Villians how to fix redside
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2011-09-03 11:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Yeah? Now name any other examples of stuff like that from Villain side.|
Originally Posted by Arilou
*confused* but... in that case you DO win. You hand Lord Recluse his helmet. You beat up most of the Freedom Phalanx (including Statesman if you're a VEAT) in various story arcs.
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Hint: There are none, because the old writers wrote villains as lackeys.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Once, yes. Maybe twice, if you count dean... Maybe three times if you count that, Dean and Vincent. But that's pretty much it. In, what... Six years now? In six years, we've gotten only three little victories, and the rest are either downer endings (see Westin Phipps), idiot ball endings (see Kelly Uqua) or "nothing" endings (see Shadowy Figure).|
Originally Posted by Arilou
*confused* but... in that case you DO win. You hand Lord Recluse his helmet. You beat up most of the Freedom Phalanx (including Statesman if you're a VEAT) in various story arcs.
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Time After Time in all of its incarnations is one of my favourite arcs in the whole game. I forget how many times I've run it now, but I've managed to solo Recluse every time bar the first, because my broken Stone/Stone Brute was broken.
Beyond that, Dean/Leonard is just a cool story, but that's been beaten to death. I enjoy Vincent Ross for a couple of specific instances. The first is the deal with the demon. He warned me of dire, horrible consequences if I betrayed him. I betrayed him (I was playing Mage-Killer Po at the time) and then cut his shiny blue *** into small ribbons. Take THAT, smack-talking demon thing! The other is, of course, the ending. Not just the giant blow-up fight, either, but the fact that the Well itself tries to double-cross me and absorb me into the Leviathan, but I manage to double-cross it and steal its power. It's temporary, but it's just temporary enough for me to kick some serious faces.
That's good stuff. We just need more of it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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To be fair, there are a few. The new ones, for sure, but some of the old ones work, as well. Aside from Ghost Widow, the Patron Betrayal missions are pretty cool AND pretty "win." Willy Wheeler, much as the guy is a weasel, is still a pretty big win since you beat the bad guy AND make Willy look like a complete stooge. Maros is pretty cool, too, as his story has you trounce some serious, ancient evil, and the guy is polite the whole time. Even Operative Vargas is very satisfying.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah? Now name any other examples of stuff like that from Villain side.
Hint: There are none, because the old writers wrote villains as lackeys. |
It's just that those few contacts are the exceptions in a sea of uninspired contacts like Operative Kirkland, Arbiter Leery, the Shadowy Figure, Lorenz Ansaldo and so forth. Most contacts in City of Villains have arcs that don't amount to anything other than getting fake-paid.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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When they first announced CoH, my first thought was "I want to be a supervillain!". I was disappointed of course until CoV came out. Been "red" ever since, though lately i've been starting gold side for more AT combinations and newer content. Despite its flaws, i'm still a faithful villain. Having said that, let me add to the criticisms.
The heart of the matter? Imbalance. Both on a content level and a story level. CoV was an optional expansion when it came out, and never really got the attention it deserved due to the majority of "blue" players. Besides, why start all over in a smaller playground with less content after enjoying blue side for a year? New scenery? New ATs? It was enough for some people, like me, but many drifted back to blue side.
As for the overall story, let's face it...it sucked big time. If i play a hero, i get to constantly thwart the plans of evildoers. Growing in power and fame, my hero joins the ranks of the elite, becoming the equal of established heroes like Statesman, Back Alley Brawler, etc. Now if i play villain, the vibe changes drastically. I'm basically some pet project of Recluse. Every faction in the Isles attacks me on sight, from Longbow to Arachnos. Instead of pursuing my own path, i'm essentially a superpowered errand boy/girl. I never got that feeling like i was a true villain. When you finally defeat Recluse, he admits he underestimated you and you're now officially a supervillain...like the first 50 levels of your toon was an Origin Story, only that's it. You hit the level cap and your endgame content is limited.
Now, after 7 years, things are improving. The Architect and alignment missions are a step in the right direction, but it still has a long way to go before there's proper balance. What i feel truly needs to be done, is revamping the central storyline, or at least offer an alternate path. If you want to climb the ranks of Arachnos, fine. Leave that option open. If you want to pursue your own goals of global domination or destruction, then you need a whole new storyline. Add a new series of contacts like aspiring lackeys, temporary allies, temporary rivals, etc. We need a storyline that at least gives the illusion that this is all part of "your plan". In the end of course, you fall short of your goals, but hey...tomorrow's another day.
If you take a look at the upcoming The Old Republic, you'll see they had the right idea from the start. The Republic and the Empire are balanced. Both sides have an equal amount of content from the start, both offer a unique gaming experience, and both allow you to make decisions that affect your overall storyline hours down the road. No side is truly better than the other, and you are the real star of the story. Not Statesman. Not Recluse. You.
Sorry about the long winded post. I just needed to vent after 7+ years of red side angst. Carry on.
Check out my "Rule Britannia" series if you feel like something different. The arcs are #19599, #20575, #23977, #134775, #134923 and #144543. The series is complete, but spinoffs are in the works.
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Well, I'm not sure you can have seven years of redside angst. Four, maybe. Unless you're projecting your desire to be a villain from all the way at CoH release to cover the three years where CoH didn't exist at all. |
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
Sorry about the long winded post. I just needed to vent after 7+ years of red side angst. Carry on.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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More like 6. CoV launched in September of 2005, I think, and it's September of 2011 now.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Well, I'm not sure you can have seven years of redside angst. Four, maybe. Unless you're projecting your desire to be a villain from all the way at CoH release to cover the three years where CoH didn't exist at all.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Indeed. For some reason I thought it was released later than that.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I have to agree with Sam about this. The current Arachnos order always bothered me a bit. The very motif of the organization. is a creature that's very orderly, methodical and patient, but the whole, attack each other freely to prove who's the fittest doesn't see to jib with it.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Fixing villain-side would require giving Recluse a little more dignity as the de facto lord of the realm, possibly by giving him a zone that's less of a shithole, and at the same time giving players more opportunities to oppose him successfully, giving them the sense of having overcome a credible threat. Right now, the game's biggest fail is Arbiter Daos threatening to bring the full might of Arachnos on my head and the game playing my character like he's actually intimidated. Yeah, Arachnos, the dudes I've been slapping around like errant stepchildren since I was level 1, and I'm supposed to be afraid of them? Give me a break!
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I'd love for Arachnos to be recreated with Recluse putting his foot down and saying enough is enough. Rearrange the system to say you can challenge anyone you like, but in a way that it doesn't disrupt the day-to-day operations of Arachnos (much like ST:TOS Terran Empire, challenge as you will, but if it should endanger the Empire's goals then you face the Booth.)
"Huntsman Jones! With respect. you've again proven your inexperience detracts from your ability to lead effectively for Lord Recluse. Since the operation is now concluded... barely, I demand you stand with me before the Arbiters and be judged.... or face me in the Web of Equals"
It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets
... Hit it ...
... Hit it ...
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Trying to figure out what Arachnos stands for is to delve into some pretty interesting concept archaeology, and it would probably lead us to one of the root problems I've been talking about. Basically, the reason Arachnos exists on the Isles - practically speaking - is both as a limiting factor AND as an opportunity.|
Originally Posted by Jet_Boy
I have to agree with Sam about this. The current Arachnos order always bothered me a bit. The very motif of the organization. is a creature that's very orderly, methodical and patient, but the whole, attack each other freely to prove who's the fittest doesn't see to jib with it.
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We being villains, it was natural that we'd be tempted to want game-breaking things, such as killing shopkeepers so other people couldn't purchase gear, killing contacts so that other people couldn't get missions, blowing up buildings, killing civilians, killing other players and so forth. To combat this, a single centralised power was needed, and one that was stronger than just regular police forces, which in comic books are deliberately kept weak so as to leave room for heroes to be needed. Enter Arachnos - the murderous, ruthless dictatorship of the Isles who put down the law of the land and served as a deus ex machina to explain why we can't do certain things we can't do. At the same time, we being villains, we were supposed to be able to make a mess of things, to want to screw people over, and basically to sew chaos. To accomplish this, Arachnos needed to be both a strict authority and a not-so-stric authority at the same time. To this end, they're a self-serving authority, enforcing the laws they care about and letting people break the ones they don't.
I criticise Arachnos greatly, but many of its failings stem from the purpose it needed to serve in the very existence of a city of villains. This, however, is not an inevitable purpose, and owes its need to the game's basic concept. "City of Villains" is a flawed idea right at inception. I get why it was called that - it's a counterpart to City of Heroes. But what I don't get is why the game seems to have taken its name seriously when City of Heroes never did. In fact, look at all the "evil counterparts" City of Villains received, and note that they're counterparts not to good things, but to neutral concepts. The most basic example of this is "Infamy" in place of money. In City of Heroes, this is called "Influence," but is this really a goody two-shoes term? No, not in the slightest. In fact, having influence over people is much more crucial and much more practical for a villain than being infamous. Infamy is fame, influence is power, yet in an attempt to make the game more eeevil, villains got a less useful name for their currency.
City of Heroes is not about a city of heroes, but rather about a fictional city of heroes, villains and civilians. The name stands out because most comic books at the time only really had a few heroes to a city, at most a few dozen. We had hundreds of thousands, probably even millions by the first month of gameplay. But this still wasn't a city MADE UP of heroes any more so than "city of lag" is a city literally made up of lag. It's simply a city with very many heroes in it. City of Villains could have followed a similar framework, putting is in another contemporary city, but with much fewer heroes and a much higher crime rate. However, this didn't happen. City of Villains kept all the villains, but replaced the heroes with even more villains. It's really telling if you look at things practically. City of Heroes is actually a city of heroes and villains, but City of Villains is a city of villains and villains.
And that's a problem. From the very inception of red-side, people complained that they spent all their time fighting other villains instead of fighting heroes like a villain should. Well of course! It's a City of Villains! That's all there is to fight in it! Obvious answer is obvious, but the obvious question isn't: Why did it have to be a city of villains and villains? And indeed, why? Villains need heroes as much as heroes need villains. Playing a villain in a city that's already been destroyed and taken over by villains is about as dull as playing a hero in a city where crime never happens - that's not what either concept is about.
Arachnos as a final product is the sum total of every single reason why the concept of a city of villains and villains was a mistake - because it's an ugly, chaotic, unpleasant place where villains fight villains. Villains are the most impressive and most frightening when they make a good situation into a bad one. Having them fight each other over scraps is just demeaning, and that's what the majority of City of Villains is.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This is my perception, as well. Yes, I know some people really like redside, and I don't have an issue with that. But I don't. My one and only villain, created on day one of release, is only level 41 after all this time.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The problem isn't with the zones or the content.
The problem is with the fact that the majority of the people who pick up the game do so because they want to play a superhero. Revamping the zones and contacts isn't going to make people want to play it if they don't want to be a villain in the first place. |
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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^ Yes. VERY Yes, please
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Originally Posted by Jet_Boy
I have to agree with Sam about this. The current Arachnos order always bothered me a bit. The very motif of the organization. is a creature that's very orderly, methodical and patient, but the whole, attack each other freely to prove who's the fittest doesn't see to jib with it.
I'd love for Arachnos to be recreated with Recluse putting his foot down and saying enough is enough. Rearrange the system to say you can challenge anyone you like, but in a way that it doesn't disrupt the day-to-day operations of Arachnos (much like ST:TOS Terran Empire, challenge as you will, but if it should endanger the Empire's goals then you face the Booth.) "Huntsman Jones! With respect. you've again proven your inexperience detracts from your ability to lead effectively for Lord Recluse. Since the operation is now concluded... barely, I demand you stand with me before the Arbiters and be judged.... or face me in the Web of Equals" |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Indeed, it did not have to be a city of villains and villains, but Arachnos does serve an additional purpose you kind of passed over.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Why did it have to be a city of villains and villains? And indeed, why? Villains need heroes as much as heroes need villains. Playing a villain in a city that's already been destroyed and taken over by villains is about as dull as playing a hero in a city where crime never happens - that's not what either concept is about.
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As a recognized sovereign power, it also gives a reason why the heroes don't just wander over from Paragon en masse and clean up the place.
Essentially, the Rogue Isles are Latveria.
Also, of course, it was conceived of as an Expanshalone (a great concept), so there needed to be a place where villain players need never interact with Paragon and its' heroes outside of instances.
The Rogue Isles kind of had to be what they were. But they don't necessarily have to continue to be that.
I don't have a problem with the setting itself. I love the 'cautionary tale' aspect of it. It makes for great unique architecture and feel.
I think the basic problem is the fact that Arachnos is set up as the 'mission backbone'. If there were money in it, there is no reason why numerous other mission backbones cannot be also set up. Rising through the ranks of Arachnos is fine as a default path, but there should be alternate paths that give the player a strong and abiding illusion of making their own way IN ADDITION to all of that.
Let me take over an abandoned warehouse, turn it into a base, steal shipments of high tech supplies, intimidate a fence into working with me, research a super weapon...and let me do all that by choosing among various options/Contacts.
With my next character, let me take over a cave system for my base, research and steal an ancient tome from a powerful magician, summon up a vile entity to demand its' servitude...
I don't think its' anything that can't be done with what we already have in place. All you need is a chain of Contacts and missions leading to the various 'stock ubervillain' endpoints: despot, kingpin, terrorist, etc.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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This is really only necessary if your City of Villains is a literal city made up entirely of villains, as the Rogue Isles are. This sort of construct brings up the question of why an obviously evil nation is allowed to persist, and the answer is "foreign politics." Heavens knows we have enough of that in real life, so it's believable enough.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
As a recognized sovereign power, it also gives a reason why the heroes don't just wander over from Paragon en masse and clean up the place.
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However, villains didn't need to be stationed in an all-villain, obviously evil nation. They could have been stationed in a GOOD nation that just can't seem to get rid of them. If the East Coast is the city of heroes where law and order have secured a foothold, then have the West Coast be the crime-ridden part that the Rikti bombed to **** and now authorities just can't get the upper hand on crime. In such a construct, your villains could exist within a state that's still a good state and still supported as a government structure, but just one that is materially too weak to defeat crime entirely.
This would avoid the need for the Fantasy evil overlord that is Recluse and his veritable Blight as the state would be legitimate while still retaining both reason to have rules (go on a killing spree and you attract too much attention from authorities) while still giving villains free reign to be villains (authorities are too weak to go after anything but the most obvious crimes). What's more, by keeping both cities US-based, you give heroes and villains a better reason to mingle without turning Recluse into captain of the Statesman fanclub. Right now, Recluse's obsession with the Statesman seems almost petty because it's sideways of his real objectives. Have them both be US-based, however, and they'd have reason to cross paths that's greater than old rivalry. Moreover, heroes and villains will have more reason to clash other than that because Arachnos and Longbow are doing it.
Arachnos is the kludge solution to a problem which didn't need to exist, is my point. Every single failure of Arachnos as a theme can be laid at the feet of that one single decision to create a city of villains and villains.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
I think the basic problem is the fact that Arachnos is set up as the 'mission backbone'. If there were money in it, there is no reason why numerous other mission backbones cannot be also set up. Rising through the ranks of Arachnos is fine as a default path, but there should be alternate paths that give the player a strong and abiding illusion of making their own way IN ADDITION to all of that.
Let me take over an abandoned warehouse, turn it into a base, steal shipments of high tech supplies, intimidate a fence into working with me, research a super weapon...and let me do all that by choosing among various options/Contacts. With my next character, let me take over a cave system for my base, research and steal an ancient tome from a powerful magician, summon up a vile entity to demand its' servitude... |
I'd settle for SG bases, personally, if the editor wasn't terribad and requiring hours upon hours of work for little benefit, and if there were any decent items to use in there. Personally, when it comes to base building, I'd pick something with less micromanagement and fine-tuning and more something general like costume creation. The less it resembles 3D editing programme, the better.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While it's obviously true that some people just want to be heroes and some just like playing villains, there are also a certain subset of people who like to play both heroes and villains, but ONLY a certain type of heroes and ONLY a certain type of villains. Expanding villain-side to cater better to more types of villains - specifically those with a shred of dignity - would actually make the game more appealing to a broader audience.|
Originally Posted by NuclearToast
This is my perception, as well. Yes, I know some people really like redside, and I don't have an issue with that. But I don't. My one and only villain, created on day one of release, is only level 41 after all this time.
--NT |
In a broader sense, making City of Villains NOT be a cautionary tale about how evil is bad and you're a bad person for playing it would help, as well.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I should also point out i was in the very first wave of beta, so yeah, i've been red side awhile now.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
More like 6. CoV launched in September of 2005, I think, and it's September of 2011 now.
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Check out my "Rule Britannia" series if you feel like something different. The arcs are #19599, #20575, #23977, #134775, #134923 and #144543. The series is complete, but spinoffs are in the works.
The one and only huge problem with redside is trying to form a team and being completely unable to even in primetime because of lack of players on redside.
!!!This needs fixing!!!
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Funny, i said the same thing earlier and it was seemingly overlooked. Whatever. We're on the same page anyway. We definitely need an alternative to climbing the Arachnos ladder. With the new features introduced in Going Rogue, they could do a branching storyline for villains. Your actions could remove contacts from your game and open new ones. |
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Rising through the ranks of Arachnos is fine as a default path, but there should be alternate paths that give the player a strong and abiding illusion of making their own way IN ADDITION to all of that.
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Example: You approach an arms dealer for hardware, but he has a rival he needs eliminating. You can help this contact, and in turn further your own goals, or make a choice mid arc to betray him and go with his rival instead. Ten or so levels later, the up and coming criminal organization that was being supplied by the dead dealer track you down for payback. This new contact (right hand man of The Boss, or whatever) you meet in person once for a warning, then he disappears and all future interactions are through the cell phone. Some missions you're defending your turf, others, you're taking the fight to this rival guild. That sort of thing.
As Sam and i have mentioned, the whole "City of Villains" was a bad idea from the start. With the new alignment system blurring the lines, perhaps it's time we took the walls down completely. Villains can now choose to start in the Isles and work for Recluse, or start a life of crime in Paragon instead. Open up villain contacts in Paragon and hero contacts in the Isles. Maybe even throw in a voluntary open world PvP system, so we can have heroes and villains slugging it out on the streets of King's Row or Perez Park or something. I stress the word voluntary though.
At any rate, with the game going Free to Play, they really need to fix red side, or else most of these newcomers are going to eventually flock to blue side. That'll really make red side feel like a ghost town.
Check out my "Rule Britannia" series if you feel like something different. The arcs are #19599, #20575, #23977, #134775, #134923 and #144543. The series is complete, but spinoffs are in the works.
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Um...at least in Virtue you can find teams red side pretty much at any time, you just have to know where to look.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
The one and only huge problem with redside is trying to form a team and being completely unable to even in primetime because of lack of players on redside.
!!!This needs fixing!!! |
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I can pretty much form a team redside whenever I want on Virtue or Justice. And I rarely play on US prime time.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
The one and only huge problem with redside is trying to form a team and being completely unable to even in primetime because of lack of players on redside.
!!!This needs fixing!!! |
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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In a way though, I kind of wish they'd try. Not actual players of course, but NPC hero groups. Like heroes fight to keep Paragon basically in the hands of good, villains could fight to keep the Rogue Isles not. If that's what they want anyway; they may not care about Arachnos but they may wish to keep the area as lawless as they can.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Indeed, it did not have to be a city of villains and villains, but Arachnos does serve an additional purpose you kind of passed over.
As a recognized sovereign power, it also gives a reason why the heroes don't just wander over from Paragon en masse and clean up the place. |
Now, we do fight some of these forces, but it's more or less just Longbow. Yeah, there are groups like the Legacy Chain, but those groups seem to be too little in number and are probably underused.
Now, one thing I'd like to see is not to have all Arachnos con as enemies. Porting over the tech from Praetoria might be nice here. One of the benefits of being a villain in a City of Villains is that you shouldn't be hunted by EVERYONE. Home turf, safe haven and all that.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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See, something must be very wrong here.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
The one and only huge problem with redside is trying to form a team and being completely unable to even in primetime because of lack of players on redside.
!!!This needs fixing!!! |
Because I'm on Union, which is statistically less likely to have as many players as the American servers (possibly).
I can play at fairly late times, not even main prime-time...and I have NO problem finding teams.
Use channels. Bully some friends into playing the game. Are you just expecting to log on and instantly get an invite? If so, 'You're Doing It Wrong.'
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I thought I'd weigh in, as a new player (returning after 4 years, but same thing). Myself (and the 4 people I brought into CoH w/ me) all started off blue-side. After a few days, we decided to bring up some Vils and "go red," as it were.
After spending equal time on both sides we unanimously agreed that red was, in our opinion, better. As far as leveling through mishes goes (and only the first 20-30 levels), we've had way more fun red-side. We all feel like the progression (character AND story) is way smoother on red. Missions flow better, the contacts are better, the end-of-mission rewards are much more satisfying.
The "villainous" plots are more watered-down than a Disney/Pixar flick, but oh well. We have had way more fun leveling toons on red.
However, we'll be swapping most (or all) of our reds to blue, as soon as we all pick up GR (probably when i21 releases).
Why? We wanna go where the people are. With the exception of people camping the Black Market, red zones seem post-apocalyptically vacant. There's a tangible emptiness to the city streets. I don't know if the zones are just designed better, so you run into friendly players less, or if they're just that empty. It's eerie as **** though.
Also, somebody mentioned respec TF's earlier this thread. Off-topic by now, but the blue-side one we tried to run (multiple times) was a ******* atrocious mess. We couldn't even get one of the midway mishes to complete, no matter how many times we did it.
If there is one thing to hate about CoH, it's that respec'ing is treated like some kind of goddamned privilege, meant for only the hardiest (or wealthiest) of players.
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Arachnos actually has a double role in the game mechanics - as an organization that's too powerful for Heroes to defeat, it gives Villains a safe area to work in without needing open world PvP - and as an organization that's too powerful for Villains to overhtrow, it allows the devs to avoid the problems that would come with a free-for-all power-grab if there was no dominant group in the Rogue Isles to limit the kind of things Villains could get up to.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
As a recognized sovereign power, it also gives a reason why the heroes don't just wander over from Paragon en masse and clean up the place.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'd be interested to know which Disney/Pixar movie Westin Phipps is the watered-down version of |
Originally Posted by Heroic Fetus
The "villainous" plots are more watered-down than a Disney/Pixar flick, but oh well.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
this, plain and simple.. and there are others like us on every server
mwuahahahahaha
Virtue Server Forever !
Pure White Lightning - Level 50 Electric Brute
Purple Drop - work in progress Axe/Shield brute
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@Blue Lava