you gaining all of your prestige back, then as you continue to pay rent after rent, your going to LOSE IT ALL, in almost the same way as losing money in a pyramid scheme.
FOR EXAMPLE-
I have 100 prestige, the rent costs 2000 based on all of the items in your base, you bust your hump to make the other 1900, and based upon the "new" way, you won't be gaining anything, because you wanted a base, and now you are paying an added tax to KEEP the items in the base.
That next month, you are now boxed into just working for prestige to keep the base. never mind that you have a ZERO BALENCE in the prestige.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have to concede that you are forming your hypothesis based on some pretty far fetched presumptions.
2000 prestige is a pretty trivial sum. Ludicrously more so if you've managed to accumulate enough prestige to buy the items that would generate that much rent in the first place.
Not to be antagonistic, but it really seems like you're trying awfully hard to make something out of nothing here.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am operating with my past of playing the game when Bases just showed up. When 2 people played the game in SG, and watched as the prestige dried up because you either have to make a choice to play in SG mode, or you play to make Infamy.
The new "Improvement" rolls back the clock to smallest plots paying so that you can't do anything with it, because your busy playing to pay the bills.
I am not making an assumption. Im making a judgement based on past playing experience. I used the 2000 as an easy to post number to explain my point.
The "Rent" is just a smokescreen. I don't feel that I should have to play continuously as a wage slave. We have jobs in real life. we are supposed to be " Superheros" in game. what superheros do you know that pays rent for no purpose?
Heck, at least the Fantastic Four have a serious building. or Batman has a house.
What do we get? A blue column in the middle of the public square.
The 2000 could easily be 20,000 or 200,000. you are going to lose it for no other reason other then because. I make the equation to a pyramid sceme, because you are going to continue to pay until the "prestige refund" is going to dry up if you don't continue to play in SG mode.
Look at T's guide to the obcene? The items in question are still going to cost you to buy them, but now you have the added pleasure of losing prestige to pay rent on the base, and the items inside it, too.
What is the reason or sense of paying for something you bought for your prestige more then once?
If we have to pay for these things every month, why not charge a power bill, gas bill, and teleportation fee every time we use the teleporter, then?
What is the payment of the prestige funding, anyway? The buses don't run, the police are useless, and the gangs pretty much do what they want to.
Look over the list of changed items. you are going to have to pay the rent, no matter the size of the base. Add this to the fact that you are only going to put 30 pieces of salvage in the bin, and you are being penalized for being successful.
[/ QUOTE ]
Cut and paste, cut and paste. Now read what I wrote without being a tool about it.
Ok, you want a question, heres one-
Why am I paying rent in the first place?
Heres another one-
Why are we paying rent on the basic plot bases when I was stuck in the first place, having to get the basic plot so I wouldn't have to pay rent? I don't want to throw prestige away unless you give me a reason other then, because I said so.
Heres another question-
If I get my prestige refunded, and I have to pay rent, is it really a refund?
Here is a hypothertical example,
I have a base, and three people making prestige, say 1-1000 over a pay period. thats 3000 totaled for the days playing.
If my prestige is over 3000, and I have 3000. Am I not losing prestige for no onter reason then paying?
Oh, I'm the troll? How is it that I'm the troll when you ignore my basic premise, then you come up with something out of left field without even addressing my issue?
You cut and pasted my post so much that you take what I wrote out of context, and then you still haven't addressed my point. Not that you're the DEVELOPERS for that matter, which my post was for it the first place.
I'm Wrong? Ok, so explain to me WHY?
As for my experience, YES, that's what one uses to make a decision. YOU haven't given anything to the conversation other then to cut up my post and come up with something clever to answer, never even addressing my issues in the first place. You all are the ones that want to critic and not address the issue. I can throw names around, too, but this topic is probibly one of my only real concerns, seeing that I have made my fair share of prestige, made my base, and now am being told to eat it because I don't feel that I have to pay for something that I have already earned.
As for Cat butt, why are you entertaining me if I'm such a troll?
Here is my issue, in case you forgot it-
- I don't feel that I need to pay rent, unless I'm getting something for it. WHY SHOULD I THINK THAT PAYING FOR NOTHING IS AN IMPROVEMENT?
- We were told that we were getting an IMPROVEMENT AND I13 was supposed to be the cat's meow.
A base with pretty much everything interactive being charged a fee is taxing for nothing. Whatever you want to call it, RENT,TAXES, USER FEE... The bottom line is that we are paying a fee for no other reason then to pay.
THAT is what you've spent your time "Improveing"? A way to pay rent?
WE DON'T NEED RENT ON A BASE THAT WE BUILD FOR PAYING FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Its' ours. we earned it, we built it.
You say that you earn 2000 as easily as taking out the trash?
I say show me how you do that and even better,show me how I will do that with the new changes to making prestige.
Are you saying I am going to make more Prestige per mission? Are you going to be farming your missions at the highest difficulty setting?
Unless your tooling around with your trusty lvl 50, you don't make that kind of prestige, and you won't either.
HOW, aside from leeching your missions, padding yourself, or doing alot of TF's, which by the way are being gimped out for other additional apurtances.
Are we supposed to do to Prestige that we already have to do with INF? FARM IT?
And as a caviot, How about that Storage rack?
30 pieces of salvage for a storage rack... I'm probibly going to have to get about 10.
The TF change, so I will not be farming TF's. and aside from that with the merit system coming into place, you are going to be at a disadvantage if you think you can make that much on the market. By BY Katie, i guess.
Guess I won't be buying up all of those 70,000,000 inf priced sweet treats, then.
My last question to you Forum poofs is-
Is that how you think you make an argument? Cut and paste your way out of answering the question?
Clever, i guess, but it doesn't answer ANY of my questions, concerns, or issues, but You go on and call me the troll, though.
My cash is as green as yours is, and I am paying to play this game as much as your clever, non question answering, cut and pasting because your simple, selves.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT I DON'T WANT TO PAY ANYTHING FOR NOTHING. Paying rent for no other reason then to say your paying rent is stupid.
I am with you on not feeding the Troll Impish Kat
Now to try and pull this thread back onto topic....
First off I like to welcome Sunstorm to the Base Community albiet a little late, but better late than never eh? =D
I'm am mostly eager for most of the base changes for I13 except for 1 change that seems to make me ask why...
Why the the limit of 30 for salvage??
As it stands for me and I am betting for most SG/VG all their salvage racks are full or close to it, with that ridiculously low storage capacity even if I convert all my Base Salvage to Invention Salvage I will not have enough room to store all my conversions, yes I know that I can hold all the Brain Storms on me but if I am converting one salvage to another shouldn't I be able to store it? And since this storage is 'community' storage should not the limit be higher? I have characters that can hold 70 salvage by themselves not including Market storage! So 1 character can fill 2 and 1/3 of my storage bins!!!
So what I am getting at is there any possibility of making the limit say 100 per rack before I13 hits live?
(I know Sunstorm mentioned somewhere that they might look at the limit later on but why not fix it before it goes live?)
PS Thanks Sunstorm for taking the rare ingredient out of tier 1 base recipes =D
[ QUOTE ]
The paying of rent will start out with you gaining all of your prestige back, then as you continue to pay rent after rent, your going to LOSE IT ALL, in almost the same way as losing money in a pyramid scheme.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is NOT a pyramid scheme.
And yes, with rent, you lose prestige over time. Why am I not chuffed about it?
<ul type="square">[*]We have already been told that rent is going to max out around 3000 prestige a month.[*]My refund on my current rent-free base is going to be about 1,025,000 prestige. Were I to just bank that against future rent, it'd take me (on the current 6 week cycle) OVER THIRTY NINE YEARS to exhaust that. Even if I paid on a 4 week cycle, it'd still be twenty six years before I have to worry about it again.[*]Earning 3000 prestige is a matter of half an hour or so for an L50 character (15 minutes if he farms certain Ouro flashbacks).[/list]
You keep making out that prestige earning is onerous. It's not. The 3000 prestige is for a completely maxed base stuffed to the gills with invention and storage items. It's very likely your small-plot base is a good deal more modest than this.
I'll be generous and say that you have half of that amount. So, about 1500 prestige.If you go JUST on mission bonuses, for a L1 to L10 character running on Heroic, it will take SEVEN (five if you run Invincible) completed missions to get your monthly prestige. "Kill" prestige would be considered "bonus".
Are you actually telling us that you don't play enough to complete seven missions a month?
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Remember the Mission Computer? Its still a joke. It still has one whopping mission for the cost of all of that.
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Which is why nobody but a newb who doesn't read descriptions crafts it and places it.
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Tabula Rasa had a single player storage crate, so that right there tells me that it is possible.
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*FACEPALM*
TR != CoX
Different game engines. Different design and play philosophies. Different server resource utilizations.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Here is a hypothertical example,
I have a base, and three people making prestige, say 1-1000 over a pay period. thats 3000 totaled for the days playing.
If my prestige is over 3000, and I have 3000. Am I not losing prestige for no onter reason then paying?
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Again, 3000 prestige is approximately 7 missions completion bonuses on Heroic.
Again, 3000 prestige for a 3 man SG works out to about 23 prestige A DAY per member. If you are having trouble making this ridiculously low level of prestige earning, you're simply not playing the game (not "not playing the game ENOUGH", you're just not playing PERIOD).
And you're paying out that prestige so your base doesn't go dark and useless. Also, you can now add more functionality to the base, and grow it to MUCH larger sizes than you could have previously. Since you're only paying out 2-3000 for a maxed storage+invention item base, rather than TENS OF THOUSANDS.
If you're a packrat/hoarder on a rent-free plot, yeah, this change makes it suck to be you. But only mildly. Your prestige refund should cover you for WELL into the foreseeable future.
For people interested in the base itself as an item of utility, and something to customize extensively, this is a GREAT change.
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Oh, I'm the troll? How is it that I'm the troll
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Because you're attacking them instead of their arguments (referring to Tricia as a "tool", etc). They aren't.
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How is it that I'm the troll when you ignore my basic premise, then you come up with something out of left field without even addressing my issue?
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Ignoring your premise isn't trolling. Disagreeing and dismissing it isn't trolling. You're being told "sucks to be you" for now having to pay where you didn't before. You're also being told that some of what you'll be getting back can be used as a nest egg against dropping rent and having the base turned off. Mind you this was prestige you didn't have access to up until I13 rolls out. It was SPENT already. And if you're getting back anything more than the pittance I am, you have plenty of prestige left to expand with.
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You cut and pasted my post so much that you take what I wrote out of context, and then you still haven't addressed my point. Not that you're the DEVELOPERS for that matter, which my post was for it the first place.
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Okay, they may not be the devs, but they had access to the information you needed (not necessarily the information you want). As for taking it out of context. No, the context was pretty clear to begin with. You're ticked that you have to pay rent now.
If that isn't the context, you need to work on clarifying your points more.
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I don't feel that I need to pay rent, unless I'm getting something for it. WHY SHOULD I THINK THAT PAYING FOR NOTHING IS AN IMPROVEMENT?
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What you feel is irrelevant. What you're paying for is a tradeoff between
<ul type="square">[*]The old base system: Free base plot, but expanding to anything larger is retardedly expensive and:[*]The new base system: If you have any storage or crafting items in the base, nothing is rent free anymore, but it's now much cheaper (therefore easier) to accumulate the prestige to upgrade plots and build HUGE and hugely elaborate bases with more functionality.[/list]
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We were told that we were getting an IMPROVEMENT AND I13 was supposed to be the cat's meow.
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And we were SINCE informed that the original plans had to be scaled back because the new base editor was worse than what we had now. They still rolled forward with some of the planned changes that didn't directly involve the editor itself.
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A base with pretty much everything interactive being charged a fee is taxing for nothing. Whatever you want to call it, RENT,TAXES, USER FEE... The bottom line is that we are paying a fee for no other reason then to pay.
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If you want to use the base as a huge TP bay, you don't pay.
If you want to use the base as a decorative item, you don't pay.
If you want to use the base for crafting and storage, you pay.
You don't NEED empowerments.
You don't NEED to have an IO workstation in your base.
You're already provided with storage outside of what you can carry by the market and the Vault. What you're paying for with the base is CONVENIENCE. Instead of jogging across multiple zones, you have everything right there.
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I say show me how you do that and even better,show me how I will do that with the new changes to making prestige.
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L50 character, Invincible challenge setting. Mission completion bonus is ~344 prestige.
3000/344 = 9 missions. And that's for a base that's got their crafting/storage items MAXED. On a starter base that'd be pretty damn hard.
Here's another example.
L10 character, Heroic challenge setting. Mission completion bonus is ~248 prestige.
3000/248 = 12 missions.
Again, that is just the mission completion bonus. You still haven't counted the prestige earned from "killing" enemies in-mission.
If you want to be strictly businesslike about it:
Ouroboros Flashback, War of the Fir Bolg (L20-29), Invincible challenge setting. 2 door missions (which you can bypass most of the enemies on), a "Defeat 10 Tuatha" mission, and a delivery. Kick the bosses and their attendant (one attendant each when solo) for an extra 220+ prestige.
(340*4)+(220*2)= ~1800 prestige (Didn't include the "kill" prestige for the boss attendants).
Total time investment: 10-15 minutes. From there, do a "drop task force" and you're done.
2 runs. 20-30 minutes TOTAL.
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HOW, aside from leeching your missions, padding yourself, or doing alot of TF's, which by the way are being gimped out for other additional apurtances.
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Look again. Do 10/12 missions a month and you're golden just on mission completion bonuses. Even at Heroic. That's MISSIONS, not taskforces.
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And as a caviot, How about that Storage rack?
30 pieces of salvage for a storage rack... I'm probibly going to have to get about 10.
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What about it? Nobody here is saying they LIKE the ten-fold storage decrease. Indeed, many are asking that it be kicked up to something more reasonable. Especially in light of the egregious amount of time and space brainstorm conversion will take.
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My last question to you Forum poofs is-
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Childishness like this is why you're being labeled a troll.
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Is that how you think you make an argument? Cut and paste your way out of answering the question?
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Because cutting and pasting 75-100 lines of a rant is pointless when the actual point of the rant is summed up in 3-4 lines.
So they quote the pertinent points, and if anyone has problems with context, they simply refer back to the original message.
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Clever, i guess, but it doesn't answer ANY of my questions, concerns, or issues, but You go on and call me the troll, though.
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That's because the answers are not the answers you want to hear. Again, that's not OUR problem. That's your problem.
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THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT I DON'T WANT TO PAY ANYTHING FOR NOTHING.
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You're not. Under the new base paradigm, you're paying for the convenience of consolidated additional storage and crafting capability. Not size of the base. Not how many teleporters you have. Now how fancy the base is.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
And on this note, I'm done.
I've tried to answer his concerns in an item-by-item basis, and given him examples of how it's NOT a grind to get that much prestige.
I'm offended by his behavior here as well and will not be responding to further prods from him with anything other than a torch with which to chase him back under his bridge.
He should feel honored. He's made my ignore list.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
wow, you invested far more personal time responding than the respondee deserved.
In the event that somehow this person is actually badly inconvenienced (seems questionable) the bigger picture and reality is that changes will be a boon to the vast majority of both existing and new base users and builders, with very little negatives to most others. NC Soft seems have to clued in somewhat that their revenues lie in the hands of the larger base of casual players, not the hard core extremists.
On a related note Sunstorm and other Devs.. if i13 isn't coming out this week, you need to do some proactive communication...PR has never been your strong point, but hear me out.....I was able to play a lot over last Thur-Sunday and I was taken aback by the rampant negativity over i13 over merits, bases. It was evident on SG teams, PuGs, and Forum chat channels. So much so I came back to the forums, which I rarely use now (used to a lot) to dig into what may be fact vs fiction.
Long term, active players are running around touting incorrect DOOMs (have to rebuild your whole base is a prevalant one)......the more I dug into the base changes, read about Merits etc, the more pleased I in fact became and did what I could to dispell....
considering many still don't come to the forums, consider a subscriber 'i13 is almost here' and take some of these myths head on. Ear whispering and doomsaying can be put to rest via proactive communication.....
my 2 influence...
stop me if I'm wrong here...
This thread started on 11/20.
We got a patch on 11/21.
We have had nothing since.
Given the (IMHO) very useful feedback presented in this thread, when can we expect any of that to get integrated into I13??
A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of Prestige primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, without any product or service being delivered.
Basicly, the new I13 base.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my post. Not that I have to like it, but you explained( and reinforced) as best an answer that I have seen yet why I am paying rent for nothing.
As for Ignore, I don't even care. I'm not digging the change, even if some of these happy people get muffled because I'm not drinking the kool-aid.
The "product or service" is a functioning base. That's what you're paying rent for. No matter how much you may want to whine about it.
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I have 100 prestige, the rent costs 2000 based on all of the items in your base, you bust your hump to make the other 1900, and based upon the "new" way, you won't be gaining anything, because you wanted a base, and now you are paying an added tax to KEEP the items in the base.
[/ QUOTE ]...bust your hump to earn 1900? Earning that much takes almost no time at all...at least for a higher level character, or a group of people.
And a lower-level character, or a solo SG, won't *need* the numbers of items that will cost that much rent.
This is not opinion...this is fact.
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The cost for the items alone is going to break your INF, and the cost to keep the items will break your Prestige.
[/ QUOTE ]The curent rent for the second smallest plot size is 20k per month. The maximum rent for any, and I repeat any base is far below this. This is a quote from PlasmaStream's Guide to Bases in I13
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Part IV Upkeep
New Rent is calculated by certain items you have in base.
Enhancement Storage: 100 Prestige
Inspiration Storage: 100 Prestige
Public Salvage Storage: 100 Prestige
Empowerment Tables: 100 Prestige
For each item you have in your base of the above its 100 prestige.
This means the max rent most bases will have is approximately 2000 (as there is no reason to keep lower level empowerment stations aside from decoration)
Vaults do NOT have a prestige upkeep associated with them, so most will truly only see 1900 rent per cycle.
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This, once again, is fact.
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Now you need it for the COP, you can't have it because you are already in a negative for prestige for having at least half of the other items in the base.
[/ QUOTE ]Since the CoP is currently not working, you don't exactly need it for that...
Isn't complaining about it being worthless and at the same time complaining about having to have it kind of...well...oxymoronic?
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CHEAPER PRICES
[/ QUOTE ]If you won't believe me, I once again point to PlasmaStream's Guide to Bases in I13. Read over that carefully...and you'll notice that what I said is true. Nearly everything had reductions in cost.
See where I'm going with this? Once again, a fact.
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Now. with these facts on the table. Which ones are wrong?
[/ QUOTE ]Pretty much everything you stated, with exception of the CoP being broken.