Devs called I24 "Fix Everything" in Coffee Talk... Lets hope that doesn't include nerfs

I friggin' swear, there are times I really wish that "nerf" had never become part of the collective gamer vocabulary. And there are other times I wish that the original meaning of the term hadn't been so completely devalued as to lose all meaning. Now any time that anything is balanced downward in the slightest, it's always "THEY NERFED X! THEY NERFED X!".

Something obscenely overpowered could be made just slightly overpowered and people would cry "NERF!" despite it still being overpowered.

Alright, alright, look. I've given this a LOT of thought over the past couple of years, okay? Probably more than you.

Spider-Man wouldn't exaaactly fit into the City of Heroes universe, and that's not simply because of his web-slinging abilities. (Spidey doesn't actually NEED to web-sling when he runs out of web fluid, because he's also a super-speeder AND super-leaper.) In Civil War, for instance (I'm using it as a reference because a lot of us probably have that book within range), we really have some good displays of Spider-Man's versatility.

Versatility. That's the biggest problem for anyone on Primal Earth who tries to pin Spidey down definitively. We don't have it--not like he has it. Only as teams do we approach and excel past Spidey's versatility. Scrapper or Tank? You know, it depends on the situation. The guy is the KING of taunt, but have you SEEN his furious kicks? He easily dodges bullets while wise-cracking, but have you SEEN him tear a thick steel door off its hinges while chatting idly on his cell phone? I have. I'm a comic book nerd.

Remember the scene in Civil War when he gets into a fight with Iron Man, and when security shows up, he deftly jumps out of the window amid a hail of bullets? Scrapper, you think? Think again. Because Spidey is also impossibly tough. How about all the times he's been grabbed by giant robot claws, squeezed by super strong villains, smashed by giant monsters--all the while unable to shut up with his constant barrage of horrible puns? And don't forget. He's not merely fast and invulnerable, he's proportionately as strong as a spider, able to lift and leap many times his own weight (with ease), hurl, crush, break, and bend cars, trucks, steel beams, boulders. Spidey would take the hurl power. Need proof? Easy to find at your local comic book store, in just about any issue ever printed of the Amazing Spider-Man.

So it might make you scratch your head to read this, but the biggest Spidey fans in Paragon City usually settle on Super-Strength/Invulnerable Tank. No, it's not accurate. But it just has the feel to it--"Throw everything at me, I'm still laughing." The fact is, Spidey would have to pick the Tank archetype in our neck of the woods, because Scrapping just isn't super enough for Spidey. He's not merely fast, he's proportionately as strong as a spider.

how did this thread get so derailed going from moaning about nonexistant and unnanounced "nerfs" to trying to pin down how a fictional characters fits into our fictional game universe?

Yeah, I'd call Spidey a Tanker definitely.

My simple test - if they're better known for surviving damage than dishing it out, they're a Tanker. Spidey exhibits softcapped Defence to all positions, a general kind of muscly stringiness (Tough from Fighting pool) and an ability to really surprise you when the tide turns against him (scaling resists in SR). His defining moments are often him getting beaten up and keeping on going.

Yeah, he can pick up streetlights as bats, and pull vault doors off their hinges with one hand, but he's not the first thing hero you think of for packing a punch.
(I'd disagree about thim having the SS powerset, because he doesn't Footstomp. The Martial Arts of Street Justice sets can just as easily be explained as superhuman strength as they are skill. )

Iron Fist in contrast, is good at dodging blows, but doesn't have any spider sense or superhuman elasticity. But he does have an incredibly powerful punch. Now HE's a Scrapper. (OK, so scrappers dont have Energy Melee yet...)

I forgot to mention his ability for super-fast regeneration, but in Spidey's case I think his regen is almost always owed to (the equivalent of) quick one-click heals than an always-on toggle. He's got nothing on Wolverine's famous regen, and "healing up" for Spidey comes into play far less often. He takes a lot more punishment before he needs to stop and rest.

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Originally Posted by Agent White how did this thread get so derailed going from moaning about nonexistant and unnanounced "nerfs" to trying to pin down how a fictional characters fits into our fictional game universe?

Sorry, I'll stop if ya'll want.

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Originally Posted by Dr Harmony My simple test - if they're better known for surviving damage than dishing it out, they're a Tanker. Spidey exhibits softcapped Defence to all positions, a general kind of muscly stringiness (Tough from Fighting pool) and an ability to really surprise you when the tide turns against him (scaling resists in SR). His defining moments are often him getting beaten up and keeping on going. Yeah, he can pick up streetlights as bats, and pull vault doors off their hinges with one hand, but he's not the first thing hero you think of for packing a punch.

Exactly, although quite a handful of his enemies would protest that last part about packing a punch.