The proc on bonefire is beast!!!

Sorry about your friend, but suprised she just didn't unslot the proc. As for you, and your 'silly'... can't really answer since I got a fire/storm/psi that already has two powers that stun mobs, two that cause knockup, etc without having bonfire. Really I have bonfire just for the extra damage, then anything else.

But I would like to see a chart or something of some 26th troller or dom using only their fire powers with only bonfire slotted with the proc. And while I have no doubt they would live longer with bonfire/proc.... wondering if it would really be the "I win" power folks are talking about.

I think it was bought up. Given my understanding of how enhancements work I'm not sure that this would actually be possible to do.

I do know that the devs could make it so that when it procs it suppresses ALL knockback your character does for a period of time but that's got it's own set of problems (plus depending on how the power system works it may be that it suppresses all KB for powers activated after the one with the proc in it).

The only way in which I care whether or not the proc is removed/power is modified/etc., is the degree to which it is perceived that the outcry over 'OMG, this is the brokenest thing EVAR, nerf plz!!!' is to some degree responsible for the ensuing nerf. Because that emboldens a certain portion of the population to scream at anything they think is overpowered/'too good', WHICH IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.

Also, because it's refreshing to argue with smart people on the Internet for a change.

--
Pauper

It must be terrifying to live in a world where other players are constantly conspiring against you.

I'm particularly alarmed that you seem to believe that if the change is made, it's not because the change is good or the power was overpowered, but because of a bunch of whiners. Whatever else one may think of the power balance process, I think the developers probably take some level of offense at the idea that they nerf powers just to shutup a subset of posters.

My understanding is that it just applies a large negative KB strength enhancement to the power its slotted into (actually I suggested that as a possibility long ago and was told it caused problems: not sure what they were but apparently they were surmountable). If so, there's no way for that to occur randomly for different targets. It could theoretically flicker off and on, but then it would, in a power like Bonfire, knock everything down, then randomly knock everything out of the fire. It would always be all or nothing.

Having been here long enough to see the ebb and flow of the seasons, I feel confident saying that people whining on the forums make precisely the same impact on developer game balance considerations as a fly does upon encountering a windshield at 80mph.

Considering people already can get from 0-50 in 4 hours of an AE farm (using a 2xp booster), are we really worried about "other areas of the game" being broken by this proc?

In my use case, I run ITFs and itrials and maybe other TFs like STF or Reichsman, and it really isn't making that much of an impact. That's how I play at 50+. So yes, it wouldn't matter that much to me if it is reduced in power as it's not making a big impact on my play. But I am automatically against the "nerf it now" crowd. Precisely because you are not considering the cases where the proc is not "overpowered."

Just stick a target cap / to-hit check on the thing and be done.

It's your vehemence to nerf anything new and interesting into oblivion that I decry.

I'm not sure what level has to do with it and I'm sure I've already touched on your request somewhere down the line but I'll clarify.


I do have this slotted into a level 28 Fire/Earth Dom; I ignored Cages so I could leverage Enhanced Bonfire and the KD from /Earth without issue.

Solo; I've only run her down the coast of Sharkhead so far. On anything that didn't have some kind of Flight, the lockdown occurred; even on Bosses (like Hellfrosts). Sky Skiffs, Wing Raiders and Spectrals got caught from time to time but they seemed to be able to attack through and leave the patch. It seemed that Pantheon Masks were mostly unaffected.

Freakshow rezzing gave them a couple of seconds of flee time before they returned to lockdown status.

Eradication was at my discretion; limited only by my patience (or lack of) and my endurance bar.

If I were on any kind of a team and could ensure they didn't KB them off the patch [or apply -kb powers]; we would've cleaned house in very short order.


The 2 second cycle is a bit much.

Maybe applying an across the board effect suppression, by rank, to critters (minions having the shortest suppression time; bosses and above having the longest).


It would be worth it to note; that (because of the proc; if its proliferated enough) play could be dumbed down (in most cases); no need to heal, rez or buff (outside of damage, recharge and +recov/end).

According to city of data that's how it is working so apparently they go the problems worked out.

It might be possible to simulate it as a proc by having it apply a global -knockback enhancement effect to the character (basically an inverse power boost that affects knockback only) but I'm not sure if that would work or not since it heavily depends on when the game checks procs during power activation. The key point being does the game calculate the strength of a power before or after it calculates procs? I suspect it occurs before which would render the proc useless but I don't know for sure.

On that note though a proc that grants a short duration global knockback suppression effect to your characters might be an interesting option for the future IO set and as far as I know should be possible with the current power system

As noted many times in this thread already, controllers can't leverage this as well as other ATs because (and especially in the case of a level 26 controller) they generally utilize their AoE immobilize for damage. Of course, controllers of any level aren't the only concern as this power is available to four ATs. Moving on to dominators, only the use of powers in Fire Control is a very strange condition for testing there, one completely catered to your argument that doesn't reflect actual gameplay. Why would a dominator completely ignore better damage tools from their secondary for one power that negates the protection they receive from this combo? The same conditions would lead one to believe that Earthquake is a rather useless power for a dom when that is not the case.

Because clearly everyone power levels.

Minority pointing out the minority.

Also, I helped fix Bio Armor There's a difference between nerf and proper balance. It's people who don't understand the concept of balance, that cry "NERFHERDER".

Its the same list its been for a while, which boils down to anything that doesn't generate infinite rewards, crash the servers, or perform Judeo-Christian miracles.

I'm curious, how long ago was that?

Negative strength to KB has existed at least as long as Benumb and Weaken have, the only difference is it wasn't available from an enhancement.

Personally I think it's much more likely that they didn't *want* players to be able to convert KB to KD, and the technical handwave was just that. Probably the "problems" encountered were things just like what is happening with Bonfire.

I mentioned it to Castle several times over the years, probably since 2006. And I'm aware the ability to use the effect has existed for some time, including in powers like Benumb, in general. Benumb was the trigger for all sorts of weird game engine questions, like why are some mez protection powers strength-enhanceable.

It does occur to me now that the "technical issues" he hinted at might have in fact been that he was concerned there were certain powers that would go berserk if this ability was added either player-wide or in enhancements that could be slotted in said powers, and the tech didn't exist to easily resolve those issues game-wide short of making a lot of exceptions to how it could be used.

This explains the thousands killed on U.S. Highways every year...

It is entirely possible to pull aggro from PA, especially against groups. PA does not prevent entire bunched up spawns of +4s from hitting you at all.

EDIT: Note to self, read all responses before posting. Arcana already pointed this out, but it is still true.

I think a less easy, universal fix would be to change ALL Knockback powers to Knockdown, except powers that should remain Knockback. And THEN, add non-unique IOs that increase the Knockdown Magnitude of the power they are slotted in to change them from Knockdown to Knockback.

It is apparent that the developers are designing all new powersets around Knockdown (ex: Electric Control, Water Blast), so why not just go all-out with Knockdown, but allow the crazy folks like me to turn Knockdown into Knockback, power-by-power.

First, I think a 26th lvl troller or dom would be the best test since its when you get bonfire. You can only slot it with the proc, and you're still low enough to not have soft-capped defense or resistance. Nor do you have the rest of the bells and whistles that a 50th level does, so you have less of a chance of outside factors influencing your run.

As for only using fire/, I believe the strongest of the argument so far is that bonfire/proc makes a player with little experiences or interest, able to turn bonfire/proc into a 'I win' power. But only using fire/, again you lessen other factors in your test. When I play my fire/storm, I don't find bonfire/proc having that huge of impact because I already have freezing rain that pretty much does the same (area flopping). But on a fire/rad, bonfire/proc should be a different story. So by cutting out any use of your secondary power, and just using genetic IOs, you should have clearer results.

In fact, I'm going to do that tonight with my fire/storm with her third build which I don't use. Do 3 runs with and without proc just using my fire powers, then again with using storm. Maybe find try to find a AE mission that has a wide selection of enemies within those levels to be really thorough.

Hell, given that the argument made for the original control nerfs was to prevent players being able to render mobs "Completely incapable of fighting back, ever" and given that Bonfire +proc now does exactly that (except in special cases), I'd expect a complete reversal of all the control power Recharge/Duration nerfs if Bonfire is considered to be okay as is.

@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

My Empath resurrected someone the other day...

Nerf Empathy!

Wait...so you're saying that the mere fact that someone can skip from Atlas park to Dark Astoria in a few hours by being powerlevelled rather than actually playing the game means that balancing the journey from chargen to Alpha doesn't matter?

You, sir, are a ******* moron. Gameplay exists outside of the incarnate grind, and the journey is still more important than the destination for a decent portion of the playerbase.

The opinion that this one IO in this one power 'isn't all that useful at 50 and in itrials' has no bearing whatsoever on the balance issues brought on by this IO for the 50% of the game before 50 that it can be used in this one power to completely shut down an entire map's worth of entire enemy spawns so long as none of them have substantial kb protection.

There's an entire game that happens before 50 and Incarnate content. Just because you're too stupid to enjoy it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter.

******* bAEbies.

I agree. Bonfire is not gonna break the game at this stage. I have it on my mastermind and the team i was on killed the baddies before i could get it off. I am sorry, have you seen some of the scrapper and brutes out there. How about we nerf them. Not saying we should but come on. Who really cares if bonfire or any power is changed by this proc. I think this is a stupid to be calling out for nerfs when other part of the community get a decent proc. I am waiting for a proc to increase controllers mag. So because that might benefit my lock down powers I should be nerfed. Give me a break