This Has just Been Posted In-Game
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-09-04 18:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Don't be so sure. Miracles do happen. What I got from the TV session is that while there's significant reason to doubt our success, even just trying is significant.
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Originally Posted by Angelxman81
I guess after the Twitch TV Session we should realize we are all doomed.
No way we can save CoX at this point... So damn sad  |
"Don't you know dead is spelled m-e-n-t-a-l in CoH? - SapphireShot
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The things are not looking good , but it is again down to NCSOFT...|
Originally Posted by Angelxman81
I guess after the Twitch TV Session we should realize we are all doomed.
No way we can save CoX at this point... So damn sad |
They should stop messing around, cause this is bad PR that cost more then the IP is worth .
Seriously any other future development team , are going to look at NCSOFT with different eyes , that is how much this failure cost them on longterm .
In the short term NCsoft will have more money which is why they did this in the first place. The long term however? They are looking at a very bad sell for those consumers in areas that had access to COH and know how they shut it down.
Just look at SOE and DCUO. They expected a hit and got a fizzle, half because the game was a poor MMO and half because SOE was involved.
EDIT: Just think what is going to happen if they are forced to do the same to one of the Korean focused games. If their money issues force them to close one down like they did COH...Which will probably not happen. if they did have to shut down one of their own games they will most likely show it more "heart" then they did us. Which would just anger people like us even more.
Well short term they going to sit on the IP and burry it , unlike previous other Projects ,
There were valid reasons , now if capital can be raised (it is a if) .
Then they still cannot get past the NCSOFT roadblock , so money isn't the reason after all.
So short term failure , and long term failure .
That is not a strategy .
If money is the reason they should state it and earn the money .
Beter then sitting on a IP and letting it rot for no reasons this time .
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People keep throwing around the comment that they won't sell to avoid competition.. but the thing is unless they have another Superhero MMO in the works for regions outside of Korea there ISNT going to be any competition for their profits.|
Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
Well short term they going to sit on the IP and burry it , unlike previous other Projects ,
There were valid reasons , now if capital can be raised (it is a if) . Then they still cannot get past the NCSOFT roadblock , so money isn't the reason after all. So short term failure , and long term failure . That is not a strategy . If money is the reason they should state it and earn the money . Beter then sitting on a IP and letting it rot for no reasons this time . |
Which makes the prospect of their holding onto the IP even more petty.
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If they're killing CoH for a short term gain, why not sell the IP? Doing so would get them even more money, plus it would avoid the bad rep that would diminish consumer goodwill. It's the difference between selling a beloved pet and shooting it when you can't take care of it anymore. Both are sad, but the latter is just horrible in so many ways.
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Originally Posted by Matthew_Orlock
In the short term NCsoft will have more money which is why they did this in the first place. The long term however? They are looking at a very bad sell for those consumers in areas that had access to COH and know how they shut it down.
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Indeed, which is why I for one am willing to donate my upcoming tax return to whichever cause.. whether it be TonyV or the game's producers beginning a crowdsourcing effort. To put it in perspective, NCSoft bought the game and engine license from Cryptic for a sum of $10 million. If even 10,000 of us donate $1000 from our annual returns, that's a lot of capital right there.. possibly enough to buy the game. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Unforunately, you're misreading the data - the figure of 9 million is the number of accounts that have been created in the entire 8 years the game has been running - and that figure also counts trial accounts.
The most players CoH has ever had was 200k+ around the launch of CoV. Any donation plan is going to need quite a bit more than just 1 dollar per player. |
Think of it as an investment into a hobby you love and saving 80+ American jobs, and truly showing our support to the Devs in a way unlike any other.
My best case scenario? The game Producers do crowdsourcing as well as investors to truly give this game and the studio a real fighting chance.
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As far as I know the only source for the 'fact' that they won't sell to avoid competition is that blog by Unsub, and I remember enough from when he posted on these forums to be extremely sceptical of his opinion.|
Originally Posted by Matthew_Orlock
People keep throwing around the comment that they won't sell to avoid competition.. but the thing is unless they have another Superhero MMO in the works for regions outside of Korea there ISNT going to be any competition for their profits.
Which makes the prospect of their holding onto the IP even more petty. |
We know they were willing to at least discuss selling Auto Assault back to Netdevil but no agreement was reached, for whatever reason. But that was years ago, and as others have said NCsoft's circumstances have changed, both financially and, it appears, in terms of their attitude to the US/EU market.
So until someone in a position to know says that NCsoft will not sell CoH, I'm keeping an open mind.
A little inspirational reading....
We the players are in a fight against incredible odds. There are a fair few doomcriers, and a larger number who are just not getting into the fight for one reason or another. So, as little as "classy and inspirational" suits this crowd sometimes, let's let The Bard speak for a moment:
" If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."
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10,000 of us even having $1000 to give might be too much to hope for... but 10,000 of us averaging $100 each is much more reasonable. That comes up to $1,000,000. Obviously by itself that isn't a fraction of the cost necessary to purchase the IP and engine license. But what it is, is proof to potential investors that City of Heroes has a sizeable and dedicated customer base*. What an experienced investor should see in that number is a group of fans so loyal they'd spend money not for the benefits of a subscription, and not for the items or services in a transaction, but solely as a means to keep their chosen game existing. Just for a chance, no less, not even a guarantee. Combine that with the success of the Freedom model, plus the extent to which the newest expansion would make future updates even easier to produce (namely the Lua scripting and demorecord additions), and in all honesty, any investor who can't read the word "profit" between those lines should find themselves a new line of work.|
Originally Posted by The Crom
To put it in perspective, NCSoft bought the game and engine license from Cryptic for a sum of $10 million. If even 10,000 of us donate $1000 from our annual returns, that's a lot of capital right there.. possibly enough to buy the game.
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(* It can also act as immediately available operating capital for things like payroll and utilities, to carry them through the negotiations and the initial "get back up to speed" phase - the period before development can begin again, during which they need to work out details like rewriting contracts, hiring and training replacements, possibly finding a new office, and so on.)
what i got from the twitch tv statements was that ncsoft would not give the code out for free (no brainer), but they didnt say that ncsoft was outright not gonna sell or anything
unless an official statement is posted all of the statements saying that ncsoft will not be willing to sell i consider rumors or speculation and thus not eliminating options yet
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Originally Posted by Triplash
10,000 of us even having $1000 to give might be too much to hope for... but 10,000 of us averaging $100 each is much more reasonable. That comes up to $1,000,000. Obviously by itself that isn't a fraction of the cost necessary to purchase the IP and engine license. But what it is, is proof to potential investors that City of Heroes has a sizeable and dedicated customer base*. What an experienced investor should see in that number is a group of fans so loyal they'd spend money not for the benefits of a subscription, and not for the items or services in a transaction, but solely as a means to keep their chosen game existing. Just for a chance, no less, not even a guarantee. Combine that with the success of the Freedom model, plus the extent to which the newest expansion would make future updates even easier to produce (namely the Lua scripting and demorecord additions), and in all honesty, any investor who can't read the word "profit" between those lines should find themselves a new line of work.
(* It can also act as immediately available operating capital for things like payroll and utilities, to carry them through the negotiations and the initial "get back up to speed" phase - the period before development can begin again, during which they need to work out details like rewriting contracts, hiring and training replacements, possibly finding a new office, and so on.) |
This is the whole part of this I can't quite wrap my brain around. This game didn't become a desolate town with tumbleweed rolling thru it, which makes the decision to end the game quite easy. This game still has quite an active customer base, still actively playing this game. It was a game still in the black (perhaps I should say blue), and not in the red, therefore still on the side of profit, be it whatever that amount truly was. How do you just axe that scenario? It makes no sense.
And the game holds characters and work created by its customer base, many like me who started playing this since back in 2004, who want to keep it running for just those reasons. All of their works, their lives, the lives of their superhero characters, who become in ways part of their lives.....like pets. I don't know about other people, but to us these characters we put so many hours of our lives into and watched them grow are almost like living beings, and now they'll "die".
The problem is, if you can't find a gaming company to support this game who DOES understand how MMORPGs work....trying to explain it to $ individuals who have no earthly idea of this type of world and the IP it includes, well, it's a whole marketing/educational job in and of itself trying to do that.
Speaking of marketing, just as a side note, I gotta say this game NEVER had ANY visible, legitimate marketing or advertising campaign or strategy whatsoever (w/exception to being at gaming conventions). And look at the customer base it has, WITHOUT it. That is a big thanks in part to us, the players, by way of word of mouth. Had NCSoft put ANY type of marketing budget / advertising behind this game at all, their profit margins would have been much higher. I put that squarely on their heads. I can't tell you how many times I'd tell someone about this game (and some avid-gamers no less) -and they're like, "City of Heroes? What is that? I never heard of it." And they'd try it, and get completely ADDICTED! "I love this game!! Why did I never hear of this?" As they fly around Paragon City. This just happened recently with a friend of mine (fly at a much earlier level, now, made my sales pitches so much easier, thank you for that developers!).
Countless times this happens. Why have I never heard of this game? I've been playing this game since 2004 for cripes sake, and people STILL hadn't ever heard of it unless I TOLD them about it.
Alright, now I'm just venting. But I had to get this point across. It's frustrating. And so now if we have to basically take it upon ourselves to market this freakin' world ourselves in a matter of 2-3 months, then so be it. We'll do it ourselves!
I've never been a big forum poster here over the years, tho I'd read it all the time. But admittedly, that felt pretty good.
Thanks.
I would love beyond love any revival of Paragon Studio w/ CoH and I would put money behind it according to my means.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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qft/hfe
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Originally Posted by knight_of_armor
this is the whole part of this i can't quite wrap my brain around. This game didn't become a desolate town with tumbleweed rolling thru it, which makes the decision to end the game quite easy. This game still has quite an active customer base, still actively playing this game. It was a game still in the black (perhaps i should say blue), and not in the red, therefore still on the side of profit, be it whatever that amount truly was. How do you just axe that scenario? It makes no sense.
And the game holds characters and work created by its customer base, many like me who started playing this since back in 2004, who want to keep it running for just those reasons. All of their works, their lives, the lives of their superhero characters, who become in ways part of their lives.....like pets. I don't know about other people, but to us these characters we put so many hours of our lives into and watched them grow are almost like living beings, and now they'll "die". The problem is, if you can't find a gaming company to support this game who does understand how mmorpgs work....trying to explain it to $ individuals who have no earthly idea of this type of world and the ip it includes, well, it's a whole marketing/educational job in and of itself trying to do that. Speaking of marketing, just as a side note, i gotta say this game never had any visible, legitimate marketing or advertising campaign or strategy whatsoever (w/exception to being at gaming conventions). And look at the customer base it has, without it. that is a big thanks in part to us, the players, by way of word of mouth. Had ncsoft put any type of marketing budget / advertising behind this game at all, their profit margins would have been much higher. I put that squarely on their heads. I can't tell you how many times i'd tell someone about this game (and some avid-gamers no less) -and they're like, "city of heroes? What is that? I never heard of it." and they'd try it, and get completely addicted! "i love this game!! Why did i never hear of this?" as they fly around paragon city. This just happened recently with a friend of mine (fly at a much earlier level, now, made my sales pitches so much easier, thank you for that developers!). Countless times this happens. Why have i never heard of this game? I've been playing this game since 2004 for cripes sake, and people still hadn't ever heard of it unless i told them about it. Alright, now i'm just venting. But i had to get this point across. It's frustrating. And so now if we have to basically take it upon ourselves to market this freakin' world ourselves in a matter of 2-3 months, then so be it. We'll do it ourselves! I've never been a big forum poster here over the years, tho i'd read it all the time. But admittedly, that felt pretty good. Thanks. |
I hardly ever post on the forums, even thought I read most of the forums and I have been with the game for over 7 years. I just found out about the decision to close down COH yesterday, and it hit me like a baseball bat in the stomach. I felt sick, and sad at the same time. I had tears in my eyes a little too.
Then I found out what the community here was doing by signing petitions, letter writing campaigns to NCSoft, and just pulling together on facebook and twitter trying to keep our beloved game going. We have to keep this up and try our best to keep this game at least online and playable, even if no more content is added. I have already signed the petition, wrote up a letter to Ncsoft and been on twitter rallying around city of heroes community. Sorry, I avoid facebook at all costs so did not do anything there.
I have been a subscriber and VIP for all of my time in this game even after Freedom launched. Since then I have bought many items in the store and have greatly enjoyed this game over the past 7 years. Made many friends in game and out of game. This is the best MMO community I have ever been a part of and I want to thank each and everyone of you, and also to all the developers who have made this game great over the years with all the story content and little things that they have done for this game. I will miss all of them, and all the community and friends I have made if this game is shutdown. But hopefully we can all rally around to try to save this game. I would donate any amount of money (within reason) to keep this game alive. Good luck and we all hope this can be done.
Thanks for your time.
Blond Bomber--Freedom
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Keep in mind that IF the reason they axed Paragon was for the short term, then some one wasn't thinking with their head. Instead of taking a hit and then earning back money, albeit a ((Relatively speaking)) small amount later, they'd have chosen to lose that source of revenue. That doesn't really say "Logical thinking" to me, so much as it says "Desperate". There is no promise that some one willing to let go of a profitable company to look good in the short term is going to be willing to sell. Not trying to be a downer here, just that realistically speaking we may not be dealing with a group of people who are interested in selling based on logic.|
Originally Posted by Lucretia_MacEvil
If they're killing CoH for a short term gain, why not sell the IP? Doing so would get them even more money, plus it would avoid the bad rep that would diminish consumer goodwill. It's the difference between selling a beloved pet and shooting it when you can't take care of it anymore. Both are sad, but the latter is just horrible in so many ways.
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Then you have the possibility that yes, Paragon was niled because it really didn't fit with whatever they want their structure to be. At THAT point you'd think they'd be willing to play ball, but...you also have to consider that once again, they'd have gotten rid of a profitable studio because...well in all due honesty probably because said studio was to western. And I am not really sure where that puts us on the playing field.
Honestly, the whole issue is confusing and tiresome. Speaking from a buisness perspective, letting go of anything still profitable without the intent of making further profit from it makes zero sense. ZERO. CoH wasn't siphoning money off, Paragon was MAKING money. Maybe Freedom didn't bring back as many people as they had hoped. Maybe they wanted it to become a blockbuster again. Whatever the reasoning, the numbers still point at CoH being steady. Maybe I am wrong here, but a company willing to sell a beloved and profitable studio just to fluff the numbers for a quarter speaks volumes for the amount of buisness sense floating around NCsofts upper echelons.
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
I've not played CoH on a regular basis in years, but I've always had a good time when I do log in from time to time. Putting my name happily on the petition in hopes this game is kept alive!!!
Do things like this even happen witht he community over in Korean games when they are closed down, or do they get better sendoffs then we have gotten to calm the playerbase?
If this doesn't work, I suggest we throw some mud in their eye and take it to the global media. (Not just the Gaming media.) They eat up **** like this, and NCSoft will come off looking like the big bad corporate bully, stomping on the defenseless gaming public.
I'm sure that'll be a permanent stain on their PR.
MMO's are about the gamers, not the publishers. ---We didn't ASK for this, and we don't WANT this.
It's time they got the message.
Target Zero- Scrapper (dark/dark)
Nemesis Zero- MM (Merc/Dark)
Poprock- brute (Stone/stone)
Junglier- Dominator (Plant/thorn)
Nexus Zero- (Warshade)
Invulnerable Edge- Tanker (Inv/dual blade)
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I'd suspect there's a strong cultural difference. I know nothing about the fine points of Korean culture, but I know they went through a long period where they were heavily influenced by Confucian ideals. Among those is implied to be a deference to those above you in the social hierarchy.|
Originally Posted by Matthew_Orlock
Do things like this even happen witht he community over in Korean games when they are closed down, or do they get better sendoffs then we have gotten to calm the playerbase?
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I may be completely off the mark, though. Fill me in, someone, if I am.
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Newton: I observed Mercury's perihelion moving 43 arc-seconds per century more than it should. Is this WAI? --Einstein |
I just posted this on change.org (they're nearing 15,000 signatures).
The music that starts as I fly over Atlas. The tension in Dark Astoria. The exhiliration at completing my first respec trial. My five costume slots. My Phantom Army. My incredibly large and detailed Supergroup base. When my SG members use the base and all its perks. The thrill of victory when my team coordinates and completes a tough mission and still runs through the map for more XP. The look in my son's eyes when I taught him how to play the game for the first time. The enhancements to the graphics and sound and ambience over the years. Fighting through a post mission ambush by the Tsoo. Trick or Treat. The Winter Event and the ski slopes. Pocket D. My Alpha Slot, and my quest to become an Incarnate. Trading enhancement. Giving influence to new toons by Ms. Liberty. Wiping out Luscia. My Nova power. Hitting level 50 with my main. Earning my first cap. Quelling a prison riot. Rescuing trapped civilians in a burning building. Stopping a Rikti invasion force. Hunting down Snipers in Peregrine. My first Supergroup meeting. My 150+ badges. Coming back as my alt to help a fellow hero in need. My first time as a sidekick. My first sidekick. Healing a teammate about to be defeated. Teleporting fallen heroes off the line to resurrect them to return to the fray. Clearing enemies with my Hurricane power. The Positron Task Force. The sewers, the missions, the plot, the theme, the genre, the excitement, the fun, the costume contests and on and and on. I could go on for years. NCSoft, please don't take our City from us. Find a way to keep it going. We understand that business is business. But this is tough as we have become attached to our heroes and villians alike. Find a way to keep it going and you'll have a GRATZ from all of us. Sincerely, Sol Eternal, Triumph and always LFT.
P.s. - Hello to heroes I've met through the years: Captain Wesker, Frostig, Kotz Zeus, Tobacco Joe, Sadness, Deez, Ultraman, the members of the Fusion Force and Fusion Force Legends, the heroes of Global Heroics, The Iron Tsunami, Lord Daekken, Mog, American Firearms, Crimson Capacitor, Debt Stryke, Emerald Fusion, MM3 Squints, Koronus, Honor Gard, Greystar, Quarri, Prime Sanctity, McKinney, Lightning Cyborg, my mentor from years ago Singularum and all of the originial Dominion on Triumph, Jim Justice, Smegaroonie, Mt. Olympus, Lord Siron, Myssfire, Herocide and I'll the heroes I've teamed with all of the years and especially the members of Energy Force and my Supergroup, the Guardians of Eternal Justice.
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Other non-Korean MMOs not owned by NCSoft have been summarily killed off before, but I can't think of any reactions offhand by Korean players when a Korean MMO is shut down. Outside of Korea though, I can name some examples:|
Originally Posted by Matthew_Orlock
Do things like this even happen witht he community over in Korean games when they are closed down, or do they get better sendoffs then we have gotten to calm the playerbase?
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The legit, official European servers for Ragnarok Online were shut down years ago due to a disagreement with Gravity KR, which led to Gravity KR refusing to let euRO renew its license. Sort of like what people were thinking Atari/Cryptic did to NCSoft/Paragon. I know people were furious, especially since euRO's handlers were very well respected by the players, but I never heard of their playerbase trying to rescue it like the CoH community is doing.
Sega is kind of infamous for how badly it's neglected international player bases in for its Phantasy Star MMOs. That's a long story in and of itself--Phantasy Star Universe's international story can be found here if you're curious. PSU as a whole is dying off this month, though; with the release of PSO2, Sega announced this year they'd be shutting down both the remaining X-Box 360 and Japanese PC/PS2 servers. I don't know how the Japanese player base is taking it.
Also, just a few days before NCSoft killed off Paragon and City of Heroes, Gamigo announced it'd be shutting Black Prophecy down this month. That was the latest MMO by the German company Reakktor, who is responsible for earlier MMOs like Neocron and Neocron 2: Dome of York (which are still alive and kicking under other companies). I found out Reakktor actually went belly-up earlier this year. There does seem to have been a movement by players to try and rescue the company from insolvency, but they only made a Facebook page about it.
I'm holding on to hope..because we ARE heroes..it's what we do...Without it, we just stare at the bleak void around us. Dark clouds overhead, yet hope will be that one ray of light shining through that we cling to.
I'll do whatever I can to help..Right now, it's not much, but we all must do our part.
-Pogoman, Master of Kick-Fu
-Co-Leader and recruiting officer of the Virtue Honor Guard
- lvl 50 ma/sr scrapper
-Ace O' Diamonds lvl 50 fire/rad controller
and waaaay to many other alts to mention right now
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I don't know if it exists or not -- and it's a long shot that Cryptic was forward-thinking enough to do this -- but could there be a clause in the contract between Cryptic and NCSoft from back in 2007 that gives Cryptic the option to take back the City of Heroes IP if NCSoft closes the game?|
Originally Posted by Pogothulu
I'm holding on to hope..because we ARE heroes..it's what we do...Without it, we just stare at the bleak void around us. Dark clouds overhead, yet hope will be that one ray of light shining through that we cling to.
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I don't think it's very likely, and don't know whether there's anyone left at Paragon Studios who could check, but it would be a real shot in the arm if it turned out that NCSoft had already ceded the game to another company by declaring its closure.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
I guess after the Twitch TV Session we should realize we are all doomed.
No way we can save CoX at this point...
So damn sad