Villians how to fix redside
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2011-09-03 11:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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1. Dingy, depressing? Not sure where you get this..I don’t find redside depressing at all. And yes, some areas are dingy..because, ya know..its set in a DINGY part of the world? Oh no, parts of grandville are dingy..its meant to be, and completely looks like I imagine that type of city. I think the only cool looking zones heroside happen to be the non standard cut and paste ones, like fault, croatoa etc. The city ones..once you have seen one, you have seem em all.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
"Fixing" redside would mean almost completely gutting it, IMHO. Why?
1. Looks dingy and depressing. Unless you're on Metal Fort Built On dingy and Depressing. Or Something with Neon Built on Dingy and Depressing. Seriously - I get having *some* areas like that, sure. But everything? Blah. And some just don't make sense. St. Martial - the casino area, where you'd imagine they'd want to keep tourism going and keep it nice and shiny has roads that end in gigantic potholes or just fall apart... and the "strip," as it were, is just a couple buildings long. It's not even a *half*hearted effort. 2. No variety. C'mon, name the contacts... because you see them *every single time.* See also "Recipe for fast burnout." The unlockables, I assume, were an attempt to give some variety, but - yeah, who remembers most of them before they're outlevelled? 3. Too few zones. Yeah, talk about "streamlined" all you want, but at least blueside I have multiple paths with multiple sets of contacts and a different experience, not just in contacts but in environment. It keeps things fresh. 4. Not villainous. Most of the contacts are written as "Hey, dupe, c'mere and do this" with you as a thug, with... what, two? doing "I'm EEEEEEEVIL and disgustingly so!" No inbetween, and until recently, almost nothing that makes it feel like you're doing these because it's YOUR plan and YOUR idea. Heroside, at least, they're asking for help, you're "investigating" and whatnot. Though that is easier to write for. |
2. No variety? Are you high? Just about every contact in the level ranges redside is totally different to the others. Whereas, blueside, contacts contain overlapping missions. Try the contacts in GV..and compare them to what blue has available post 40. Its..Tina..Unai..Maria. That’s basically it for variety there. And shall we get into Unai’s arc being basically the SAME missions closing ruptures over and over? Yes Bill, awesome variety. Compare that to the 40+ content in gv, where every arc is fun.
3. Too few zones? Um..ok. Lets have a show of hands..who here goes frequently to..boomtown, perez, eden, faultine? The shard? Not counting tf's that send you to those places, I would dearly LOVE to see how many people go to these apparently amazing zones. Not saying I dont like those zones of course..I love the faultine arcs..but claiming redside has too few zones, when the 'extra' ones blueside has are deserted wastelands, is, IMHO, dumb.
4. Not sure what your moaning about. It’s not right for a 'lesser' villain, that is, YOU, to get asked to do a scheme from a villain one step up in the food chain? Shall we talk about basically ANY crime movie or book around, where its minor league guys working for the big players?
And whets your problem with no ‘in between missions’? Look hero side again Bill..there are NO story arcs where you are anything other than a goody goody hero. So why should redside suddenly have arcs where you can work in shades of gray? If it doesn’t work on one side of the game, why are you cool with it on the other?
Just to quote another bit of your amazingly well thought out post..
'Heroside, at least, they're asking for help, you're "investigating" and whatnot.'
Gee, amazing! Cause there’s totally no arc villain side where they ASK you to help, or investigate something. Nope, none whatsoever.
Tell me Bill..do you even PLAY redside?
Reasons why blueside has more players? Really tricky...the farms in PI. I remember back when they were done, and the whole of PI would be farmers and people begging for farms..while GV would have maybe a few tv farms going..and 20+ people DOING the arcs. Amazing 20 people can stand that lack of variety, I know.
Just look at how many farms are run in atlas now, compared to ANY redside zone. I know which side I prefer based on that. So please, blueside lovers, stay in atlas. We don’t want you over on the fun side.
Also, feel free to look at any of my opinions in reverse, as to the reasons why I like redside.
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The reactor is the most dreadfully boring waste of time blue side. And that's saying something. I don't think I've ever been on a failed treespec, maybe one or two when I just started, but I can't actually recall any.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
The reactor is mildly annoying, but I've never been on a successful "treespec." After several horrible failures, I stopped joining them altogether. I assumed that all villain TFs would be similarly more annoying than the hero's (which already tend to be more trouble than they're worth in my experience) and avoided all other redside TFs while I was playing there.
Right now I'm looking forward to I21 which will allow me to avoid Red and Yellow zones altogether (though I may make a trip to First Ward from time to time) as a matter of course. |
I regularly do the redside SFs for fun, the blueside TFs are only run once per character for the badges. (Except the new Posi x2 and Statesman, I like those.) The old blueside trials I actually like though (Hollows, Sewer, Eden) I wish redside had some more stuff like that.
And now I'm on the subject, I wish they changed the Sewer and Eden trials to the 38-50 level range. I think they would be run a lot more that way.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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I agree and you can add the Mortimer Kall SF to that list. I really enjoy those newer arcs and appreciate the effort the devs have put in to deal with this particular player complaint.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
I'll say here something I said in a discussion with Sam_Tow in another thread recently. When it comes to the original red side content, you're for the most part correct. However I feel the devs have been doing their best to take this lesson to heart and address this concern you (and most people) have.
If you look at villain stuff added since the buyout, it by and large avoids this pitfall. Dean MacArthur, Leonard Silman, and Dr Graves in particular. Of course there's a distinct lack of autonomy and divergent choices, but at least in terms of the writing you're much more an active part of your own story instead of just an errand boy on the edge of events. If you have to go along with things that make you feel like a chump, at least now it's written such that you're doing it to play a trick on the people trying to use you. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
I think the overall problem with Villain content in general can be summed up in two words...Villains Loose! Now that may make you think that the devs hate villains, but this isn't the case, but they are stuck having to enforce the notion that evil never prospers. So no matter how many banks you rob, or how many times you beat the Phalanx, you will loose in the end. With this mindset, you really have nothing more to aspire to than to be the lacky of some two-bit schemer that needs you for muscle, or some larger experiment in survival-of-the-fittest for Arachnos. Either way, no matter how far you come as a villain, the story is never over until you are defeated. Only when we can have the type of content where we as villains achieve real and significant victories, will we every have a feeling of equality with heroes.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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this...
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
/this
i despise playing blueside, as soon as GR came out the first thing i did was make all heroes i had into full villains the blue zones IMO are awful, they are massive and travel times are much longer than anywhere redside, the zones are too bright for me, i prefer the darkness of redside, the blue tfs are immensely more boring than redside ones (although i would prefer more redside sf's and GMs) the upcoming changes to mercy story arcs in i21 are fantastic, makes me feel more like a villain than the old content did |
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Right. Because Founders Falls looks just like Talos which looks just like Dark Astoria which looks just like Skyway... oh, they don't? |
Originally Posted by MisterD
1. Dingy, depressing? Not sure where you get this..I don’t find redside depressing at all. And yes, some areas are dingy..because, ya know..its set in a DINGY part of the world? Oh no, parts of grandville are dingy..its meant to be, and completely looks like I imagine that type of city. I think the only cool looking zones heroside happen to be the non standard cut and paste ones, like fault, croatoa etc. The city ones..once you have seen one, you have seem em all.
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And you "expect" Grandville - the seat of power for Recluse - to look like a trash heap? A trash heap with a metal bit sticking out the top? If *ANYWHERE* should be meticulously clean, it should be the "Seat of Power." Not only for looks (I mean, really, how powerful can someone be if they essentially let their own nest remain fouled?) but for security. (And building these *massive metal structures* on top of old buildings just looks... bluntly... *really stupid* and poorly planned out. One thing I do appreciate is the occasional bit of dialog from the Banes mentioning "I don't think the old buildings can handle all this." C'mon, a line soldier can see this but none of the upper levels can?)
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| 2. No variety? Are you high? Just about every contact in the level ranges redside is totally different to the others. |
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| 3. Too few zones? Um..ok. Lets have a show of hands..who here goes frequently to..boomtown, perez, eden, faultine? The shard? Not counting tf's that send you to those places, I would dearly LOVE to see how many people go to these apparently amazing zones. Not saying I dont like those zones of course..I love the faultine arcs..but claiming redside has too few zones, when the 'extra' ones blueside has are deserted wastelands, is, IMHO, dumb. |
It's obvious you didn't actually read this. Or pick up that it's also related to point 2 that you obviously didn't read.
Redside, I go through... mercy, oakes (same 3-4 contacts,) cap (same few contacts,) etc, etc, etc. Same people. Same depressing scenery every single time.
Blueside, I can go from Atlas (and unfortunately no longer galaxy come I21) to the Hollows, if I want... or king's row (two zones, again, that look totally different.) I can deal with the Lost, Clocks, etc over in Skyway and dip down into faultline, or I can go through Steel Canyon. Then on to Talos... or IP if I decide my character would deal more with the Family and Tsoo instead of Freaks and Warriors. Quick run into Croatoa, *if I want it,* or over into Striga to deal with the arcs there. You only finally get "funneled" somewhere in the 30s where you go to Bricks... though you can still finish up Croatoa, and then go to the RWZ, back to PI.
Far more flexibility in the paths I can take and the contacts I run.
Why? More zones, more contacts. Add more to redside and they start feeling crammed into whatever nook and cranny they can fit them to.
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| 4. Not sure what your moaning about. It’s not right for a 'lesser' villain, that is, YOU, to get asked to do a scheme from a villain one step up in the food chain? |
What do I do? "Go beat them up. No, don't show any initiative. Just beat stuff up because you're told to." I should be proving myself worthy of this whole "Destined one" spiel - or proving I'm strong enough to do what I want *despite* trying to be railroaded into this schtik. Being "Brainless Thug 2983745762" is not the way to do that.
And unlike heroside, until recently there was very little writing that had you actually "win" villainside. You might get some minor power, but whatever you stole - went to someone else. You're pointed at someone to defeat, but not really for *your* benefit - that's more of a side benefit if anything. Or a goad. Heroside, you rescue someone - because they're heroic. And they stay rescued. Or bring you deeper into breaking up a plot. You stop the Circle from ripping the souls out of everyone in Founders Falls, for instance, or keep the Nictus from taking over world leaders. Villainside? Oh, you're told you robbed a bank. Somehow this bank only had about 100 inf or whatever the end-of-mission bonus is. Woohoo. Yeah, really feel like I'm making an impact there.
And look at... oh, the *entire VEAT* arc path. OK, at first you deal with your former cohorts who don't like you trying to get ahead. Fair enough. And you try to find out what's goign on, destiny wise... so you're fine to, what, level 15-20. Then you can tell the arcs got rushed, because, gee, 1-2 missions of going "You're a destined one!" "No you're not, just kidding!" "Oh, yeah you are!" to finally be told "Ha, ha, you're a dupe, Recluse is yanking your chain for laughs." Yeah... encouraging there. Oh, but you get to end with "Um, well, you survived, congrats, and I know this makes no sense if you didn't pick a patron. Now... um... go beat up statesman or something, for giving a really bad speech."
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| And whets your problem with no ‘in between missions’? |
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| Tell me Bill..do you even PLAY redside? |
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| Reasons why blueside has more players? Really tricky...the farms in PI. |
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| Just look at how many farms are run in atlas now, compared to ANY redside zone. |
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^ QFT|
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
Redside is broken? Well, this is news to me.
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/Thread
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I find mayhems easier and more fun to boot.|
Originally Posted by ebon3
Really? I found mayhems to be a bit more difficult intially.
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I agree with the general sentiment that redside missions make you feel the lackey. You're a super powered thug, riding along on other people's plots and plans, acting as their muscle for hire. Even if they don't pay you in cash or other loot, you're often paid in "attention" within Arachnos. Almost everything comes down to trying to climb the ladder of good graces in Arachnos.
This surely doesn't meet many people's notion of a super villain. Sure, some super villains are thugs who ride the coat tails of more ambitious masters. Its obvious those aren't the most popular ones for people to imagine their characters as.
I do agree that this has improved over time, and that Freedom is trying to change the early sense of it dramatically. I think these are good changes, and I hope they can continue.
Now, I could care less that the Rogue Isles are dingy. (And they are definitely dingy.) It doesn't bother me at all.
I always felt that the actual writing in the villain missions and arcs was better executed that hero missions of the time, even if I often disliked the "pro Arachnos" spin they had. I love the tendency to only give missions in the same zone as the contact, the lack of "hunt X" and fedex missions, the tendency for most missions to be part of an arc, and the lack of largely unused zones. I think all of those were great improvements over hero side. I still play my villains in their native missions, and do not take them heroside. In fact, all my villains are still at least Rogues by alignment. Only badgers will become heroes, and when they are done badging, they go back.
(By the way, I love the sense of the Rogue tip and morality missions. They're perfect for how I viewed most of my villains all along.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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"That type of city" is all City of Villains has. Whereas Paragon City has shining, gleaming monuments to mankind's glory as well as downtrodden poor ghettos and quite a few themes in-between, the Rogue Isles only have one theme - depressing. Everything is earth brown and gunmetal grey, the skies are always overcast, everything clean is always juxtaposed next to something dirty and there isn't a single place on the Isles that I could stand in and think "Wow, this is pretty!" without thinking "...unlike everything else."|
Originally Posted by MisterD
Dingy, depressing? Not sure where you get this..I dont find redside depressing at all. And yes, some areas are dingy..because, ya know..its set in a DINGY part of the world? Oh no, parts of grandville are dingy..its meant to be, and completely looks like I imagine that type of city.
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This assumption that villains can only ever exist in "a hive of scum and villainy" is easily the biggest boat anchor around City of Villains. Fact of the matter is, people like nice things, and the Rogue Isles don't have nice things almost at all. I want at least one new zone villain-side that doesn't look so obviously evil and horrible, reality be damned.
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Originally Posted by MisterD
No variety? Are you high?
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Every contact in City of Villains treats us like low-life scum only worthy of contempt, but they are forced to lower themselves to dealing with bottom-feeders like us anyway. Willy Wheeler is probably the sole exception from the old content, but the post-I17 content has been much more benign. Vut, if we're counting post-I17 content...
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Too few zones? Um..ok. Lets have a show of hands..who here goes frequently to..boomtown, perez, eden, faultine? The shard?
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By contrast, most Rogue Isles islands aren't even a mile across, their "cities" consist of a handful of small buildings or all of four or five larger ones and if it weren't for the fog, you'd see the shoreline of the islands from any point on them. The Rogue "Isles" aren't islands at all, they're tiny rocky outcroppings in the sea which couldn't support more than a couple thousand people per rock. The only one with any sense of size is Port Oaks/Cap Au Diable because they're two settlements on the same island, and with what I can see past the end of the zone looks like miles of uninhabited land. That's the only place which actually LOOKS like a genuine island. Everything else is tiny, tiny, tiny by comparison. Way back in I3, I hoped and prayed that the developers would stop with the "Something Island" new zones, after Peregrine Island and Striga Isle ended up small and unimpressive. Then they made City of Island. Feh!
Check out any small Pacific or Atlantic island chain on Google Maps (say, Cape Verde) and note how large those islands are. Sure, not as big as Hawaii's "big island," but they're big enough to all have multiple settlements on them. And, yes, those aren't exactly BIG settlements, but then NONE of City of Villains' settlments are big. They just have tall buildings and tall walls in them. But in terms of land area, all seven villain zones combined wouldn't make up the size of any believable, settle island chain.
City of Villains needs more zones and it needs much bigger zones, or at the very least it needs zones that are only a portion of an island. For instance, we pretty much know that the Etoille Islands are what Hequat pulled from the sea to house the cast out Mu. Fair enough, only in Oranbegan lore, she is said to have pulled "an island" - singular - from the sea. If all of City of Villains too place on that one island, with each zone constituting a port city, with probably one - say, Grandville - situated inland and land-locked, then I wouldn't have a problem. But City of Villains doesn't have seven zones because the development team thought fewer zones were "better." It has fewer zones because they couldn't afford to make more.
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Not sure what your moaning about. Its not right for a 'lesser' villain, that is, YOU, to get asked to do a scheme from a villain one step up in the food chain? Shall we talk about basically ANY crime movie or book around, where its minor league guys working for the big players?
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Reasons why blueside has more players? Really tricky...the farms in PI. I remember back when they were done, and the whole of PI would be farmers and people begging for farms..while GV would have maybe a few tv farms going..and 20+ people DOING the arcs. Amazing 20 people can stand that lack of variety, I know.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I generally don't like villainside. There are a few things I do like, however:
- Cap. It's the most convenient zone! Everything is near the BM! I LOVE CAP!
- Mortie Kai SF. BEST st/tf ever! Short, sweet, hysterically funny dialogue. What's not to love? Each time I run it, I find something new to laugh about. Wonderful stuff!
-The guy that sells flight packs is lots easier for a lowbie to get to than the guy heroside.
Um... ok, that was it.
Dislike:
-tends to have poor players. NO, NOT YOU READING THIS! In summer, I could swear the average age of anyone red side is 14. Ever find yourself on a team, it's going really badly, because team leader thinks you can level faster at +3 on your level 12 toon? After the 4th team wipe, the leader silently quits the team. And, should you happen to be trudging back from hospital at this time, you will see that SAME person, broadcasting that they are starting a team. I'm not saying this doesn't happen blue side. I'm saying in 5 years of playing a lot, I've never seen it blue side.
-it's dismal and dreary. Some stuff is beautiful. However in missions, I have to jump over crap strewn all over. Why? It's just soul-sucking depressing. (And this is my primary reason for not playing redside, btw. I just get more and more glum playing in that dreary ambiance for any length of time. My husband doesn't play over there for the same reason.
-it's hard to navigate unless you have flight. Why? Flight isn't necessarily the best option for many AT's.
-you're someone's minion until you're 50. Then you are the minion of your patron. So, all that work, and .... you are the chump of a higher class villain. I am missing the point of this.
-I don't know the good contacts, the good arcs, or heck, even how to get the midnighters arc. (I know the contact. Have done missions for her! Can i get in the door? Um.. sometimes. And why lvl 35?? Why do some toons have this arc unlocked? Why not others?) Now, I'm sure this info is available somewhere. I read the forums and the guides all the time. Have not run across this info. So, could hit the Wiki. But.. why? I would have to have the desire, and frankly, I just don't.
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Yeah, "droll" doesn't make sense in context. Mind you, "drool" is redundant even if it were spelled right, but it's still the lesser of two nonsenses.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Oh... he was going for drool?
I assumed he meant "droll." Which didn't make a heckuva lotta sense, now that I think about it... |
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The Rogue Isles always remind me of that spectacular rant from the end of Johnny Mnemonic. It's the high-water mark of Keanu's acting career, which comes across as damning with faint praise, but there it is. I've always wished there was some promontory or corner in the Isles where you could just barely see Paragon City off in the distance, so I could envision my extremely-reluctant-Destined Robotics Mastermind furiously delivering it to some other villain:|
Originally Posted by MisterD
1. Dingy, depressing? Not sure where you get this..
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"What the ---- is going on? WHAT THE ---- IS GOING ON? You know, all my life, I've been careful to stay in my own corner. Looking out for Number One... no complications. Now, suddenly, I'm responsible for the entire ----ing world, and everybody and his mother is trying to kill me, If... if... the Arbiters don't erase my parents from history first."
"Maybe it's not just about you any more."
"Listen. You listen to me. You see that city over there? That's where I'm supposed to be. Not down here with the Snakes, and the garbage, and the ----ing last month's newspapers blowing back and forth. I've had it with them, I've had it with you, I've had it with all this - I want ROOM SERVICE! I want the club sandwich, I want the cold Mexican beer, I want a $10,000-a-night ******! I want my shirts laundered! Like they do... at the Geneva Hotel... in Paragon."
My biggest problem with redside can be aptly illustrated by the following:
Level 35 to 39 content
- Automatic Villainy (Technician Naylor): Devouring Earth, Longbow, Nemesis
- Blurring the Lines (Agent Arthur Bell): Longbow
- Bravo for the Shadow Shard (Technician Naylor): Longbow
- Crossfire (Arbiter Leery): Arachnos, Longbow
- Devil May Care (Johnny Sonata): Arachnos, Circle of Thorns, Longbow, Wailers
- Fat Cat City (Basse Croupier): Carnival of Shadows, Arachnos, Longbow
- Johnny's Squeeze (Jezebel Jones): The Family, Longbow
- The Missing Maidens (Jezebel Jones): Carnival of Shadows
- No One Gets It (Arbiter Leery): Arachnos, Longbow
- The Secret of the Circle (Magus Mu'Drakhan): Circle of Thorns, Longbow
- A Traitorous History (Magus Mu'Drakhan): Circle of Thorns, Longbow
Level 40 to 44 content
- Absolute Vengeance (Arbiter Daos): Malta
- Apt Pupil (Number 204): Arachnos, Nemesis, Longbow, Arachnoids
- Arachnoid Appetizers (Terrence Dobbs): Arachnoids
- The Arachnoid Cure (Terrence Dobbs): Arachnoids
- Armor Wars (Black Scorpion): Crey, Arachnoids, Malta
- The Bane of the Heart (Westin Phipps): Arachnos, Longbow, Crey, Turrets
- Breaking Knives (Arbiter Daos): Knives of Artemis
- Building a Better Vermin (Terrence Dobbs): Arachnoids, Crey
- ***** in the Armor (Black Scorpion): Arachnos, Ghosts
- The Circle's Plot (Mage-Killer Zukhara): Circle of Thorns
- The Crey Intrusion (Regent Korol): Crey
- The Hammer of the World (Scirocco): Circle of Thorns, Longbow, Rularuu, Arachnos, Carnival of Shadows
- Killer Instinct (Capt. Mako): Longbow, Knives of Artemis
- Kuhr'Rekt Diplomacy (Ambassador Kuhr'Rekt): Council, Longbow, Rikti
- Kuhr'Rekt Revenge (Ambassador Kuhr'Rekt): Longbow, Rikti, Arachnos, Vindicators, Freedom Phalanx
- Life and Death (Ghost Widow): Circle of Thorns, Arachnos
- Miss Francine the Freakshow Teacher (Westin Phipps): Freakshow Longbow
- Mystic Mayhem (Ghost Widow): Longbow, Circle of Thorns, Crey Carnival of Shadows
- The Perfect Killing Machine (Capt. Mako): Circle of Thorns, Arachnos, Coralax
- Power from the Past (Sister Airlia): Cimerorans, Longbow
- Project Fury (Dr. Forrester): Arachnoids, Arachnos
- The Rebels (Westin Phipps): Rogue Arachnos, Longbow
- Shucking Souls (Mage-Killer Zukhara): Arachnos, Circle of Thorns
- A Wind Called Serafina (Scirocco): Arachnos, Nemesis, Longbow, Malta, Knives of Artemis
- Alone in the Darque (Efficiency Expert Pither): Arachnos, Nemesis, Rularuu
- Ancient History (Operative Grillo): Snakes, Circle of Thorns
- Brain Power (Ghost Widow): PPD, Longbow, Council, Malta
- The Code Merlin (Tavish Bell): Crey, Circle of Thorns
- The Conference of Evil (Viridian): Family, Nemesis, Longbow, PPD, Freakshow, Crey, Council
- Crimson Hunt (Shadow Spider): Malta, Knives of Artemis, Longbow
- The Destiny Raids (Black Scorpion): Longbow, PPD, Arachnos, Nemesis
- Escaped! (Operative Grillo): Crey
- The Great Grun Gathering (Vernon von Grun): Council, Malta, Longbow
- Indigo Hunt (Shadow Spider): PPD, Longbow
- Iron Fist (Capt. Mako): Longbow, PPD, Crey, Malta
- Light and Darkness (Abyss): Council, PPD
- Politics, Cimeroran Style (Sister Airlia): Longbow, Cimeroran Traitors, Cimerorans, Family, Crey
- Snake Fest (Operative Grillo): Snakes, Crey
- The Spirit City of Hequat (Scirocco): Carnival of Shadows, Circle of Thorns, Arachnos, Mu
- Time after Time (Black Scorpion): Rogue Arachnos, Arachnos, Ghosts
- The TV Invasion (Television): Freakshow, Devouring Earth, Nemesis, Family
- The TV Report (Television): Arachnos, Knives of Artemis, Malta, Arachnoids
- Video Killed the Radio (Television): Council, Arachnos, Freakshow
- Vigilante Justice (Tavish Bell): Council, Arachnos, Scrapyarders, Longbow, Crey
- Vindication (Abyss): Longbow
- Von Grun's Lament (Vernon von Grun): Devouring Earth
- Von Grun's Redemption (Vernon von Grun): Devouring Earth, Longbow, PPD, Crey
- Von Grun's Science (Vernon von Grun): Devouring Earth
My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money
Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?
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Broken no|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
^ QFT
/Thread |
Way way underpopulated
Yes...
And that is a problem, picking apart wording is in no way going to help fix this.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
At this point, I have pretty much given up ever seeing anything done to balance the content between the two sides. There doesn't seem to be enough interest on the part of the development team to put the time and effort in. In fact, if anything, I see a tendency to take the few benefits that Redside has and change blue side to give them the same benefits.
Case in point. on the blue side, there are 11 normal zones plus 9 hazard zones for a total of 20 zones. On the red side, there are 7 normal zones, and no hazard zones. This means blue side has nearly three times as many zones. One upon a time, this used to be balanced by the fact that to travel between these zones, you had to make multiple hops. For example. to get from Atlas Park to Talos, you had to take the train to Steel Canyon or Skyway, switch lines, and then take the train to Talos.
A few issues though, they connected together all the lines, so in most cases, you can get to any of the normal zones with a single hop. The only times you need to do more than one hop are if you are going to a hazard zone or to Peregrine Island. This completely removed any semblance of balance between the two sides.
Somehow it just makes sense that travel across a smaller area should be quicker. Somehow this logic seems to escape those who pleaded for the change as well as the developers who implemented it.
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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-in your opinion.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Broken no
Way way underpopulated Yes... And that is a problem, picking apart wording is in no way going to help fix this. |
In my experience, I find plenty of population on both Red and Blue sides.
Possibly because I am no longer of the PUGing mentality, and instead play with friends and folks on channels. Which does wonders for that.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well...wow. That really does put it in perspective.|
Originally Posted by Basilisk
My biggest problem with redside can be aptly illustrated by the following:
Level 35 to 39 content
Level 40 to 44 content
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..,Damn, son. Not good =/ Diversity: Severely lacking.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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CoH for Level 20-30 we have Talos, Independence Port, Tera Volta, Striga, last half of Faultline, first half of Croatoa. The amount of content is simply staggering.
CoV for Level 20-30 we have Sharkhead, 1/3rd of Nerva Archipeligo and a nibble of St. Martial. Of course CoV introduced the concept of the newspaper mission as a way to get additional missions outside of arcs, giving the player a choice in the matter. This was later ported to CoH so they can get hero versions of the mayhem missions (that show off destructible environments and PhysX) villains got by doing newspaper missions.
CoV also added cut scenes, which is a way to convey some back story by halting the game so you can read the critter's dialog before mowing through them, it does break up the flow. It's just another minor annoyance to add to the CoV pile.
Now I'll admit that my exposure to CoV has been minimum and a lot of my opinions about it's feel comes from playing it during Issue 6 and 7. I only have one character in the low 30's and that's it. Haven't even gotten the Television yet as a contact.
CoV has a the dirty and/or claustrophobic feeling to the place coupled with larger mobs and smaller level oriented "neighborhoods" that makes Rogue Isles a more hostile environment to travel around in. Probably why I spend 90% of my time in Paragon.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
As to the OP, fixing redside is going to be harder than you think.
First off, while GG obviously isn't helping with the above post, there is something to be said about her past posts. Namely, it's not all about people wanting go where the crowd is, it's that people generally prefere to roll the hero.
It's a mentality thing. To be seen as the hero as much as heroes win, villains lose (your comic book villain for instance will never take over the world).
Yes, people get vocal over wanting the option, but that isn't the majority. I like playing a Rogue style character from time to time, but I wouldn't call that a true villain (much more the thrill seeker/theif who pulls off heroics).
The best way to get redside active (and you never know, if i21 brings a massive influx of new players, it just might become very active) is possibly for redside players to get active in promoting the game.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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In a recent superhero MMO than launched in January and crashed so hard they merged the servers in August, heroes and villains had the same amount of content, and shared the same zones - but the population wasn't split anywhere near 50-50 - the majority chose to play as heroes.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
it's not all about people wanting go where the crowd is, it's that people generally prefere to roll the hero.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Without sneering at the rest of the game and the people who enjoy it, as so often happens with any polarity distinction (red/blue, PvP/PvE, free/paid, etc. etc.).
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Originally Posted by BrandX
The best way to get redside active (and you never know, if i21 brings a massive influx of new players, it just might become very active) is possibly for redside players to get active in promoting the game.
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The other game started out with equal content, and players had the choice from the beginning on which side to play (something CoH didn't), and people STILL gravitated towards being a hero.
It's just as much mental on wanting to be seen as the hero as it is about wanting to feel like you're winning. Playing a villain means you lost.
Before i21 you kinda start out having lost, as you're breaking out of jail 
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Indeed. I21 is a bit better in that regards. Run forward, steal some guys powers, beat a Shivan, then teleport to Mercy and commence with murdering and torturing for a few levels. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Before i21 you kinda start out having lost, as you're breaking out of jail
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Also, in that other earlier superhero MMO which crashed and burned too, and which only has hero content, I've never heard of there being any big movement there for being able to play villains.
And as far as CoH content goes, red side gets too much - the majority plays blue side, but the new content is always split evenly between the majority and the minority, so that red side gets more than its population deserves, and blue side gets less - the devs really need to stop being so pro-Villain.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit