A new itrial every issue? How about no?
By
AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2011-06-29 18:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
Your frankly insulting generalization doesn't do anything to actually talk about what people's concerns are, they trivialise them. But I suspect any response I get from you will boil down to 'well, don't you have the entitlement issue', and the point will be moot. I've said my piece regarding your statements and I intend to leave them at that.
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That is kind of what "it doesn't apply to everyone" means. I disagree with your assumption that it applies to no one, obviously, or I wouldn't have written it. You're upset that I wrote something that applies to some people but not all, but say I'm "painting with a broad brush." Weird.
Seeing as the other side seem content with simple declarations, I'll just add my vote:
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^ This
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Originally Posted by Me
Less iTrials, more solo Incarnate arcs plz
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You're right. You aren't seeing the problem here.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
I'm sorry, but I really, really, really do not see the problem here. I understand that some people don't like trials, I really do. I understand that some people who want the rewards quickly find it "grindy," I really do. But it all boils down to a very, very simple concept:
If you want x, you must do y. |
Nobody is saying they want rewards "quickly". What they're saying is they want a reward path that doesn't involve standing around 60+% of the time doing NOTHING simply to grind raids over and over and over again.
Right now the difference in speed between people who mish regularly is those who raid their brains out is not "slow vs fast". It's not even "glacial vs fast". It's "Brownian motion has stopped vs moderate". We're talking several days (if you raid straight through a session) vs several weeks (if you limit your raiding to one of each per day) vs months/years by converting shards.
And at every turn, we're being bashed in the face with alternate currencies. Why? Because they don't want someone to have all of the rewards on Day 1? Whoops! They have them on Day 2!
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| That's it, end of story. |
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| But that doesn't change the fact that in the here and now, you're stuck with the y we have. This has always been true. No matter how you slice it, no matter how you dice it, always. Either do y, or wait until they make it easier. |
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| Want to get to level 50? You have to first get to level 49. You can do it quickly via lots of teaming, or you can do it slowly via soloing, taking time to read all of the mission text, role-playing and doing various other non-experience-gaining activities. There's no way around it. At some point, you're going to have to buckle down, go out there, and defeat some enemies. You can't get to level 50 just by exploration badge experience. You can't get there by dancing in Pocket D. It's going to require some time and effort on your part. |
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| That's what I feel like when people say stuff that boils down to, "This is so unfair! I'll never be able to get all of this incarnate stuff!" First of all, you're not supposed to. Do you really need every single aura, every single emote, every single costume piece, every single everything? |
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| Second of all, I've said it before and I'll say it again, these are long-term rewards. |
As to the rest of your argument and your comparison to real life. Some people are here to play a game. Not have a second job.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Or waste their time on a failed Keyes. After sitting around.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Nobody is saying they want rewards "quickly". What they're saying is they want a reward path that doesn't involve standing around 60+% of the time doing NOTHING simply to grind raids over and over and over again.
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I fairly certain that much like access to purple recipes and PVP IO's has become easier, obtaining incarnate rewards will become easier in the future.
I'm also certain that the change will not happen fast enough for some people.
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That sounds like more of a problem with fixing the Team Up Teleporter / LFG Queue than needing a solo friendly path. |
Originally Posted by Jetpack
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As for Keyes-- it took days for BAF and LAM to be beaten consistently, and weeks for them to be consistently sped through by the majority of groups. Keyes has been out for 2 and a half days and is on the same track, with some teams failing and others beating it, so some perspective is needed.
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Exactly. Give Keyes a couple of weeks. By then it will be consistently succeeding with a few anomalous errors.
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
That sounds like more of a problem with fixing the Team Up Teleporter / LFG Queue than needing a solo friendly path.
As for Keyes-- it took days for BAF and LAM to be beaten consistently, and weeks for them to be consistently sped through by the majority of groups. Keyes has been out for 2 and a half days and is on the same track, with some teams failing and others beating it, so some perspective is needed. |
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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What he said.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
More iTrials please, kthnxbye.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
More iTrials please, kthnxbye.
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More solo content please, kthnxbye
I'm kool with trials if they don't require a league. Getting sick of all the downtime.
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That says nothing about new, soloable I-content. Anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I not only endorse this point, but say they should expand on it. They should lock access to IOs behind making 2 billion on a character through marketing only. Don't like to play the market? No problem, you don't NEED IOs to play the game. |
Originally Posted by AquaJAWS
What developer is forcing you to run incarnate trials? Did they remove every other costume piece, aura, that everyone has gotten by on for the previous 7 years before them? Are any of them necessary to play the game?
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Lock color customization behind the AE. Get a character from 1-50 by playing nothing but story-based AE arcs (no farms, no exploits) and you unlock it. Don't like playing AE stories? No problem, you don't NEED to color your powers to play the game.
and let's not forget to lock other unnecessary item in the game behind some piece of niche content as well. Something should require playing all the story arcs in Oro to get. Another getting most of the badges or all the accolades, and so on. After all, there is a massive amount of things in this game that you don't NEED to play the game.
NOW does it get through to you and those echoing you that locking non-incarnate rewards behind incarnate content is something that angers people, not entices them.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
That sounds like more of a problem with fixing the Team Up Teleporter / LFG Queue than needing a solo friendly path.
As for Keyes-- it took days for BAF and LAM to be beaten consistently, and weeks for them to be consistently sped through by the majority of groups. Keyes has been out for 2 and a half days and is on the same track, with some teams failing and others beating it, so some perspective is needed. |
It still doesn't address the fact that some people don't want to sit around with their thumbs up their *** for an hour, unable to actually DO anything else, while someone drags a trial together.
I spent nearly 30 minutes waiting on the last couple players in an Apex last night and THAT was painful and unfun. The Apex itself went swimmingly.
This is MY primary complaint about it.
My secondary is that I really don't want to run the trials over and over and over and over and over again, even switching between toons, just to see some progression. PRIMARILY because of the first issue.
THIS is why I'd prefer a viable solo path IN ADDITION to raid content. This way, when I don't feel like dealing with "Hurry up and wait", I can simply dive into a couple missions and progress a bit myself.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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this!
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Originally Posted by gaspard
i'm kool with trials if they don't require a league. getting sick of all the downtime.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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No. Because that would involve thinking about someone besides themselves.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
NOW does it get through to you and those echoing you that locking non-incarnate rewards behind incarnate content is something that angers people, not entices them.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Same here...but it still does not solve the problem that you can't get the rewards any other way. (mostly)|
Originally Posted by Dante
T
'If you don't like them, don't do them' is a common argument I hear and fair enough, I won't. |
Hamidon Enhancements were like this as well, until the Lord Recluse Strike Force and Statesman Task Force gave us alternate ways to get them.
In my opinion, an alternate way to get Incarnate Trial rewards or even a way for a player who solos by choice or circumstance could not come soon enough.
EDIT: fixed spelling
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-anim.php
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Most people do get that badge without reading the thread :/
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Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown
Can I get that badge without actually reading this thread.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
This is the vanguard merit argument all over again. People complained on the forums for weeks (some for months) after the Rikti War Zone revamp. Nothing changed.
No one complains about that anymore.
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Because most of us have the Vanguard pack now.
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Originally Posted by Doughboy
This is the vanguard merit argument all over again. People complained on the forums for weeks (some for months) after the Rikti War Zone revamp. Nothing changed.
No one complains about that anymore. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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If you can imagine not having to wait more than a few minutes to get he trials organised, then I think the whole experience would improve automatically. Standing around once in a while isn't so bad, but that much down time every time you want to do a trial does get wearing.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
this!
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I'm wondering if the devs shouldn't make Pocket D a whole lot bigger, and make it global so that EVERY player, regardless of server meets at the same point.
That would be no small undertaking.. the chat system alone would have to be overhauled..
but it does seem to me to be a way of overcoming this issue. Because there would be liteally dozens, if not more, players wanting to take part in trials pretty much constantly.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
Regarding solo ways to get incarnate content.,... yes.. without question. Maybe rather than aquiring shards as we do now when we solo/team normally, we should get something else that we can CONVERT to shards or threads as we so choose.
Would that do it?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
You know, in all my 31 years, I have never seen a business of any kind where the customers feel so entitled to try and dictate how that business is run.
"We want solo incarnate content! We better get some or.....or....." or what, exactly?
Are you going to signify your displeasure by unsubscribing? Since the game is going Free to Play soon, the devs would be utter fools to not expect to lose some subscriptions to people wanting to play for free. Your canceled subscription because you didn't get what you wanted will have zero effect on anything, and will probably not even be noticed in the general move to free play status by a decent portion of the population.
Basically, at this point, the prospect of losing subscribed players means precisely nothing to the devs, because they know they are going to lose some anyway. You don't offer a free to play option without anticipating the loss of some subscribed players. Threats of ragequitting mean less now than they ever have, and they never meant much in the first place.
I suppose you can keep starting thread after thread after thread complaining about how unfair it is, but you can see what that's accomplishing. The devs know you want it, is it really serving any purpose to keep screaming about it after they've acknowledged that they know you want it?
The devs are NOT going to rush to jump on this issue for you. I can guarantee that. If they did rush to jump on it, it would give the distinct impression that their customers can dictate what they do. Not a good plan for any business. If the devs jump right on this and rush out some solo incarnate content, the forums will positively explode with people pushing their personal agendas, because they will have seen that constant complaining will make the devs do things. The devs probably don't want that happening.
So, you'll probably get your solo incarnate content at some point. But don't hold your breath, the devs won't allow the perception that the players are telling them how to run their game to take hold.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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After reading these forums for so many years, this is pretty much my viewpoint on MMO players in general, not just City players really.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You know, in all my 31 years, I have never seen a business of any kind where the customers feel so entitled to try and dictate how that business is run.
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I have no problem, at all, with more variety being added at some point to the methods of gaining Incarnate power and costumes, etc.
I have worked for a software company for about 12 years now and even our most difficult customers, who pay us thousands of dollars a month, do not have the entitled attitude displayed on these forums by gamers who pay $15/month for an account.
Sure, we have a customer that is so full of his own ego that he thinks the ideas he has floated to us are the only reason our software is as good as it is today, but even he does not have the chutzpah to tell us to stop adding features he can't/won't take advantage of within his business.
While constructive criticism and feedback on all portions of the game is something the devs need to hear, frankly, most of the threads started on this topic sound nothing more than petulant children that have gotten a smaller piece of cake than their siblings, all the while making up unsubstantiated 'facts' to backup the arguments.
Personally, I expect more from adults.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
And the devs will be aware of this kind of MMO player, and how much notice to take of them 
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They'll be replaced by new raid-hungry players giving CoH a try for the first time |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Are you going to signify your displeasure by unsubscribing? Since the game is going Free to Play soon, the devs would be utter fools to not expect to lose some subscriptions to people wanting to play for free. Your canceled subscription because you didn't get what you wanted will have zero effect on anything, and will probably not even be noticed in the general move to free play status by a decent portion of the population.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Any criticism of the reward structure in their eyes is a manifestation of "laziness" or "greed" from people who just want the rewards "immediately" or "without having to work." They perceive this in other players because its how they view the content themselves; as either a test of fortitude and way to pull ahead of other players, or as a test of immunity from "greed", in which one claims all power is relative anyway and people who care for it are "power gamers." The reason for desiring the system to work this way is equal parts entitlement to have their way be the only way and a need to protect their "special" status, since they did, after all, work to get these rewards and don't want that taken away.
If you want to see this psychology at work in other MMOs, look at their crafting systems. You will find an encyclopedia's worth of justifications for the tedium those systems involve that pretty much hinge on the same arguments about "work ethic."
I'm sorry Tex...but what you've just said is as much a generalisation and a perception as what you accuse others of doing in this very thread. Anectodally, I've crafted in games, I've done raiding in games and I've even done PvP, because I never wanted to a) be pig-ignorant in my views about things and b) Suprise surprise, I wanted to.
Not at any point is anyone arguing that people who do Trials shouldn't be rewarded for doing so, it's what the rewards are that are at question. You've taken an extremely broad brush and painted people to one color. I don't see myself as special or wanting special attention; if I want something in the game, I'll go out and get it. I wanted the Roman armor, I ran the ITF to get it. I wanted the Vanguard armor, I ran the Mothership raids til I got them.
But the point remained that the rewards were proportional to the activity and there was an equality of experience. More than one route was open to pursue many of these rewards, and noone was penalised for not doing one or the other. That is the point, not some self-aggrandizing self-entitlement issue.
Your frankly insulting generalization doesn't do anything to actually talk about what people's concerns are, they trivialise them. But I suspect any response I get from you will boil down to 'well, don't you have the entitlement issue', and the point will be moot. I've said my piece regarding your statements and I intend to leave them at that.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse