Villians how to fix redside


Aisynia

 

Posted

I like Redside more then Blueside. The arcs are way way better then those on Blueside. However, if you want to team you need to go blueside. Adding more arcs might work, but even then. What do people do? It used to be newspaper/radio, now it is tips, SFs and of course MA.

Can red side be saved? I doubt it and F2P is not going to help. All people will do is go to the blue side even faster and farm like crazy. I doubt that you will find a living soul in Praetoria soon as well.


 

Posted

I hold to the hope that the Zone redesigns, when they happen, will fix the few issues I do have with Redside.

While I don't car for the 'thug' mentality prevalent in the older content, I did like the idea of needing to do Mayhem missions to get introduced to mission contacts. (Several of those arcs are disappointing, but that's beside the point.)

Of course, circumstance means that I solo more than I team, so the lack of people Redside hasn't really deterred me. Except when I want to actually run a Strike ForceĀ… -_-;;


-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer View Post
Have civilians randomly explode in a meat shower.
Allow all NPCs to be targeted and killed, like Grand Theft Auto, but with fire blasts and battle axes! Make your own meatshower!

I also like redside better, except for Grandville. I just like teaming with people though, so it's mostly blue for me.


@Joshua.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator View Post
The problem is your perception. I Like the redside and hate blue side.
I opened the thread to find out what was wrong with red side. I hadn't really noticed anything before. I mean nothing particular to red side.

I am not sure that revamping red side will make more people want to play here. That would only work if what was preventing people from playing here was something that could be revamped. But, it's also possible that fewer people are capable of realizing that they want to play villains.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I hope you're not trying to say that the blue and red sides have an evenly matched population level
Where blue gets droll and slobber, red gets people who know how to play the game.

Multiply that by the relative populations and holy cow that's a lot of slobber.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
Where blue gets droll and slobber, red gets people who know how to play the game.

Multiply that by the relative populations and holy cow that's a lot of slobber.
That might be the case now, but back before the game became easy mode, leveling in villains was a nightmare. Most of the people on redside couldn't play the game to save their lives.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds View Post
I hold to the hope that the Zone redesigns, when they happen, will fix the few issues I do have with Redside.
Not to burst your bubble, but I have yet to hear any redname make a single statement that would indicate to me there will ever be zone revamps redside. To the contrary, when discussing the Atlas Park/Mercy Island zone and mission revamps in I21, War Witch pretty much indicated that they specifically chose not to revamp the look of Mercy Island because the Rogue Isles has a distinct style that they did not want to change.


- Garielle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme View Post
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
Where blue gets droll and slobber, red gets
people who can't spell "drool".


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
people who can't spell "drool".
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang.


 

Posted

I play both sides, and I have to say revamped Atlas Park means every blueside zone will have to look prettier now. I want Kings Row to look more like Gotham.

Redside? Bump up the lighting just a tad instead of making every dim. THAT'S what's making it seem despressing. I also think St. Martial should have more of a jump from Babylon to... that destroyed area that no one goes to. Also, Grandville was impressive back in CoV release. Buff up that Recluse statue.


@Leetdeth - Virtue | MA Arcs(all challenge arcs): Big Magic Blowout! #369774 | Who Really Cares About This? Z! #509577 | That Meddling King! (teams recommended) #21450

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garielle View Post
Not to burst your bubble, but I have yet to hear any redname make a single statement that would indicate to me there will ever be zone revamps redside. To the contrary, when discussing the Atlas Park/Mercy Island zone and mission revamps in I21, War Witch pretty much indicated that they specifically chose not to revamp the look of Mercy Island because the Rogue Isles has a distinct style that they did not want to change.
I can definitely see this. I'd rather see them add new contacts or SFs that use the space they already have. The redside zones have so many nooks and crannies that are never really used outside of one mission here or there, like the Crey HQ or the Sky Raiders water base. I'd love to see more content added that expanded these little sub-zones in the bigger zones.


Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser

King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast

 

Posted

It doesn't need fixing.
With the ability to switch sides, players can come and go as they please without being locked in.

If anything, I'd try adding a 30-35 SF or a 40-45 SF in the mix to make it a but more seamless, but the bad side is tons of fun, less bland than blueside and apart from doing the patron arcs for APPs, much more enjoyable.


Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser View Post
I can definitely see this. I'd rather see them add new contacts or SFs that use the space they already have. The redside zones have so many nooks and crannies that are never really used outside of one mission here or there, like the Crey HQ or the Sky Raiders water base. I'd love to see more content added that expanded these little sub-zones in the bigger zones.
My biggest issue here is that they will, inevitably, be eventually updating all the blueside zones to take advantage of the Ultra Mode graphics. This is going to leave the redside zones outdated from a technological standpoint. It is going to be that, rather than the architectural style or the lighting that eventually becomes the death knell of the redside. As technology continues to improve, and everyone has systems which can run the current "Ultra Mode" without breaking a sweat, who is going to choose to look at zones which don't begin to take advantage of that technology?


- Garielle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme View Post
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

 

Posted

The solo content is better redside ill admit that.

But the population and reward imbalance are so great as to nullify it.


Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
people who can't spell "drool".
Oh... he was going for drool?

I assumed he meant "droll." Which didn't make a heckuva lotta sense, now that I think about it...



 

Posted

The problem isn't as big as it seems. Blueside will always have more players. Now the devs could focus on bringing out new stuff and making changes to the redside while neglecting blue and that would move people around a little.

But really, as long as there's enough people on the server in general, redside will be okay. If there's a population problem redside, then there's likely a population problem on the server itself.

Most players act like the problem doesn't exist, and this ostrich mentality discourages the devs from doing what's necessary (mergers or server structure changes to bring players together). And besides the bump that freedom will bring, failing to acknowledge issues that are important to the silent majority of the mmo genre's playerbase (ghost town servers being one I assure you), will just result in a continued decline.

Perhaps it's impossible to avoid altogether, but acknowledging and reacting to the problem would likely slow this exodus, and at the very least make gameplay more enjoyable for those who are sticking it out.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
SF's MUCH less rewarding for the time that hero Tf, and less of them. A good example of this is the Renault and moonfire TF's. Renault not only takes longer but rewards less...
That's a good example? First of all, the rewards are based on ACTUAL TIMES to run the TF's. They didn't pick the numbers out of thin air.
Secondly, having run both of them this week, Renault was much faster.

Now I'll point out that a handful of runs by different people with different teams are essentially meaningless.

For *ME*, the biggest problem redside is something that can't be fixed. I don't like being a villain. It has nothing to do with the powersets, the contacts or the zones - I don't like playing a bad guy.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis View Post
The problem isn't as big as it seems. Blueside will always have more players. Now the devs could focus on bringing out new stuff and making changes to the redside while neglecting blue and that would move people around a little.

But really, as long as there's enough people on the server in general, redside will be okay. If there's a population problem redside, then there's likely a population problem on the server itself.

Most players act like the problem doesn't exist, and this ostrich mentality discourages the devs from doing what's necessary (mergers or server structure changes to bring players together). And besides the bump that freedom will bring, failing to acknowledge issues that are important to the silent majority of the mmo genre's playerbase (ghost town servers being one I assure you), will just result in a continued decline.

Perhaps it's impossible to avoid altogether, but acknowledging and reacting to the problem would likely slow this exodus, and at the very least make gameplay more enjoyable for those who are sticking it out.
The devs can't fix most players wanting to be heroes. Period. End of discussion.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
The solo content is better redside ill admit that.

But the population and reward imbalance are so great as to nullify it.
The content is better on redside because honestly, it's usually easier to write good evil storylines than it is heroic.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser View Post
I can definitely see this. I'd rather see them add new contacts or SFs that use the space they already have. The redside zones have so many nooks and crannies that are never really used outside of one mission here or there, like the Crey HQ or the Sky Raiders water base. I'd love to see more content added that expanded these little sub-zones in the bigger zones.
Hell, they have the entire middle section of Diable Isle between CaD and Port Oakes. Ever look at it on the map? It's at least as big as each existing zone.

I could also have a ton of fun exploring the complex that I know much exist under Aeon City.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garielle View Post
Not to burst your bubble, but I have yet to hear any redname make a single statement that would indicate to me there will ever be zone revamps redside. To the contrary, when discussing the Atlas Park/Mercy Island zone and mission revamps in I21, War Witch pretty much indicated that they specifically chose not to revamp the look of Mercy Island because the Rogue Isles has a distinct style that they did not want to change.
That doesn't mean they won't ever revamp a redside zone though. They revamped Atlas because it really was showing it's age and they could use the new tech to get it to look more as the originally intended. I saw what WW said as more an indicator that as a zone, Mercy was a lot closer to their intended mark and that was the main reason they didn't revamp it. I don't remember her exact quote, but I'd bet money that what she said couldn't be parsed to apply to all red side zones.

With Ultra Mode Tech, they can make differential between St Martial's glitzy casino district and it's back alleys more stark. They can go back to northern Nerva and give Primeva and Thorn Isle some much needed love in light of the updating of the Circle of Thorns.

There's a lot of room for improvement and several spots in the Isles I'd be willing to argue didn't hit the target with the dev's intended look. There's also big sections that look tacked on as an afterthought and could use some definite story and graphical redevelopment.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

CoV was the 2nd attempt at writing the game, Praetoria the third. Each took lessons learned from the previous while designing it.

CoV has clean distinct story arcs. CoH has story arcs but they may be buried among a plethora of unrelated missions. CoV has fewer "go kill 10 rats" or "go visit these 5 spots" missions. However in terms of shear number of missions, CoH simply has a ton more. Missions in CoV also are better written. However their was a much longer delay before Level 41-50 missions became available in CoV (7 months Vs 2 months in CoH).

CoV zones remind me more of old European cities, with short narrow streets that don't meet at nice right angles (not fun for superspeeders). CoH is more open, has a less claustrophobic feeling to it. CoV has a more dynamic environment, more trash randomly blowing about, seagulls flying in the skies. CoV's architecture is also more intricate. Less different sized boxes and more unique, complex buildings. The added polygon count make CoV slower when it first came out. You could have an acceptable framerate in CoH but CoV knocks 20% off. It also pushed the realistic minimum hardware requirements up. I would imagine that for some the decrease in performance in CoV was enough to dissuade them from playing there until they got a better rig.

CoV mob critters count fell somewhere between normal and hazard zone densities from CoH. Combine that with the narrow streets and compactness of the zones you could easily turn the corner on the way to a mission and find yourself in a world of hurt.

And all these differences still don't address the basic issue of being your own villain instead of being just another participate in Lord Recluse's Darwinian experiment to find the chosen ones. I'll reiterate what others have said, you feel like a minion or lackey and less like your own (wo)man.


Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components

Tempus unum hominem manet

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
The devs can't fix most players wanting to be heroes. Period. End of discussion.
True enough. I know at least one person in my regular global that doesn't like beating up heroes and will only play red content, if any at all, that won't pit him against said heroes.


61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
I'll reiterate what others have said, you feel like a minion or lackey and less like your own (wo)man.
I'll say here something I said in a discussion with Sam_Tow in another thread recently. When it comes to the original red side content, you're for the most part correct. However I feel the devs have been doing their best to take this lesson to heart and address this concern you (and most people) have.

If you look at villain stuff added since the buyout, it by and large avoids this pitfall. Dean MacArthur, Leonard Silman, and Dr Graves in particular. Of course there's a distinct lack of autonomy and divergent choices, but at least in terms of the writing you're much more an active part of your own story instead of just an errand boy on the edge of events. If you have to go along with things that make you feel like a chump, at least now it's written such that you're doing it to play a trick on the people trying to use you.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser View Post
Let me also add: mayhem missions are a heck of a lot easier than safeguards in terms of racking up XP and additional time.
Really? I found mayhems to be a bit more difficult intially.



------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------