Devs called I24 "Fix Everything" in Coffee Talk... Lets hope that doesn't include nerfs
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-07-11 13:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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So you're saying my planned crusade to turn Blasters into offensive/defensive gods in-game using the Silver Surfer and Iron Man as templates is poorly thought out? Curses!
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Mapping comic book characters to archetypes is usually not clear-cut. The characters weren't designed with our ATs in mind, after all.
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Originally Posted by Agent White
how did this thread get so derailed going from moaning about nonexistant and unnanounced "nerfs" to trying to pin down how a fictional characters fits into our fictional game universe?
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Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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It's pretty straightforwards using this chart:|
Originally Posted by Oliin
So you're saying my planned crusade to turn Blasters into offensive/defensive gods in-game using the Silver Surfer and Iron Man as templates is poorly thought out? Curses!
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Iron Man: FF/Energy Defender.
Silver Surfer: FF/Energy Defender.
Dr Strange: FF/Energy Defender.
you know, i really have to throw in with olantern here. It was probably meant as a nice way of saying they are looking at some qol fixes. but saying "fix everything"? that is asking the tangentally rational to make unrealistic expectations and going on a 12 page rant the next time they find a typo. I like the ideas discussed and thing it will be a good thing, but you kind of armed the insane with this title...
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If you watch the Coffee talk you know it was only referred like this in an offhanded joking way. It is not seriously named the 'Fix Everything' issue. |
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
you know, i really have to throw in with olantern here. It was probably meant as a nice way of saying they are looking at some qol fixes. but saying "fix everything"? that is asking the tangentally rational to make unrealistic expectations and going on a 12 page rant the next time they find a typo. I like the ideas discussed and thing it will be a good thing, but you kind of armed the insane with this title...
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But this is how news media twits perceptions all the time
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Superman is a scrapper? Must be why scrappers get SS huh? Oh..wait..
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I am surprised no one has posted about how big of a nerf to Scrappers i24 is.
first they made brutes do more damage than scrappers then stalkers did more damage than scrappers now blasters will do more damage than scrappers the scrapper AT is basically useless now. And it is the AT that pretty much defines comics - wolverine, spiderman, superman, iron fist, bat man, flash, wonder woman, etc. if they do not fix scrappers in i24 I foresee massive numbers of people quitting in crit |
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This is what happens when internal code names go public. It creates unrealistic expectations, it opens the team up to mocking, and forces the team to come up with yet another feline code name|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
you know, i really have to throw in with olantern here. It was probably meant as a nice way of saying they are looking at some qol fixes. but saying "fix everything"? that is asking the tangentally rational to make unrealistic expectations and going on a 12 page rant the next time they find a typo. I like the ideas discussed and thing it will be a good thing, but you kind of armed the insane with this title...
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Is that technically even a derail?
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Originally Posted by Agent White
how did this thread get so derailed going from moaning about nonexistant and unnanounced "nerfs" to trying to pin down how a fictional characters fits into our fictional game universe?
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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this is outstanding
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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They're intentionally not using something that would make them more effective. Yeah, they're nerfing themselves, and to say they're not is just being dishonest ( Or showing that you don't know what the term means ). It's like saying a petless MM isn't nerfing himself by not taking pet powers. Yeah, it's possible to play without them and one can even be decently effective...but the difference between having them and not having them is rather dramatic.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Not using an optional system isn't players choosing to "nerf themself", it's just another example of a playstyle that differs from yours. And it's no less valid a playstyle than yours is.
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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The diminishment of SBE PPM Procs will be huge, much much larger than the boost IO procs get by moving to PPMs system and the current best places for IO procs get nerfed in the move so it's not all upside in the only area that benefits
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Originally Posted by Agent White
The PPM procs will see diminished performance, yes, but standard IOs will be moving over to the PPM formula which will be a massive boost.
As I've been led to understand anyhow. |
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The Surfer has a wide and poorly defined suite of powers, but they extend beyond simple ranged and melee attacks.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
So you're saying my planned crusade to turn Blasters into offensive/defensive gods in-game using the Silver Surfer and Iron Man as templates is poorly thought out? Curses!
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He's basically a Defender with whatever Buff/Debuff Primary he can think of, and an Energy Blast secondary.
Iron Man, if they had Power Armor Blast, Power Armor Support and a few of the upcoming pool powers, could work as a Blaster. You can essentially do his Hulkbuster armor now as a Tanker. I'd be more interested in some Power Armor-esque attacks as pool/epic powers for a Scrapper to model his original Mark 1 armor.
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I'd love to hear some examples of how that will be 'huge.'
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Originally Posted by Cheetatron
The diminishment of SBE PPM Procs will be huge, much much larger than the boost IO procs get by moving to PPMs system and the current best places for IO procs get nerfed in the move so it's not all upside in the only area that benefits
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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IOs are basically CoH's version of cheat codes. Not everyone plays with cheat codes turned on.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
So, free players and those who choose to nerf themselves. Gotcha. The latter, that's their own play choice. The former...IMO, their "vote" doesn't count 'til they're paying.
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Now those cheats may be used to make a set playable at the modern pace, like any set with longish cooldown location based powers, or they can be made to make tankmages out of formerly squishy ATs, or they can be used to save time by not having fiddle with updating your enhancements every few levels.
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I'm not sure YOU understand the usage of the word nerf as it relates to computer role playing games or video games. |
Originally Posted by Tyger42
They're intentionally not using something that would make them more effective. Yeah, they're nerfing themselves, and to say they're not is just being dishonest ( Or showing that you don't know what the term means ). It's like saying a petless MM isn't nerfing himself by not taking pet powers. Yeah, it's possible to play without them and one can even be decently effective...but the difference between having them and not having them is rather dramatic.
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Perhaps the term you are looking for is gimp.
I'd still say it's not really gimping a character by using a SO/HO build since the game is designed around SO's and not around IO's. Because of this, it's still an effective and valid build if you aren't IO'd out. It may not be a fully maximized build, but it's still not a gimp build.
If there were a design change that made it so that the difficulty of the game was designed around IO's I'd agree that a SO/HO build was gimped.
As one example, when they first put the Alpha unlock into Beta there were players that were complaining that it was impossible to defeat Trapdoor solo. Most that were complaining were mentioning their IO'd out or even Purple''d out builds. TopDoc and another player (sorry, I've forgotten the name) were asking for specifics about their AT, Primary and Secondary then rolling up characters with that build and outfitting it with only SO's then defeating Trapdoor with that SO only build. In several instances they noted it was the first time they had played a particular powerset that was being used or at times it was a powerset and AT combo that they hadn't played.
I had to agree with TopDoc and others that were arguing that Trapdoor wasn't too difficult to solo since I'd run the mission on an Ill/Emp controller, a DM/Regen Scrapper and a Fire/Dev Blaster using my normal SO/HO builds. I've run it on Live with non-IO'd characters even after the changes to the mission that negated dragging him into the Lava or pulling him out of that chamber.
An SO build is still valid, no matter how much you want to claim it's not.
It's a shame the forums went down this morning at 4:45 AM Central since I was in the middle of typing the above post when it went down. If it hadn't, my reply would have been directly after yours.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
not using IO's is failing to exploit the system to its maximum potential
it is not gimping yourself - you can still do +0/x1 missions easily (unless you are a blaster)
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The Surfer has a wide and poorly defined suite of powers, but they extend beyond simple ranged and melee attacks.
He's basically a Defender with whatever Buff/Debuff Primary he can think of, and an Energy Blast secondary. Iron Man, if they had Power Armor Blast, Power Armor Support and a few of the upcoming pool powers, could work as a Blaster. You can essentially do his Hulkbuster armor now as a Tanker. I'd be more interested in some Power Armor-esque attacks as pool/epic powers for a Scrapper to model his original Mark 1 armor. . |
I thought I was pretty obviously joking.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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I had no problems at standard difficulty on any of my Blasters. I had little problems at +1 or x2 settings on them.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
not using IO's is failing to exploit the system to its maximum potential
it is not gimping yourself - you can still do +0/x1 missions easily (unless you are a blaster) |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
I don't remember having that many problems with my blaster pre-IOs even.
I was never THAT weak.
Now, yes, I have max settings on-- and my hero pet NPCs in my missions never survive until the end. Soooooo....that is incarnate + IOs, i'm sure.
Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster
....and hopeless Science-Natzi.
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lol no|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
When spiderman was created he was the 4th strongest hero in the marvel universe. Like all scrappers, he did not get buffed whereas everyone else did. Leaving his damage pathetic. A perfect example of how scrappers need to be buffed.
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scrappers do just fine, k thx
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The Surfer has a wide and poorly defined suite of powers, but they extend beyond simple ranged and melee attacks.
He's basically a Defender with whatever Buff/Debuff Primary he can think of, and an Energy Blast secondary. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Coming soon: Nerf power (compliment to frisbee power) - toss a football to all your friends!
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Originally Posted by JayboH
It already has included nerfs. There are minor DPA nerfs to all the old crash nukes.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
They're intentionally not using something that would make them more effective. Yeah, they're nerfing themselves, and to say they're not is just being dishonest ( Or showing that you don't know what the term means ). It's like saying a petless MM isn't nerfing himself by not taking pet powers. Yeah, it's possible to play without them and one can even be decently effective...but the difference between having them and not having them is rather dramatic.
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Many people hate the market and the time sink IO's can be. Many people love it (I do). It's okay for people to pay their money and play the game THEY like.
But to my mind, it's pretty much NOT okay to talk down at people who don't enjoy the same game experience that you enjoy.
Generally speaking, this doesn't get me enough to fully slot out a character with IOs. When I'm really lucky I might get enough to slot one power - or just one slot depending on the IO. Of course, depending on the set I'm looking for, several pieces of it might be practically non-existent on the Market, which is yet another impediment to the process.
And at that point, there's still the part where I have to go about crafting the IOs in question, which is not "natural" gameplay for me any way I look at it. Unless I spend (what is usually, IME) a bit extra and buy already-crafted IOs.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
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Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm