Be a little more obtuse, it suits you.
Spray bottle for you, you stupid cat!
T, I'll go a little bit slower for you, because my post is obviously over your head and you are completely out of my comments. You don't even have half of an idea of what I'm talking about.
We, as in players, have been asking for changes to the bases almost since it came about. Now we get someone out of left field, then Ex asked for feedback on the bases and how the changes would affect them.
Even after the feedback, we get Sunstorm here saying, "Well. We changed it, and we are going to change it more for the sake of change. Even if it wasn't what was asked for, it is a change, so there you go."
The changes in rent on the surface are basicly eyewash.
All they have done is to rewrite the book on this whole rent paying issue. No you have a little in your coffers to start with before they start the whole taking your prestige for the sake of taking it again. just like when the Base making started.
They have rolled back the changes so it looks like you have prestige, but if you busted your hump to get a avarage to an above average base, you are going to end up paying more rent. Based on what you put in the base, you are going to pay rent( which by the way people don't need, because it is a stupid concept that was never explained as to WHY WE NEED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.) no matter what size base you have. Basis of this discussion are from the beginning of this whole subject, back on page 1.
" you have the prices of items rolled back, and when you enter your base you get a refund. NOW after you enter that base, you start the whole book all over again, from page one on paying rent.
Notice the things you will pay for? Storage Items, Power and Control Devices, and the workbenches and tables, etc.
Later in the post, they give a list of things you are going to pay for that are basicly you are going to pay a tax on what you bought, and then you are paying a users fee for having it in your base.
Those things are exactly your basis for even having a base in the first place. THEN after we have already asked time and time again since the beginning of the base issues, fix A, B, and C, the A, B, and C, haven't even been dealt with when they fix E, F, and G.
NO ONE was complaining about the storage of salvage items. People want to stop being robbed, they want cheaper prices on items, and they want to be able to work for thier base and not have to join wage slave SG's where one to five people basicly get 50 to 75 other players to gain the prestige without input as to what the prestige is being spent on.
I have beef about the things that I wrote about on more then one level, but today, I feel that I have been realativly tame in my posting of my displeasure of the so called improvements.
To put it mildly, I am not a happy camper.
Unless you give me a detailed explination as to why I should drink the I13 kool-aid, then I am going to be unhappy, until I can see that my issues were unfounded, and that it was my mistake that I should WANT to give away hard fought coin, when the developers could have easily brought in things like banks, stores, skills, the ability to buy the items in question, so I could go to the different aspect stores and buy the assorted types of equipment to make the items that I wantred, and then have them degrade over time, so that later on, they either break down, or I can get the skills to build new ones, or fix the ones I have.
Of course, I could be happy with the broken Wentworths, of course I can pay 70 million for sweet treats, and thats ok.
Of course, these have to do with other ideas of content for the game, instead of PvP this and PvP that, all the while, my base charges me and I lose the refunded Prestige, ( which by the way was refunded) to pay for a base that will continue to cost me. Hence, turning me into a wage slave, having to pay the bills to stay in the apartment.
I busted my hump to try to play my legitimate small, one person apartment base, building my own stuff, and working my hump off trying to make goals and earn my Prestige without the added poofs to do it for me. I have alot of stuff for my effort, and have along the way posted my wants, along with all of the other folks that have posted thiers as well.
I13 is basicly rewrite the game for PVP. period.
you can say that your improving it, but changing things that weren't broken, and then saying your doing me a favor by making me pay double for what I had to earn and bought with the flawed currency of the game ( which still has no basis of worth) and then having the developers of said game come out of left field and say thay are " fixing" issues that weren't asked to be fixed, all the while leaving the primary issues still unfixed is my issue in a nutshell.
The broken issues of the game are still broken, we get a change for the sake of change, and niether the players or the developers are served by the so called improvements.
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They have rolled back the changes so it looks like you have prestige, but if you busted your hump to get a avarage to an above average base, you are going to end up paying more rent.
[/ QUOTE ]The only people that will *ever* end up paying more rent is the people on the basic plot-size. The next one up currently has higher rent than is ever possible with the new rent system.
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( which by the way people don't need, because it is a stupid concept that was never explained as to WHY WE NEED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.)
[/ QUOTE ]Let me guess. You're still living in Mom's basement, and don't have to pay rent in the real world.
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they want cheaper prices on items
[/ QUOTE ]Did you miss where I said this is exactly what they gave us?
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when the developers could have easily brought in things like banks, stores, skills,
[/ QUOTE ]Standard code rant applies.
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and then saying your doing me a favor by making me pay double for what I had to earn and bought with the flawed currency of the game
[/ QUOTE ]...pay double? The hell? They're giving a discount. That means you get prestige back. Is this somehow hard for you to understand?
The rest of your post was unreadable to an insane degree...so I have no idea what you're trying to say in most of the rest of your post.
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They have rolled back the changes so it looks like you have prestige, but if you busted your hump to get a avarage to an above average base, you are going to end up paying more rent.
[/ QUOTE ]The only people that will *ever* end up paying more rent is the people on the basic plot-size. The next one up currently has higher rent than is ever possible with the new rent system.
[ QUOTE ]
( which by the way people don't need, because it is a stupid concept that was never explained as to WHY WE NEED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.)
[/ QUOTE ]Let me guess. You're still living in Mom's basement, and don't have to pay rent in the real world.
[ QUOTE ]
they want cheaper prices on items
[/ QUOTE ]Did you miss where I said this is exactly what they gave us?
[ QUOTE ]
when the developers could have easily brought in things like banks, stores, skills,
[/ QUOTE ]Standard code rant applies.
[ QUOTE ]
and then saying your doing me a favor by making me pay double for what I had to earn and bought with the flawed currency of the game
[/ QUOTE ]...pay double? The hell? They're giving a discount. That means you get prestige back. Is this somehow hard for you to understand?
The rest of your post was unreadable to an insane degree...so I have no idea what you're trying to say in most of the rest of your post.
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Continue to post and chop till your hearts content, because now your just being a tool.
My post stands, I gave you my opinion and I'm leaving it at that. Its obvious YOU have no idea of what your talking about, aside from a few shallow quips and stupid misquotes.
Standard code rant applies.
I believe that rent exists in order to move inactive SG base data into a storage mode instead of a instant access mode. It's to ease up the data storage requirements.
I have no big problem with the rent change, even our little personal groups will have no problems paying it.
I would however like a SG screen "Pay Rent" button. Heading off to Atlas often to pay isn't great fun. Of course, my 50's can just buy a Wentworth TP, or, head over via Vanguard's TP to Atlas.
The final line of a post by Sweet_Sarah on Liberty
"Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes."
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***You are ignoring this troll***
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Quote:
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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I would however like a SG screen "Pay Rent" button. Heading off to Atlas often to pay isn't great fun. Of course, my 50's can just buy a Wentworth TP, or, head over via Vanguard's TP to Atlas.
[/ QUOTE ]Psh. I just use Ouro. Takes practically no time at all.
Though, something in the base would be nice. Perhaps a terminal, or through an existing piece of base tech?
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I want event salvage in a public place. I could keep it on my person if I really wanted, the point is I'm trying to share.
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But *how much* do you need to share?
I'm not saying remove it from the bins. I'm wondering if you only need to share a little, would the problem be where to keep the rest while sharing that little?
30 is still kinda low. but if 30 is enough for what needs to be shared, then 30 isn't the heart of the particular problem with holiday salvage.
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200 Candy Canes. Needed for 1 of each of the new Winter Event IOs and both the new auras...
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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They have rolled back the changes so it looks like you have prestige, but if you busted your hump to get a avarage to an above average base, you are going to end up paying more rent.
[/ QUOTE ]The only people that will *ever* end up paying more rent is the people on the basic plot-size. The next one up currently has higher rent than is ever possible with the new rent system.
[ QUOTE ]
( which by the way people don't need, because it is a stupid concept that was never explained as to WHY WE NEED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.)
[/ QUOTE ]Let me guess. You're still living in Mom's basement, and don't have to pay rent in the real world.
[ QUOTE ]
they want cheaper prices on items
[/ QUOTE ]Did you miss where I said this is exactly what they gave us?
[ QUOTE ]
when the developers could have easily brought in things like banks, stores, skills,
[/ QUOTE ]Standard code rant applies.
[ QUOTE ]
and then saying your doing me a favor by making me pay double for what I had to earn and bought with the flawed currency of the game
[/ QUOTE ]...pay double? The hell? They're giving a discount. That means you get prestige back. Is this somehow hard for you to understand?
The rest of your post was unreadable to an insane degree...so I have no idea what you're trying to say in most of the rest of your post.
[/ QUOTE ]
Continue to post and chop till your hearts content, because now your just being a tool.
My post stands, I gave you my opinion
[/ QUOTE ]Which you are entitled to. Shame you aren't entitled to your own facts, which are exactly what Tricia was pointing out you had wrong. The facts of the matter.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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I want event salvage in a public place. I could keep it on my person if I really wanted, the point is I'm trying to share.
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But *how much* do you need to share?
I'm not saying remove it from the bins. I'm wondering if you only need to share a little, would the problem be where to keep the rest while sharing that little?
30 is still kinda low. but if 30 is enough for what needs to be shared, then 30 isn't the heart of the particular problem with holiday salvage.
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Right before Beta Opened and I was able to check it out, there was this holiday event going on - you know - Halloween. I got this great idea. Every year I end up at some point wanting to make a 2nd costume on some lowbie character and I end up going to the market and paying like 500k-750k for one part of Halloween salvage or another for a costume slot. So when the event was on and Halloween salvage prices were down I bought some to save up for my alts, friends alts, and sg mates....about 10 of each - so that's 40. Base salvage racks - now IO salvage racks - only hold 30. So I need two racks just to hold the Halloween salvage I had purchased - which could have all been stored in one base salvage rack- along with candy canes, all the components we had stock piled - some times as many as 100 of each type (yeah, well, sometimes more even of some) and base salvage that we were accumulating to make more components - that salvage and gear is share-and-share-alike for most of the sg/vg's that I'm in.
EDI :: Don't you know the base salvage change pretty much bit my Holiday Salvage plan in the butt.
Luckily, there is almost always a way to get around limitations. Usually it just requires time. Time which could have been spent running missions.
It seems a lot of the security / personal storage concerns could be alleviated with a secondary mechanic to the vault system available in bases and out in the zones.
Enhancement Storage.
This would provide secure storage for folks in large super groups. It could have a similar volume metric as salvage does in them currently.
<shrug>
Just a thought.
As a solo base owner, I'm thrilled with the changes and can't wait for them to go live. I'm actually looking forward to "paying rent" since I've never done it before. My base is about to get bigger than it ever would have gotten....like ever. (It would've taken me 10 years of playing to get what I'm about to get.) My "personal storage" is also about to grow larger. (I'm adding the capability to keep 30 pieces of invention salvage per bin to what I had.)
Now if I had 5 bases to keep track of this rent thing would irritate me a lot. If I were the leader of a large SG this might irk me. And if I strain hard, I can grumble a little about the fact that I'll never get that SG healing badge. 
I'm just pointing out that some of us are very happy as a balance to your post. 
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So when the event was on and Halloween salvage prices were down I bought some to save up for my alts, friends alts, and sg mates....about 10 of each - so that's 40. Base salvage racks - now IO salvage racks - only hold 30. So I need two racks just to hold the Halloween salvage I had purchased - which could have all been stored in one base salvage rack...
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But then, bigger bases mean you can have more salvage racks. What's more, you don't need to stockpile lots of base salvage to prepare for making more stuff now, you only really need to stock up on a few rares for whatever you are about to build. That should free up tons of space. You can use that for your special salvage, for a common stockpile for IO crafting, for passing between your own characters, or for empowerment supplies. The first and last option you can do now but the other two options are impossible in the current system.
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...along with candy canes, all the components we had stock piled - some times as many as 100 of each type (yeah, well, sometimes more even of some) and base salvage that we were accumulating to make more components - that salvage and gear is share-and-share-alike for most of the sg/vg's that I'm in.
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Uhhh, 100 of each type? That's not share and share alike, that's just hoarding. Sharing involves people actually using the stuff.
Think about how this is working. Say you got enough Halloween masks over the event to satisfy everyone over the next year. When the next year rolls around, some of the nicer folks go out and farm more special salvage. Whoever wants it gets it when they need it thanks to some selfless folks who trudge through the boredom of farming every year.
Now say you don't have enough and run out. The folks who still really just have to have that one extra costume slot can get it on the market. The folks who would like an extra slot but don't want to pay through the nose for it can wait for the event to roll around again. Then they go out and get the special salvage themselves. Instead of just getting a hand-out from the SG powers-that-be, the people that actually want the salvage are gathering it, which should be a lot more rewarding.
That said, I would definitely like to see special salvage and invention salvage put in different bins. Making invention salvage storage and special salvage storage the same thing is going to be hell to balance. In the long run, I think it's worth the effort, even if it is non-trivial.
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But *how much* do you need to share?
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200 Candy Canes. Needed for 1 of each of the new Winter Event IOs and both the new auras...
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All at once?
and you can buy the IOs and share THOSE a lot easier than the salvage, taking up only 1 slot in a bin that's not being argued is too small. If the problem is that you insist on doing it the hard way, I don't think that's going to sway the devs.
ONE, just ONE of those IOs is 50 candy canes. The other two are 40 each.
Are you seriously telling me that a single salvage rack should hold less than the parts needed to craft a single enhancement?
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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ONE, just ONE of those IOs is 50 candy canes. The other two are 40 each.
Are you seriously telling me that a single salvage rack should hold less than the parts needed to craft a single enhancement?
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I regard the whole Halloween and Winter Event storage problems a trumped up canard. Players can hold, what? 999 of each? From your own Candy Cane storage, buy the recipe, craft the IO, and drop that in storage -- one space taken instead of 40. How many Halloween pieces does it take to unlock a costume slot? 4. Hold onto them on one toon and fill your SGs storage as needed -- maybe two sets of each at a time. When do your SG members suddenly need to make 20 new costume slots?
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In my sg, we've had a few members drop the game unexpectedly, but they put donations from last year's events into the base salvage racks right away.
Your way would eliminate those gifts plain and simple.
Another reason for not storing those salvage on characters is that I can't be on all the time, yet the base storage is up as long as the game is running. Any group member that needs the salvage can get it, even if no one else is on. Furthermore it eliminates having to track down who has what salvage.
MadScientist knows, and so should you because I know you were around for it too, those are the EXACT SAME reasons why players asked for the salvage racks for the BASE salvage in the first place. The reasons given for making them were to facilitate trading of salvage while the people who needed it were off-line so that they could pick it up later.
Now if they had put in a mailing system, then I might go along with your argument. However it isn't the case. We are likely not to see such a system because the market people would be royally upset and would claim people were "hoarding".
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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But then, bigger bases mean you can have more salvage racks.
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Wrong: The limit is 18 storage items (the Invention Vaults, Salvage Racks, Inspiration Bins, and Enhancement Tables), no matter what size of base. This limitation has been in place since the storage items were released.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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ONE, just ONE of those IOs is 50 candy canes. The other two are 40 each.
Are you seriously telling me that a single salvage rack should hold less than the parts needed to craft a single enhancement?
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I *am* agreeing that 30 is a silly low number. One rack should be useful by itself, whether for holiday salvage or whatever other stuff.
BUT, arguing "useless for holiday salvage" using a rather artificial, inefficient idea like trading a whole holiday buying experience at once is... well... a strawman?
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In my sg, we've had a few members drop the game unexpectedly, but they put donations from last year's events into the base salvage racks right away.
Your way would eliminate those gifts plain and simple.
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No, it would reduce those massive gifts, and only as it relates to trying to gift them via the bins.
Though, consider this regarding gifts in general:
Do the new limits encourage gifting to the SG community? Or are they so low it encourages gifting with 1-Inf listings on the Market
Sadly, I fear the devs WANT the market to be the easier method to toss away items To Whom It May Concern. Which is inronicly contrary to Market PVP when you look at it in detail (it undermines those who are actually paying attention and using the system). and it's another blow against larger SGs in this issue.
I think a middle ground soloution to the salvage racks is to have them continue to hold X (currently 30) invention salvage BUT much like a character have tabe with MUCH higer limits for other things, IE specal salvage like candie canes adn haloween stuffs.... this also leads in to the possiblity of one tab being for the old base stuff soo coem i13 you could actuly use your 30 storage right away with out haveing to compleatly clear out all your old base salave first.
All in all I think this would make the most peopel happy.
Just my .02 inf.
Actually that's a good idea. Not going to happen because of lack of time, but perhaps they can fix it later.
Not that we need it now that we can just have 30 items in there but it would have been a good way to sort invention salvage too.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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I think a middle ground soloution to the salvage racks is to have them continue to hold X (currently 30) invention salvage BUT much like a character have tabe with MUCH higer limits for other things, IE specal salvage like candie canes adn haloween stuffs.... this also leads in to the possiblity of one tab being for the old base stuff soo coem i13 you could actuly use your 30 storage right away with out haveing to compleatly clear out all your old base salave first.
All in all I think this would make the most peopel happy.
Just my .02 inf.
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I agree!
But apparently the Dev position is that that is "non-trivial". Hopefully thats just the "Devs position for Issue 13" not the "Devs position beyond Issue 13".
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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In my sg, we've had a few members drop the game unexpectedly, but they put donations from last year's events into the base salvage racks right away.
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And just how many drop so unexpectedly that they can't simply trade off all their event salvage to another Group Mate before they go?
Anyway, the Devs need to make a game economy decision here: Is event salvage meant to be a marketable commodity where there is hoarding or not? If they allow personal hording, then they should allow for base hoarding. And eventually put in a new type of storage. If they don't want hoarding, then there should be a cap on how much a player can hold (say, about 100 for canes and 4 each for costumes) so that players will fill the market. I find that allowing player hoarding but not allowing base hoarding is illogical.
Besides, though a dev has never said so, I'm guessing that having rack after rack of salvage with 999 in each rack was a database issue, similar to the problems of having too many items in the Market DB (which all loads at once to a player's computer); and is also a problem for the costume editor for the same reason. I don't think the devs would be amenable to unlimited storage containers. Again, just a guess on my part.
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If that were the case, then why didn't the dev's put a degredation limit on the salvage IN THE FIRST PLACE?
999 is a good number. The salvage should not have been an issue as to what type. If its holiday, base, or invention, all the storage rack needs it to do is to store it.
The devs can explain why hordeing salvage is a bad idea, anyway. From where I see it, they poured in the economy jumping in with both feet, now we are being told that we are fat little children who can't have another chocolate bar.
The argument that it is hordeing is pointless. If I want to horde it, then thats MY choice. I got the drops from the enemies, so who cares what I do with it. I could delete the whole thing for all I care. Its not like a real economy where the salvage is backed by currency, or a legal tender of any sort. It's dropped, there is countless sources of the salvage, and the market is a player based mechanism that Market dictates price.
The 999 number is already there. Thats a limit. Now you cavieot both Invention, Base, and Event salvage into the mix, then that self limits the whole system, based on the number of salvage rack limits in a base.
With the Invention storage already in place, why not just adjust it to hold 999 parts of salvage, just like a Base invention storage rack.
Want to worry about technicality? Then just have two or three different ones, one with 30, one with 100, one with 500. All at varying cost, sop then if you want to haggle around, you can get your own size salvage base without having to be worrying about this issue at all.
What they really should be worrying about is www. spamgold R us. com's continuous presence, the base permissions, the price range of the total base list, you know... THINGS WE ALREADY ASKED FOR!!!
T was pointing out thier opinon and I posted mine.
Facts are what is lacking in the whole issue of bases. If I haven't been given the reasoning behind the WHY, then I have an opinion based on what I have.
T didn't think through my argument, and her FACTS are only thier own specualtion.
What was the point of quoting her own opinion, anyway? All they did was to misquote me and post quotes in such a way as to sound like a total poof with thier own smart [censored] OPINIONS.
The paying of rent will start out with you gaining all of your prestige back, then as you continue to pay rent after rent, your going to LOSE IT ALL, in almost the same way as losing money in a pyramid scheme.
FOR EXAMPLE-
I have 100 prestige, the rent costs 2000 based on all of the items in your base, you bust your hump to make the other 1900, and based upon the "new" way, you won't be gaining anything, because you wanted a base, and now you are paying an added tax to KEEP the items in the base.
That next month, you are now boxed into just working for prestige to keep the base. never mind that you have a ZERO BALENCE in the prestige.
With the way the new way is, if you have prestige in the coffers, your going to lose it because you pay rent per month, and deminished return of earning it with the other distractions of I13 are going to leave most small bases at a loss.
Now you want to go another way?
Based on the information given by the Dev's, don't even think about having a COP runable base.
The cost for the items alone is going to break your INF, and the cost to keep the items will break your Prestige.
Remember the Mission Computer? Its still a joke. It still has one whopping mission for the cost of all of that. THAT was already asked to have a fix to it, ever since the stupid thing came out. FORGET IT NOW. Silly me for thinking I can even have one. Now you need it for the COP, you can't have it because you are already in a negative for prestige for having at least half of the other items in the base.
How much will the useless mission computer cost in prestige, again?
We already went through this prestige paying rent phase. The solution was for basic plots to have NO RENT.
NOW we are being told that we will pay, JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TO PUT ITEMS IN THE BASE.
Of course, we can always go back and remember that there IS NO COP, even though we have all asked for it, when we were asked what we wanted.
I don't remember anyone ASKING for the reccomendation of paying rent AGAIN.
We asked for CHEAPER PRICES, QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES, and fixing the base permissions.
Tabula Rasa had a single player storage crate, so that right there tells me that it is possible.
Now. with these facts on the table. Which ones are wrong?
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I think somebody else forgot their medication.
[/ QUOTE ]I think that's a bit more accurate...