A new itrial every issue? How about no?
By
AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2011-06-29 18:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It's not fair for my LVL 50 to have more powers via flashbacking than an actual LVL 11 character when I run Posi for the WST on their team. I never use them because they might feel insulted, flaunting my LVL 50-ness all over the place. I also make sure to take out all of the enhancement sets I've slotted for my character because it's not fair that I can get more enhancement value out of them per slot than the lower-level players might.
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Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
Accordingly, when I group with Mrs. Moo or any other 50 who doesn't have any incarnate powers, I don't like to use mine, either. It's not fair to them. It's not very fair to me to not use my stuff, but it's more unfair to them.
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61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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Methinks you missed the part where the only costume pieces tied to it are Incarnate costume pieces. The word "All" is a bit hyperbolic.
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Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
You seem to be missing the part where non-incarnate content is tied to it... like all the costume pieces.
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It sounds as if you're mocking the situation. You really shouldn't. It has the potential to really make life difficult, especially when F2P players start wanting to group with VIP players.|
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
It's not fair for my LVL 50 to have more powers via flashbacking than an actual LVL 11 character when I run Posi for the WST on their team. I never use them because they might feel insulted, flaunting my LVL 50-ness all over the place. I also make sure to take out all of the enhancement sets I've slotted for my character because it's not fair that I can get more enhancement value out of them per slot than the lower-level players might.
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A level 50 who runs Positron has his enhancement values slashed dramatically. His powers are curtailed dramatically. He does not get to use his incarnate powers. He's certainly more powerful than the level 11s, but the level 11s can still contribute to the taskforce's success. It's not terribly unfair to a level 11.
A level 51 with all four thread-based incarnate powers starts being able to solo great swaths of the level 50 taskforces, Arch-villains and all. If you mix, say, an ITF with some 51+ players and some 49s, the 49s really don't get much opportunity to contribute to the TF's success any more. They could doorsit and the 300 romans would be slaughtered just as fast and Nictus-powered Romulus would go down just as fast.
That is indeed unfair to the 49s. It makes them feel like they're being powerlevelled. It's boring and unfun. It contributes to the game's subscriber churn and will eventually cause a player to move on to more interesting subjects.
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2 sets (technically 1 since the other set just has glowie auras attached) is not a lot and I dare say, the set as a whole isn't all that impressive to me, I'll use a few pieces...but never the whole set :x|
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
You seem to be missing the part where non-incarnate content is tied to it... like all the costume pieces. Those are a major draw for the game and when they start being hidden behind incarnate content, both existing and prospective players are turned off.
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I take it you don't like the idea of special weapons being locked behind defeating x-amount of enemies either?
How about yes!
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Fair enough. I added 'included with the new issue'. I thought it stood with the thread's subject matter.|
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown
Methinks you missed the part where the only costume pieces tied to it are Incarnate costume pieces. The word "All" is a bit hyperbolic.
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When new issues go by without new costume pieces available to non-50 players, they're being done a disservice. They pay the same 15$ a month we do.
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Like higher level Incarnate Trials? |
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
That is indeed unfair to the 49s. It makes them feel like they're being powerlevelled. It's boring and unfun. It contributes to the game's subscriber churn and will eventually cause a player to move on to more interesting subjects.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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A: There is no evidence that will be the case with every new issue. They will have some for Incarnate trials only, but see point B for what I think will be the majority of new costume parts.|
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
Fair enough. I added 'included with the new issue'. I thought it stood with the thread's subject matter.
When new issues go by without new costume pieces available to non-50 players, they're being done a disservice. They pay the same 15$ a month we do. |
B: As of Issue 21 subscribers and non-subscribers will have a plethora of costume options unlockable for cash (paragon point) purchase. It's a safe bet they plan on releasing new ones to the store on a regular basis. Revenue stream.
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All the trail auras and costume change emotes are locked behind Empyrean merits. You can't even purchase them with Astrals.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
2 sets (technically 1 since the other set just has glowie auras attached) is not a lot and I dare say, the set as a whole isn't all that impressive to me, I'll use a few pieces...but never the whole set :x
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| I take it you don't like the idea of special weapons being locked behind defeating x-amount of enemies either? |
That was not a good situations, and we had to wait a LONG time for it to be fixed.
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| That is indeed unfair to the 49s. |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Like higher level Incarnate Trials?
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No other superhero MMOs around |
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
Like a different F2P game.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I like how you are just straight ignoring the notion of the Paragon Store offering these items. What if the Store has items exclusive to the store... how many people would complain that they shouldn't have to "pay" for costumes? What about the "vet rewards" that you can buy straight out of the Store... kinda unfair to those that earned them with actual subscription time.
"You sir, have never been in a hammer fight, that much is clear."
-Blast_Chamber
*yeah, I quoted myself.
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I buy the Super Boostesr. If these items are indeed available from the store, I will rejoice.|
Originally Posted by Blast_Chamber
I like how you are just straight ignoring the notion of the Paragon Store offering these items. What if the Store has items exclusive to the store... how many people would complain that they shouldn't have to "pay" for costumes? What about the "vet rewards" that you can buy straight out of the Store... kinda unfair to those that earned them with actual subscription time.
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Even if we are TOLD they will be available in the store, that'd be awesome. I'll buy 'em for Mrs. Moo AS SOON AS THEY ARE AVAILABLE.
Cash money. Right here. Come and take it, NCSoft!
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To be very honest, all of the Incarnates I know that could potentially do this were already at that level of power before I19. As far as I've been aware, all of the Incarnates I've met that couldn't before I19 still can't (barring now-fixed Pyronic madness).|
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
A level 51 with all four thread-based incarnate powers starts being able to solo great swaths of the level 50 taskforces, Arch-villains and all. If you mix, say, an ITF with some 51+ players and some 49s, the 49s really don't get much opportunity to contribute to the TF's success any more. They could doorsit and the 300 romans would be slaughtered just as fast and Nictus-powered Romulus would go down just as fast.
That is indeed unfair to the 49s. It makes them feel like they're being powerlevelled. It's boring and unfun. It contributes to the game's subscriber churn and will eventually cause a player to move on to more interesting subjects. |
The issue of non-Incarnates feeling shorted on their efforts by Incarnates is a phenomenon I have only heard about on the boards, not something I've seen or experienced on my own characters ingame. I have never seen this discussion occur on any global channel I listen to, which includes both main server channels on my main server and the MA Arc Finder channel.
I cannot believe that this is or will be the major issue that you claim it to be.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
In related news, I didn't actually get to play any CoH this evening - instead, I logged on to each server and used my hoarded Empyreans and Astrals to unlock every single new costume part, aura and emote - and still had some merits left over - which I'll hoard for potential future unlocks 
But now that I have all the rewards, I guess I can stop playing the Trials, as there's surely no reason to do them for anything other than the leet lewt?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
The simple argument, and I agree with the OP, is this: the day you lock content and rewards behind any system and provide no alternatives, you will inevitably be doing a disservice to those players who cannot or will not do that content.
To say that the content is optional is a fallacy; the rewards as they stand quite clearly stand behind an artificial barrier of content for reward, and what I feel is a disproportional reward at that. The notion that the carrot on this stick is worth at most estimates two or three months of outright grinding is an utter fallacy also.
In the case of PvP, I have always accepted the notion that gear or abilities or purple enhancements, call them what you will, is an acceptable level of content for reward because the rewards visibly and demonstratively are of a benefit to that player doing that content.
The same cannot be said of cosmetic rewards, the most expensive of which is, to paraphrase Positron, to show other people how much effort and great you are at Trials.
This is expressly going against some of the core precepts of this game which have had at its heart an equality of experience regardless of playstyle, build or frequency. There are already posts in this thread and others almost being derogatory and saying effectively 'well, buzz off then. We don't want you in our part of the game.' That's a segregation and elitism that shouldn't exist in any game, let alone this one. I sincerely hope that players and developers alike give some serious thought to the equality of game experience, because it's precisely the sort of thing that if left unchecked will fracture a playerbase.
And I frankly don't want to see a necessity for a forum just dedicated to Trials, because that would just underscore how divisive it could become.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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If they want to bring more trials, great. But I'd like other incarnate content out there for people who have better things to do than sit around for an hour with their thumb up their *** while the league captain gets enough players together to play a 30 minute trial.|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
I say bring us more iTrials on each issue. I love them and it's been a long time coming for us to get some true end game content. Regular Task Forces and Strike Forces are not end game content, but the iTrials seem to be filling that void that we've been asking for.
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Right now, the only solo content for Incarnates (which is about personal progression) is the Alpha unlock.
The Tin Mage and Apex have been reworked so that they award threads or Astrals.
And the conversion rate of Shards to threads is dreadfully slow (though no longer as punitive as it once was).
The fact that a game of the breadth that CoH has is now funneled down into a single raiding path for reasonably paced progression is just shameful, and I hope the devs attempt to work on SOMETHING that'll allow reasonable progression times for solo or single team players.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
It'd be nice if we had something with a different theme. How about something new and not Praetorian. Also maybe think about the mechanics of the trials a bit more. The first two were decent but the Keyes one is kinda meh.
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You don't "need" to level beyond L1 to play the game either. You can go into your settings in the tutorial and shut off XP earnings. XP earning in this game is entirely optional as well.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's optional content - no one needs to play it - not playing it doesn't affect the 1-50 part of the game at all.
If you're not interested in the Trials, then you don't really need any of the Incarnate powers, as they're designed mostly for the Trials - it's a self-contained mini-game, like the market, or bagdes, or PvP. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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^^^|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
More iTrials please, kthnxbye.
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Just had to do that one more time.
These kinds of threads are becoming a grind to read.
<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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Why cancel your account over the fact that Ms Moo feels like she'll never have a 50? She wants a 50? As Picard is so fond of saying, "Make it so." She needs your help.|
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
That would be nice.
At this point, I'd take a bone like, 'Well, these costume pieces are incarnate-only now, but will be available in a booster on x date.' I hated it when I dropped my merits on them and then Mrs. Moo had no interest in them because she'd never be able to have them on her characters. That hurt. I very nearly cancelled at that point. |
Anyone with even a few friends who know what they're doing can PL/exemp friends to 50 in a matter of days - or maybe even one day. A few ITFs, a few farms and she's good. She can use Ascension armor. She can run trials, which like them are not are quite lucrative.
I can here you saying "I HATE FARMING!" from over here, and this is a valid point. Farming is boring as hell. No one will deny it. That's why you dont do it all the time, you do it to enable a certain task - like getting the other half her first 50, so she and you can have fun on a level playing-field.
And I DO want a new Trial every issue. What I also want are non-trial ways to get the salvage you need. I like trials. I just think we need more than two, and a new one that is so broken that people are not wanting to run it. [Saw this sentiment on two servers this evening.] Now that ain't cool.
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That will come once we've defeated Tyrant and the loyalists.
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
It'd be nice if we had something with a different theme. How about something new and not Praetorian.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Then why read them?
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
^^^
Just had to do that one more time. These kinds of threads are becoming a grind to read. |
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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To progress my Forumness.
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Originally Posted by Tyger
Then why read them?
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<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
If you're not interested in the Trials, then you don't really need any of the Incarnate powers, as they're designed mostly for the Trials - it's a self-contained mini-game, like the market, or bagdes, or PvP.
For players who don't care about powering up and being god-like, and simply want to fly around town being heroic looking like a superhero and having a superheroic identity, they're are ABSOLUTELY suddenly FORCED into content they don't want to do.
The way it's set up now, the content has been made non-optional. You're LOCKED OUT of important game options if you don't do it. If you want to make a new character...a new level 1 character who's look and identity is based upon one of the new costume items, you CANNOT do so without farming the incarnate trials.