Villians how to fix redside

I always love these debates. I usually play both sides but prefer blueside for teaming and redside for solo, mission story, setting and atmosphere. On redside, people complain how it looks gray and depressing but seem to neglect how boring blueside looks/feels/paced. And the contacts on redside are quite diverse and I never quite feel like I'm doing the same thing since the climax usually pertains to a different hero I'm suppose to face. Heroes tend to feel like they're busting the same old thugs on the same old streets...but theen it's been a while since I played a hero.

Sam's post about size brough some things into perspective though. I love the redside look, but what he described does make a lot of sense. I think Mercy and Port Oaks seem fine but I could see revamping the zones to be more like Praetoria in that the islands are all close together in a way that you can see them in the distance so it looks like you're hopping from one isle to the next. Maybe dropping some of the more useless points (like the Freakshow forts) and either pushing them to a farer section of the map and increase their scale so they're more significant...there's lots of open water just begging to be taken up by 'stuff'

As to how to fix red side? Forced content.

Kinda like what I do. I make my own villains that my own heroes run into either as backstory or as their Rogue's gallery. I make them villainous, do arcs and TF to make them a threat that my heroes must face.

So, initiate a string of contacts/missions/story points that will pit your heroes against villains from your own server list. But those villains have to be leveled, run the content and hit the story point to be available for your hero to run against (and vise versa).

Example: You make a villain that ran arcs in Nerva where he takes over Argincourt and turn over occupation to Arachnos while you research something with CoT or the Devouring Earth in Primava. [insert conclusion to plot].

Then you level a hero who runs across an arc in that lvl range where you're saving longbow from Arachnos, liberating Agincourt and arresting the above villain of your creation. The reverse would happen on certain arcs but you'd be on your villain while the hero from you list pops up to ruin your research.

You can even have double rewards, one going to each of your created characters involved. If you don't have an equivalent hero/villain on your roster? Better team with someone who does. :P

Oh, what the heck, I'll put my two cents in because people expect me to be serious around here about as much as they expect the Spanish Inquisition.

I play both sides and enjoy both sides equally. And I would like to say right off the bat that BOTH sides need work. Blue side isn't perfect... if it were then they wouldn't be re-vamping Atlas Park and the low-level experience like they are for Freedom.

That being said, the topic of discussion here is Red-Side, so I'll limit my wish-list to that. Since I think better in lists, here are a few things I would change about red-side:

* Evil Is As Evil Does: I want to be a villain. By signing on at the character creation screen as a villain I hereby agree that I will NOT be offended by the heinous things that villains do. I am an adult and everyone who plays the game is allegedly a teen or older. We, as teens or older, accept that Villains are NOT GOOD PEOPLE. We are fully prepared to murder, steal, cheat, commit arson, hurt innocent people and do whatever we can to make ourselves more powerful. I want to be EVIL, not "slightly naughty but always willing to help out the other guy."

* Dominate The World Or Be A Subservient Lackey? Decisions, Decisions: Actually that over-simplifies things. Villains even more-so than Heroes have a wide variety of career paths. I would LOVE to see something similar to the contact trees from Praetoria in the Rogue Isles. Think of it... you arrive on Mercy and someone asks you what you want to do with yourself. You can choose from a short list of good solid villainous stereotypes: Megalomaniac Bent on World Domination, Homicidal Maniac Who Kills for Pleasure, Richest Man In World Ambition, Mercenary Who Works For Anyone Who'll Meet His Price. Like the current Praetorian model you can switch among them at will, but you get the chance to play your character as you've envisioned them. And only have to do the bidding of someone more powerful than you if you WANT to. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the entire "chosen one" story line go right into the recycle bin.

* More Good Guys!: I can see SOME fighting the other villain factions from time to time, but aren't we supposed to be battling heroes? On the other hand, I get very tired of fighting nothing but Long Bow. And honestly, why do we have to fight organized hero groups anyway? And why are they in the Rogue Isles to begin with?! One of the biggest things I would like to change is to have LESS missions in the Rogue Isles and MORE missions that take you to Paragon. Levels 1 through 20 you are proving yourself and don't get off the isles to do so... 21 and on you begin getting more and more strike missions against the heroes and businesses of Paragon. I feel more villainous taking out the PPD or some group of heroes than I do fighting Arachnos...

Most of my concerns are role-playing in nature. I want to FEEL like a Villain when I play a Villain and FEEL like a hero when I play one of those. As it is, BOTH sides end up making me feel a little purple.

It's forced because, if you don't have a villain in the 20s (using the example arc), taken the villain to Nerva and began/finished the example arc, it wouldn't even be accessible to your hero. You'd be locked out. Same deal for a non-equivalent arc being locked off your villain if you don't have a hero leveled and picked up the arc.

Semantics. Unlockable alludes to being accessible by that character in some fashion (unlockable costume pieces/slots for example). But that's beside the point. Even for players that don't like being villainous, I'd assume they like putting heinous criminals behind bars. Well how heinous? You get to set the bar. Does your hero fight off petty thieves or world-threat class types?

Do you seriously read the verbal diarrhea coming from your lips Sammy? I do not need to insult your intelligence at all..you do a damn fine job of that. Let us talk stupid allegations shall we? (Quotes from Sam are in '')

'People play hero-side because it's a better game that has more people in it which makes them feel good. People avoid City of Villains because it's the game the development team forgot, which ends up making people feel dirty for playing it.'


Yes, ok Sam..dead on the money there. Not. Its why this thread is full of people saying they LIKE redside. Basically it is why your post and Bill's are just wrong..your making all these claims that just are not true. Granted, it is YOUR opinion that redside makes you feel dirty (oh mommy, help, I got a speck on my white polo shirt, please help). Sure does not make a ton of people I know feel dirty.

'City of Villains needs more zones and it needs much bigger zones, or at the very least it needs zones that are only a portion of an island.’

Ok, obviously you enjoy those missions hero side where you have to run across 2 miles in IP..but I don’t. You can keep them. I am totally happy with my small villain zones. Why don’t you go play WoW if you are after a game that features massive zones you can walk across for days.

‘But City of Villains doesn't have seven zones because the development team thought fewer zones were "better." It has fewer zones because they couldn't afford to make more.’

So hang on..the devs thought less zones were better..but then, in your next sentence..you go on and claim it is because the can’t afford to make more? Is there any logic at all in that? Either they thought less were better, which in my opinion, is better, or they can’t afford it, because, apparently the number of zones had some direct correlation to the amount of funds they have?

‘No, it's not right for a "lesser" villain to be me, because I don't want to be a lesser villain. I'm never a lesser hero snubbed for being weak and ineffectual hero-side, so I shouldn't suffer fools villain-side.’

Never a lesser hero? Tell me..do you JOIN the freedom phalanx blueside? And no..I don’t mean just a shiny badge that changes and adds no story at all to the play. I mean, do you get an invite into the phalanx, get missions of that same calibre? No, you sure don’t(Besides Marias arc, where half the missions have you babysat by a NPC who can solo the map by themselves). But redside..you work for your patron..helping them while advancing your own goals, eventually basically become too powerful for even Recluse to pick on. Clearly, being too tough for Recluse = lesser.

‘Every contact in City of Villains treats us like low-life scum only worthy of contempt, but they are forced to lower themselves to dealing with bottom-feeders like us anyway.’

I can totally see why this is such a problem. Because redside, we are DESTINED ones. You know Sammy..destined? As in..not actually THERE yet? Obviously you feel that as a DO, we should begin the game doing super extreme hardcore villain schemes like trying to take over PC with the web device or something?

‘ I want at least one new zone villain-side that doesn't look so obviously evil and horrible, reality be damned.’

I see what you did there..apparently it is ok to stray outside the bounds of reality (neglecting the fact it is a GAME in the first place) but then you go on to complain that the island in the RI are not as big as the ‘real’ islands in the Pacific. Ah..what the? Are cities in paragon as big as ones in real life? Can you run across say..New York and only cover two miles? I guess that the in game world only has to follow, or not follow, reality, when you wish it. Not because maybe it was easier NOT to make cities and islands on a 1:1 scale with the real world.

And my favourite quote from you Sammy Boy..

‘Always a convincing argument practice, insulting your opposition.’

Then you go on to insult my arguments, that were not even directed at you, but rather Bill’s claims. And again, pay attention, I don’t care that YOU like blueside. I care that you claim to like it for a bunch of reasons that make zero sense and don’t stand up to any logic. Did you notice my arguments, or did some goats walk over your bridge? My arguments are my opinions..I like redside because..in my opinion, there is more variety in lvl 40+ content redside. Which, there IS. When you can show me that the 3 main contacts (5 if you count Harvey and crimson) in PI give more variety than the EIGTHTEEN contacts in GV, then maybe you will have something worth arguing about.