A new itrial every issue? How about no?

I'm sorry, but I really, really, really do not see the problem here. I understand that some people don't like trials, I really do. I understand that some people who want the rewards quickly find it "grindy," I really do. But it all boils down to a very, very simple concept:

If you want x, you must do y.

That's it, end of story. Maybe someday they'll tweak exactly what y is; in fact, based on history, I can almost guarantee it. But that doesn't change the fact that in the here and now, you're stuck with the y we have. This has always been true. No matter how you slice it, no matter how you dice it, always. Either do y, or wait until they make it easier.

Want to get to level 50? You have to first get to level 49. You can do it quickly via lots of teaming, or you can do it slowly via soloing, taking time to read all of the mission text, role-playing and doing various other non-experience-gaining activities. There's no way around it. At some point, you're going to have to buckle down, go out there, and defeat some enemies. You can't get to level 50 just by exploration badge experience. You can't get there by dancing in Pocket D. It's going to require some time and effort on your part.

About the best analogy I can think of are purple recipes. Some people hate dealing with the market. Seriously, they despise it. Do you have any idea how long it would take to get a character completely kitted out with purple recipes without engaging in some marketeering? I'm not even sure it's possible, it's that long. Sure, you can do it through A-merits, but my god, man, even that would take forever. Assuming you collect them as quickly as possible, one every two to three days, it takes, what, 30 or 35 of them to get just one specific purple recipe? So that would be two to three month's worth of work just to get one recipe. Now multiply that by 30 or so powers and umpteen slots, if you've made up your mind that you're never going to use the market, it would probably take you decades to kit out one single character.

That's what I feel like when people say stuff that boils down to, "This is so unfair! I'll never be able to get all of this incarnate stuff!" First of all, you're not supposed to. Do you really need every single aura, every single emote, every single costume piece, every single everything? That's like saying, "I have to have all of my characters completely kitted out with all purples!" Sure, you can do it, but that was never the intention of putting this stuff out there. You're supposed to figure out the stuff you really want and get it quickly. Then figure out the stuff that would be kind of cool, and collect it over the course of several weeks. In the coming months, you'll still be collecting stuff just because you've got the merits and it's silly to let them sit there collecting dust, and some day, you'll find that you've pretty much got it all.

Second of all, I've said it before and I'll say it again, these are long-term rewards. That means that you're not going to have all of the cool stuff today. You're not going to have it all tomorrow. Issue 21 is still probably a few months out, and Issue 22 will probably be four to six months after that. If you had it all today, what would you do tomorrow? People really used to vehemently insist that purple rewards were too hard to get and that they would never have a full set. Over the course of time, the hubbub subsided as people figured out that yes, it is indeed possible--nay, likely!--that they actually will be able to obtain these things, given enough time. This is no different.

So instead of thinking, "ZOMG I'll never be able to get everything!!!" and refusing to do trials and coming here and grousing constantly because you're so miserable, the devs are so unfair, everyone must love grinding crap over and over, and talking about how this game has become [insert other game here] and that's not what City of Heroes is about, try this instead.

Pick one thing you like. I suggest an aura or an emote because they're relatively cheap. Now go get it. It's not that hard; it won't take you more than a night or two max. That wasn't so hard, now, was it? Stop thinking so much about what your character doesn't have and focus on what he or she does have, and what he or she wants next.

Do people do this in real life? Holy crap, if I want to go skiing, I'm going to have to request vacation from work, gas up the car, buy some food for the road trip, save up some money for a hotel or lodge, pack a suitcase, drive there, find a place to stay, buy or rent ski supplies, maybe take some lessons to keep from busting my butt, and--oh, crap, I just realized, it's summer! Skiing is time-gated and I have to wait another four to six months before I can go or else spend insane amounts of money to fly to South America or something! This is so unfair, I'm NEVER going to go skiing again, EVER! Skiing SUCKS! People who like skiing must just really like grinding away at menial tasks like driving and scheduling stuff! I'm entitled to some alternate path to skiing besides doing all that work!

Yeesh.

Incidentally, one of the things I'm dreading about the launch of City of Heroes: Freedom is this entitlement talk. I can almost guarantee you that when we see how much stuff is in the store and what the microtransaction costs are for all of that stuff combined, will everyone be amazed at the sheer volume of new stuff that we now have access to? Some people will, thank goodness. But others, oh hell no, we're going to see the whining start.

"ZOMG, it's going to cost me a hundred bucks to get it all! This is insane! It's the monocle debacle all over again! It's so unfair, the devs don't care about us, all of this stuff used to be free, yada yada yada!" Um, no, it's not. You're not supposed to get it all. Sure, you can, and there will probably be some people that do. Instead of focusing on how much more stuff they're getting than ever before, how much amazing content and how flexible their choices are, there will be people who can't get past the stuff that they don't have, even if it's stuff they'll never use, even if it's stuff that, if it had never been released, they wouldn't have given a second thought about.

I foresee me posting many links to this guy. Everything is so amazing now, yet some people are just determined to not be happy.

There is absolutely no way every single player is going to be pleased with every single addition to the game.

They have never said they will never introduce solo/small team content that allows you to progress toward enhancing your incarnate power. They have never said they won't ever put lower level league trials that aren't level 50.

For YEARS the forums were crawling with suggestions about adding end game content or upping the level cap to above 50. People have been wanting new and different ways to advance further, so they come up with the incarnate system.

Then after 2 trials come out everyone cries about wanting more rewards for doing them, which they just gave us and now everyone is complaining about wanting those particular rewards for free. If every thing in the game worth having was free, the game would get dull pretty fast? Sometimes you have to work to earn things.

Also, gating purely cosmetic things behind completing tasks in the game is not new (roman costumes, vanguard until recently, numerous other costume pieces, emotes, etc). The only possible new concept they are introducing with this is that the accention pieces that are level 50 only, but the roman costumes and vanguard costumes, without the 7 year pack of course, are level 35 and up, which is really the same concept, just a lower level. The new pieces even unlock account wide instead of per character like nearly all of the gated things before.

They also aren't going to announce any future content until they are SURE that it is definitely going to come out in the somewhat near future. No matter how well you plan, in software design it only takes one thing to spin that completely off course and then suddenly everyone is complaining that something specific is not here when they said it would be.

Whether the content is a league trial, a normal task force, a story arc, whatever, it ALL takes time to develop. We've had level 50 task forces for years. We've had level 50 story arcs. They chose to develop and expand something different that we didn't have before giving us more of the stuff we had to grind from level 1 to 50 in. They are putting more of them in so there's some variety in that realm rather than just only having the 2-3 trials to grind that everyone seems to keep complaining about. BUT it takes time to develop if its going to be any good.

As far as the incarnates are overshadowing the non...don't form ITFs with them, which you can do. Also, any of the incarnates can very easily unslot their incarnate powers and be right back down to 50, and I'm sure some would looking for a challenge. All...no...but some will. Others, well obviously aren't looking to do the same as you. It would be like teaming with a speed run team then complaining that they aren't killing everything.

Do I personally wish all of the new costume pieces were free and not gated, of course, who doesn't want new stuff for free! But I completely get why they aren't and am fine with spending my time earning them, especially since they are account wide unlocks once you do (after claiming the certification, which I don't like, but that's another issue). There's still the millions of other non-gated possible costume combos out there to use.

I want more trials. One or more per issue would be GREAT! More new challenging content coming every few months makes me want to subscribe to the game more. But I also want to see solo stuff. More tip missions. New high level task forces. New mid level league trials. New story arcs. And they likely will if you give them time. We've had 2 issues who had a big focus of the end game content, but we also got a couple new mid level task forces and many many other things that aren't incarnate specific. To say they are ONLY focusing on the incarnate stuff is unfair. We know we're getting monthly signature story arcs soon, a new level 20ish zone that looks quite cool, a new powerset (maybe more), new costumes, new trail auras, new begin-game content, PLUS a new trial. This is all announced and being worked on, plus a ton of stuff we haven't heard of yet.

I'm afraid it's not that cut and dry Tony...

To wit:
You love playing COH, doesn't matter what your doing you just love playing. Then one day the Dev's release a new issue that forces you to hear Hansen's MmmBop NONSTOP while you play. You can't mute it either, if the sound isn't coming through your speakers the game shuts off.

Now how many weeks would you continue to enjoy playing? How many days of that could you take? Probably not much. Very quickly the game would go from being enjoyable to 'why bother torturing myself'

Now this is an extreme example to be sure but it takes extremes to get the point across sometimes.

For some players, iTrials represent a seachange in the direction of this game. For some players the fact that they now have no choice but farm the hell out of a handful of trials is as annoying as my example. Literally.

Just saying 'Suck it up' because you have to do Y to get X is a disservice at best. While true in concept it slyly dodges the real issue at hand. Should we remain loyal or cut our losses?
That's the main question bringing us these threads daily.

I'm saying all this from the perspective of someone who doesn't play 50's and could care less about Endgame. Never have, never will. However, I keep playing because of Alts. It was really easy for me to decide not to bother with the iTrials once I realized the only place I'd really need those abilities is on more trials. However, they then decided to start locking interesting new tech (path auras) behind this system in an effort to get more players grinding.

This is having the opposite effect though. As the ones that are okay running trials would have kept doing them without the added perks while the players those perks where designed for feel slighted.

It doesn't matter if it's right to feel that way. All that matters is that paying customers are feeling punished.

This issue isn't going to go away before Freedom hits. IF we do get an influx of new players then perhaps it will become muted for a few months. Eventually though we'll have a second round of these threads when all the new blood gets to 50.

So you saying "Deal with it" expecting that to be the magic answer is akin to forcing you to listen to Spice girls at full volume while playing, sure you can deal with it, but how long will you?

This isn't about entitlement or wanting stuff for free. In the end it boils down to fun. If players aren't having fun they'll come here to find out if they can ever expect to start having fun again. If the only answers they get from us boil down to 'Suck it up' or 'You don't have to be an Incarnate' they won't become ViP's.

Which in the end is what we all want. So to that end I say this. Players are going to continue to bring this up. Cluttering up the threads with pointing out how stupid they are only serves to keep the subject fresh.

From now on if you (plural for anyone bothered by this topic) see one of these types of posts, move on. Don't bother to make your case. Because it's all been said before by both sides. Let the thread die quickly. They'll get a handful of posters agreeing with them and then it will vanish from the front page since it's not a constant back and forth PvP match.

I finally crafted ThisThread Tier 2. Few more view points for Tier 3. I hope I can respec into a new Thread T4 when the next one comes out.

It probably won't matter to anyone, but I agree entirely with the OP (AmazingMoo). Which I don't always do. Of course, people will just continue to kthanksbye and etc. Pity.

I feel ya, Moo, I feel ya.

I've decided to just get my +1 level shifts on a few 50s, and pretend the new incarnate stuff and gated rewards don't exist.

Lewis

new costume bits w/ i21 that aren't locked behind anything besides a release date and I'm unsure if those are new auras or incarnate ones...haven't looked at all of them

as far as making a character goes...majority of mine suffer from same-face syndrome, I just really don't like 98% of the faces.

More trials means more variety means less repetition and less farming of trials.

More trials, please.

I know its a rather clunky comparison, but I do enjoy iTrials in the same way I liked the movie Sucker Punch. You have lots of plot, arcs, taskforces and "living" in Paragon City etc, then every so often, like the massively over the top action fest "dances" of Sucker Punch you have trials.

Again drawing comparisons, I would like to see the trials simplified somewhat, the current Keyes Island trial is vastly overcomplicated with the amount of things going on at once, but the variety thus far has been great.

These arguments have been had before but for what it's worth, I agree with the OP. I find the trials a casual distraction but they leave me with a distinct 'that's it?' feeling at the end. For a game that's been awaiting an endgame for many years, I can't help but feel underwhelmed that our version of endgame amounts to a boss fight from the end of a TF.

Cementing that feeling is the locking of non-Incarnate emotes, costume pieces and auras behind the trials along with the inf fee on converting shards should you dare to not run trials. That kind of action just puts me off them even more.

I've always been a lousy farmer. It's dull and not much fun to me. So introducing an endgame that is basically Dev endorsed farming was always the worst possible option as far as I'm concerned. But then the introduction of AE proved that a lot of players are happy to run the same map over and over again for fat loot. So it looks like Paragon are simply developing content for those types of players. And that's a bit of a shame really.

'If you don't like them, don't do them' is a common argument I hear and fair enough, I won't. If these powers are so vital to running trials then I have no need for them. On one condition: that no Incarnate powers work outside of the trials. Because the use of those powers in high level content has now made level 50 TFs laughable. If they're necessary in order to stand up to the difficulty of trials, then lock them out of regular level 50 content as they're not needed.

But mostly, I feel disappointment. For a game that has been incredibly inclusive to all kinds of playstyles, to devote the endgame to nothing but raids is a big let down in my opinion. Although solo/small team content might be coming, it appears to be an afterthought at best. Which concerns me as it makes me question whether Paragon Studios really know their audience that well. But for now, when I look at the endgame as it stands, I just have to ask, "Is this really the best you could come up with?"

Here's hoping for future improvements.