A new itrial every issue? How about no?

Oh please...

This is merely feedback. Nobody's saying "do this OR ELSE".

Please stop trying to strawman.

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Well, I stopped reading your post after this sentence.

You must have never been a manager of a decent sized company. Customers and clients will gladly tell you how to run your business without you even soliciting their opinions. Perhaps you just live in a bubble or something.

And feedback is not the same as a 'demand.' Please understand the difference.

It doesn't sound like feedback to me.

It very much has the tone of being DEMANDS.

Feedback is saying "Hey, I don't really like how this works. Any chance you can look at it?"

What I'm seeing lately has the tone of "GIVE US WHAT WE WANT! GIVE US WHAT WE WANT! GIVE US WHAT WE WANT!" And it is largely the same group of people saying it.

When the same people use different words to say the same thing over and over again, it ceases to be feedback and starts to become a demand.

It very much seems to me like a lot of people making these demands are of the opinion that "listening to the players" means "do whatever the players say", and when the devs don't jump at their command it means they aren't listening.

There is nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, we can do to convince the devs to do something they don't want to do. And there is nothing we can do to make them do anything any faster than they are.

They will do things when they are damn good and ready to do them, and NO amount of "feedback" will convince them to do it once second sooner.

Which really makes all this complaining, going on across a dozen different threads, pretty much completely pointless. The devs are very well aware of what some of the players want. Continuing to complain, and being rude to anyone who dares to disagree with your complaint is not going to make it happen even one second faster.

It'll happen when it happens, is it REALLY necessary to beat the issue to death and then continue beating it long after it's decomposed? Or do you think that because it didn't happen the day you said it, it means the devs aren't listening.

By the way, has anyone thought about what those "signature story arcs" we heard about actually ARE? It is entirely possible that those story arcs are the solo Incarnate content that the game is apparently broken for not having yet.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

And how many companies actually do what the customers say when they are told how to run their business?

You can tell them what to do all day long, they are under no obligation to listen to you.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

The best companies take the best mix of customer ideas while still keeping a strong focus on what their goals are.

Paragon Studios thus far has been good about that.

We've made suggestions on how to expand the Incarnate system without needing to put epic amounts of man hours creating a solo or small themes path.

They're all over the forums since GR was released.

hint: take a look at the alpha slot, Notice of the Well being able to be converted to threads, and the difficulty slider.

The arguments stopped long before the vanguard pack existed.

Anyway, carry on.

If you're not interested in the issue, don't post on it. Or write that you think everything is ok. All you are doing is attacking. You are just as demanding as the people you accuse of screaming, only your message is for people to shut up.

We don'tneed whining. But we also don't need the stalwart defenders of the status quo to go into caniptions because someone doesn't like part of their favorite game.

And 99% of them are bad

The few that aren't will probably get implemented at some point.

Yeah, the devs do take a look at good ideas (and occasionally bad ideas) from the playerbase, but they ignore the vast majority of them because well... They're kind of crappy.

Who cares. That's not what I was referring to. Many companies consider customer feedback to be on of their top priorities.

Companies that fail as costumer service will fail completely.

Duh, but not listening to your customers is a great way to go out of business. Now, don't twist my words and think 'listening to customers' = doing everything they say.

Hate to tell you this, but it's always been this way. Generally anyone sidekicked beyond 5 levels isn't contributing a whole lot to the success of the group, most of the time. Sure, every little bit helps, but sidekicks are just that, sidekicks.

Don't hate on incarnate powers for making that difference more obvious.

Then you are welcome to quit bumping these multiple threads as you do your self-appointed forum defender schtick.

Neither did he. He said content, it was very clear.

I'm pretty sure his point was, if the devs are working on both new content and iTrials, the OP has not much to complain about, and I agree.

The assertion that unless it's the Weekly or an iTrial it doesn't get run is frankly hogwash. That's the underpinning of most of the original post and it's patently untrue.

Want soloable incarnate level stuff? Great. Get in line, but don't be yet another person trying to say the whole game is going to hell in a handbasket because people who haven't had much to do with their 50s for the last 7 years are having fun giving them an airing for a few months.

I don't find it very convincing when someone tells one group of people to stop playing victim, then pulls out the "you think you've got it bad?--well let me tell you who the real victims here are" line. A little less melodrama with your asking other people to drop the melodrama please. As ridiculous as you think people who are unhappy look, you look ten times worse duking it out with them because you are upset that they are upset.

Honestly I don't give a damn about "winning" an "Internet Tough Guy" argument. I just want options for how I obtain Incarnate rewards.

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And Trials are heaidng the same way - a few are shouting on the forums, but the majority are just out there playing them - these things always get accepted

False. I've been arguing against Vanguard Merits off and on since their introduction, including after the Vanguard Pack hit.

As you might have noticed, the solo arguer doesn't really make any progress

As you might have noticed, I regard your opinion less than that of the dust that accumulates behind my computer desk.

Stop being so presumptive! You do not know everything about everyone in the game. . Perhaps, 'these things that always get accepted' seem so because so many people who did not accept them, left the game entirely and all that was left that you knew of were the fanbois and conformists.

However, I, for one who pays my monthly fee, will NEVER, EVER do one of those !@#$#@ trials. I totally, absolutely reject them and totally, absolutely resent that they're being tied to Vouchers, Cetifications, etc

Until solo incarnate content comes along, I will be more than happy to get chars to 50, do the Ramiel arc, put them into stasis and then work on getting more to 50, etc. I don't need the rewards. I don't need to have my ego boosted. I don't need the bother Trials cause to my brain and machine. I am happy just playing the game in a very comfortable, casual, relaxed manner and nothing will change that.

If I cannot have access to everything, that is fine by me. Solo play already means sacrifising many badges and other perks. I'm Ok with that. I would love to advance my level 50's further into the Incarnate world but, like everything else I do in this game, it will be via the means I am most comfortable with or no way at all. Accept that.

She's not. She's basically trolling you for reaction. This is typical Golden Girl behavior. Just ignore it.

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The accumulated dust behind my computer desk is asking why she hasn't been mod-smacked yet.

I'm not implying victimhood. I'm implying prioritization and patience. For a long time it was Either/Or (raiding OR solo friendly) now for the next while, it's going to be a mix of both. I waited patiently and greatly enjoyed the solo friendlier stuff, and I'm enjoying the raids now.

I'm not trying to knock down the people who are unhappy, just trying to get them to put things in perspective. I don't really understand what there is to be unhappy about, when you look at things from an even slightly expanded point of view, that doesn't rely on the obviously false premise that raids are bad and they're the only thing the devs are gonna add from now until the end of time.

I don't hold much stock in any segment of the player population who feels their needs are somehow the most important. I don't even think the people who waited a long time for raids are more important. I just feel that patience and foresight based on hindsight will get you a LOT closer to happiness than getting all mad and bothered about recent additions that aren't your cup of tea.

I don't buy the point that I somehow look worse for responding to overwrought hyperbole with a bit of impatience. People have a right to be bothered, but the price of that right is they need to accept the emotions provoked in others. If they want to have a reasoned and reasonable discussion I'm all for it. If they need to have multiple threads with the same complaints in different words all across the forums, I'm not sure I need to be particularly tolerant of their selfishness.

Sort of like the dev attitude to the demands of Incarnate soloers?