What keeps you away from AE arcs?

I think I burned myself on AE when I was doing the on-air review show. Several months doing nothing in the game BUT AE arcs, some of which were actually quite painful, either by design or lack there-of. It was bad enough that when the show went under, I actually didn't log into the game AT ALL for at least a week.

I burned myself out at one point as well because I would force myself to finish an arc unless I got frustrated or bored to the point of not even wanting to play anymore that night. I had an attitude that I had to give the author a chance, and finish an arc if I was going to rate it.

What has made it fun again has been shedding those attitudes. It's my game time, I don't have to give the author a chance. You can usually tell whether an arc is going to have much or any story to it by what the first contact says (as well as whether the author has better than 5th grade English skills). If it is something like "Skulls robbing bank. Stop them.", then I quit right there.

If the mission passes the first contact test, then you usually only need to get to the first encounter to find out if the author actually thought about the powers to give custom enemies, or just used what he thought was cool. I don't care how good the story is, I'm not fighting a minion group that mezzes me, slows me, and knocks me down so I end up attacking 1 time for every 5 of theirs.

I still don't rate arcs I don't finish, but, I only find myself frustrated with random AE arcs I end up playing about 1 in 5. The fact is, I may end up starting and stopping 3 or 4 arcs before finding one to play through, but given that most dev missions are so full of hunts, fed-ex, and run to a not easily accessible zone, the total time spent finding and playing an arc is far less than standard content.

I also make far more from random bronze rolls (which I get several of after every AE mission arc) than I do from random drops and merit recipe rolls (at least under level 30). The lack of mission complete xp is more than made up for (in terms of xp/time involved) by the lack of time sinks. A dev story arc may reward more xp overall for time invested due to the huge xp reward for completing the entire arc, but given the time it takes me to complete a dev arc, compared to the time to find and complete a decent AE arc, I'm not sure that's even true.

Then again, I'm not that hard to please. I'm not looking for high art or 5-star entertainment. Just a cohesive story that doesn't jar me out of my comic book universe immersion, and something at least as fun as the dev content. That's not a very high bar given that the majority of dev content I'd rate as 3 stars if it were in the AE, which means I wouldn't even be playing this game if I cared that every mission was a masterpiece.

restraining order

We're all bozos on this thread.

Can't sleep. But... I do really agree with this thread and think it needs more attention.

In fact, it should be stickied.

I love stories, I love roleplaying, but I have barely used AE because:

1) BIG. 1. The interface is just so horrible. It's like picking shards of glass out of your skin trying to find anything good in all the boring and plain cheesy/fanfiction-style missions. The rating system is COMPLETELY useless and should not be the focus. Britney spears and eminem are 'popular', too. Give us a way to browse through bio descriptions quicker and easier and make the list of tags used actually viewable as a list to browse through:
http://www.last.fm/forum/5/_/542521/1
— Also there needs to be a web interface for finding stories, to make it much more readable and easy to browse. Link it in with a subforum on here maybe so new stuff gets their own thread made automatically!

2) Need base editor type creation in missions, at the moment all missions are just variants of missions I have seen before just with different text/enemies...
— Not the kind of stuff non-grindy people wanna look at really. A few times is enough...

This is still current and ongoing. Making a new thread when one is already there would be far less useful than using the existing thread with lots of other good posts by others.

Grow up and think before making kneejerk reactions. Just because someone tells you "this is the way it's always been done" doesn't make it RIGHT.

adminaddict.net/forum/general-community-discussion/1-975

Quote:

I really don't understand why some admins get upset over posting in old threads, when it's relevant. The point of a forum is asynchronous communication, right? ______ Michelle, I never understood why people have such a big problem with it.[..] ______ If it adds something useful that's fine[..] ______ Waking up threads that are still relevant does not cause me confusion. [..] Of course one should not wake up threads unless there is a reason. Such as asking a question or new information relevant to the thread. ______ [..] I don't know why someone would get all uppity about it. ______ The regulars (and even admins/mods) on some forums like to give newbs a hard time about resurrecting old threads. But, It's no big deal to me. [..] ______ I think the only people who have problems with this are lousy admins who have lousy staff. If you have mods and staff doing their job, this is of no concern. ______ I don't have a problem with "extreme" thread bumps when the response is worthwhile. ______ It all depends on the thread. If the conversation can be carried on smoothly, then I'm all for reviving old threads. ______ It depends entirely on the members ability to use common sense but I really do not like closed threads for keeping track of some information. Especially the auto lock after 6 months. If the members are planing anything long term like a physical meeting of members 18 months from now and the thread gets closed when it becomes 6 months old it causes much frustration. Or a long term research project where people give updates every few months. ______ If the reply has some relevence I have no issues with it[..] ______ [..]I've seen one or two that closed old threads automatically, but I believe that discourages some additional worthwhile posting. People don't always start a new thread about an old thread, if they can't post in the old thread.

Not everyone has the lack of life required to make a post every day for seven years and keep track of it all... Hell I barely know where my own posts are anymore, I think a lot of the stuff from the UK forums was simply deleted.

The whole point of a forum is that topics, topics of discussion, can be neatly collected up rather than just one big messy chat. When people create new threads for ones that already exist, it just adds to the mess and confusion and means quality stuff gets lost in the sea of everything else. If I was not replying here, I would be making a new thread with the same topic. But I think doing stuff in a way that is more helpful is more important than worrying about the rather inevitable quasi-religious "BUT YOU BROKE THE TABOO."

And yet Smersh's comment is valid. Not because this thread doesn't still contain valid posts. Not because it doesn't make sense to revive old threads instead of create new threads.

Rather because the forum mods tend to be overzealous and have a zero tolerance policy in terms of reviving old threads. I've seen threads that are as recent as two weeks old get revived and have lots of new and interesting posts in them get shut down due to necro posting. I'm sure you consider it a pretty stupid policy and frankly so do I. If an old thread gets a new post that is valid and contributes then there is no reason to kill it. Nonetheless odds are this thread will get locked for necroposting. Fortunately it won't be till Tuesday when the three day weekend is over. What we are supposed to do is create a new thread with a post in the first message linking to the old thread.



But since you already did this and the thread will last till Tuesday I might as well give my reasons for not doing architect missions. Please note, all of these are reasons I quit playing and writing missions. They may no longer be valid but it took so long to address them that I just plain gave up and no longer have the slightest clue where the system currently stands.

1.) Lowered experience unless you use standard groups or make your mobs overpowered. I had a mission where the mobs were much more challenging than standard mobs. And yet because they didn't have all of their powers available and because one mission contained only lieutenants and minions they were worth about 30 percent of the experience than a bunch of Outcasts would have been. When I boosted their power levels to get full experience they were causing multiple team wipes.

2.) Farming exploit missions fill out the top 90 percent of the lists. Every time a farming mission is created that uses an exploit it is eventually discovered and disabled, but it isn't deleted so unless the author deletes it the mission remains in the list with it's 5 star rating.

3.) Supergroups and coalitions voting up members missions even if those missions are nothing more than a small lab filled with Hellions and place marker text.

Let's say somebody told you that there was a huge bookstore that had some great unpublished stories by your favorite authors. But 99 percent of the shelf space was filled with bad fan-fic and slash-fic. And everybody used a pen name so in order to find the good stories you had to actually read the first few pages of each book.

THAT is what AE is like.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If somebody writes a good enough mission that it becomes a devs choice then they should get a special marker for their global.

IE Devs choose a mission as a devs choice. Author gets a marker tagged to their global. Call them X authors. If enough X authors give an AE mission 4 or 5 stars then that person becomes an X author as well. This means that the list of well written missions gets tagged by people who actually know solid mission writing when they see it. And it means that the base of reviewers who have decent taste keeps growing rather than being limited to just a few devs.

That way the general population can continue voting up farms or friends but there will still be a method for locating well written missions other than just devs choice and guest authors.

I really like the blind-bookstore analogy. That is an apt description of the AE.

Have to disagree with the Dev's Choice thing, though. Dev's Choice arcs are, for the most part, pretty bad. Special recognition for Dev's Choice authors would be a bad thing. Especially in light of how rare DCs are these days.

WARNING: I bold names.

As a returning A/E author and supporter of this element of the game (breaks up the monotony)... I would like to state what did push me away for a long time...

1) Band-aid fixes to offset farms, which hindered story-telling tools
2) Authors rarely return the favor of trying their arcs.
3) Authors far too critical and failing to see the effort you've put forth at the point your arc is currently at.
4) The ratings system is far too shallow and only reflects the opinions of those that bother to rate.

But, I'm back in the mix and I'm not letting the negatives getting the best of me.

And I'm accepting arc attempts for what they are with 5 stars until the dev team ever gives us a better ratings system (so many great ideas been put forth on that)... and if anyone plays mine, they're guaranteed a play on theirs and sometimes more. I'll comment on what I would consider changing, but ultimately the choice is up to the author. And I don't expect or want Shakespeare from everyone either. I just want to have a fun, memorable experience outside of the overplayed dev content.

PEACE!

Adding: Rewards are nice and all, but the experience within is what draws me more. I'd play the RWZ missions for half the rewards of (example) Indigo's arc.

The thing that has made this even worse recently is the fact that there's a bug in the AE, a super-restrictive name filter has been applied to the AE making tons of arcs unplayable, or replacing custom mobs with mekmen or hydra because they have a name like "Policeman" "Sentinel" "Blitzkrieg" "Freakshow". So now it's like a big bookstore with many great stories, but some of the books have been banned - but they're still sitting on the shelf, you just can't read them. And some have had pages ripped out of them for using a name like "Victoria".

(and yes, all the names quoted are currently unusable in the AE - see here)

I think mainly its been the Incarnate system for me. Getting 12 characters to tier 4 on Alpha and now working those same 12 to at least tier 3 on all the new powers consumes a lot of time.

That aside I think some of the things already mentioned have soured me to AE a bit..

WAY too many horrible FARM arcs to shuffle through trying to find anything good to play.

Thanks to the "I made it from level 1 - 50 in 3 hours" gang the nerfs to XP etc don't help either. I can run normal content outside the AE building and level much quicker.. Unless I want to run one of those awful farming missions which I DO NOT.

Dev's choice missions aside you mentioned the lack of DROPS and yeah that contributes as well. Hey I can go run an ITF and in an hour pick up shards, a component, tons of INF and a potential Purple drop that I can either slot or sell (for a TON of cash). So what is my incentive for running AE? Less INF and no drops at all? I hate to sound like a Influnece monger but while this game isn't as bad as some that require constant grinding to acquire the "GOOD STUFF" we do still require a good deal of cash to outfit our characters and be capable.

DEV'S Choice?? okay I have a few casual friends that do AE writing and I have run some Dev's choice missions and came away with the overall impression.. "Just exactly who thought THAT was better than what my friend created?" I'm not saying they are all bad but frankly some of the ones I played did not impress me at all.

Let's not forget that Going Rogue also opened up not even one but two whole new worlds to experience and explore. My badger has every Exploration and History badge from the many Paragon City zones, Rogue Isles zones and Praetorian zones. In addition she's gotten the various defeat badges available in them and as of today has completed all but 1 blue side respec trial .. before the day is out she will, once again, have done every trial and TF available in the game.

I'm not trying to bad mouth AE.. I enjoyed creating stories there and running arc created by my friends but all the things I stated above are potential causes to the decline in the number of players heading to the AE buildings. Like many others times changed and the new content simply pulled me away like it did many others.

The lack of purples and shards are something Architects should take note of.

I see MANY more arcs for the 50's range-- and that's not going to be a big part of the audience anymore. The lack of possible purple drops and shards make it an impractical use of time.

I've been running more level 25-40 story focused Architect arc lately. The market for salvage in this range is rather insane, so having a large share of tickets for uncommons and rares is very handy. The sample of stories (that I haven't done)for those ranges is a tad smaller than I'd expected, but there are plenty of good story-focused gems.

As for XP and leveling... I have no issues with the nerfs. I run these stories for variety and story, not for a mad dash to Incarnatedom. I'd be fine with no XP or a kind of "patrol XP" system that limited the amount of XP earned via Architect or many other limitations if the system was still being abused.

None of my friends published stories mostly.

I'm sure the other stories out there are awesome and great, but mostly I use it as a means of story-telling with peers.

There were tons of Dev's Choices in i14 open beta, with multiple Dev's Choices being handed out to the same authors. A few of those were carried over to live. They're horribly dated, in many cases have been messed up by subsequent patches, and don't take into account all the things we've learned about creating good arcs in the last two years, or make use of the positive additions to AE. For one thing, the level ranges are a mess.

Then there were a few Dev's Choices awarded from the official AE contest back in fall of '09. The finalists and winners were poorly publicized, in most cases the winner was not (IMO) the best of the finalists, and the actual winners were barely publicized either.

All the Dev's Choices since then were awarded by Aeon, so if you don't like the same stuff he likes you're SOL. He seems to like gimmicky fluff over actual solid storytelling. Which isn't surprising, since the canon missions in the last few years have also valued gimmicky fluff over solid storytelling. Some of these Dev's Choices are well-executed fluff or use their gimmicks to support a decent story, and they're certainly more polished than the early ones, but after playing through a few of them you start to see a pattern.

Honestly? Nothing.

The wife and I played them before departing in April 2010, and have played some since returning.

Yeah, sometimes it is hard to find a good storyline. Sometimes, we find some really good ones. Heck, we don't like every storyline, mission, villain, or set-up the Devs have created, either.

But we have fun playing through AE, and we'll keep doing them on the side.

I don't play AE all that much, and when it comes to making AE arcs ... I've toyed with it, but never published anything. After seeing how sophisticated Praetorian story arcs are, I've been left wanting that same level of control over mission events in AE. I'd love to have NPCs to interact with, or the ability to have specify exactly what I want to have where.

Heck, I've played so few AE arcs, and mostly only the ones that seem like involving stories, that I'm not even really sure what constitutes AE farming. Though reading through a few pages of this, I do agree that the system needs some updating. Something should really be done to separate the farms from missions that actually try to tell a story, however silly or serious it might be. That'd be the first major step, I think.

The devs probably didn't want AE to turn into a farm, but the majority of MMO players pick the path of least resistance, and focus on efficiency. So, if the farmers are given a way to filter out anything that isn't a farm from the get-go, maybe it will stop them from downvoting anything that isn't a farm.

I'd go ahead and go in-depth with why I don't even bother with AE anymore, but everyone else's reasons pretty much match my own. Horrible UI, horrid rating system, near impossibility to find decent arcs, "dead weight" arcs, etc...

Oh, and let's not forget the curse of the four-starred arc. Everyone else is moving from the stars system to a simple "like/dislike" system, so why not AE?

I believe that we need incentives to rate arcs well. Not highly, but critically. Something like this:

Player x is a critic. He gives arc y 5 stars, with an explanation for why. Player z then comes along and agrees with him. +1 to critic points. Critic points give critics:

1. Get a small number (not very exploitable) of tickets
2. Badges
3. Unlockable slots for stuff


In this way, we won't need to necessarily follow every arc, but follow critics like Venture and others that are mentioned already in this thread. Critics could also tag themselves or be tagged as specific types of critics. Say "farm critic", "story critic", "challenge critic". And missions should be able to be tagged on those parameters as well (instead of the system now).

Secondly, we need a revamp of the search tool. My ideas:

1. Tags. We already have Dev Choice, Hall of Fame, and Guest Artist tags. Add ones based off the purpose of the arcs. Don't necessarily try to fight farms to their death, but please separate them from the rest of the arcs. Other tags would include "AVs", "EBs", and "custom powers".

2. Allow us to exclude certain tags from our search. Like farms.

3. Give all current non-Dev Choice, Hall of Fame, or Guest Artist arcs a tag that says "Work in Progress". This will allow us to simply exclude arcs with that tag from our search. Instant reduction.

4. Perhaps change the rating system to a +/- system rather than the 5-star system. I think seeing -1 (1 vote) is a lot less discouraging than 1 *. With the first, I know the number of + and - ratings, and can make my inferences (1 guy didn't like the arc, but it could still be playable). Also, it would prevent the current phenomenon that prevents any arc without 5 *s from getting played (and lets be honest, a map with 500+ votes and 4 stars has a good chance as being as good as one with 5 votes and 5 *s.



Finally, it would be nice to see some base-building features added in, and more mob customization.

What keeps me from playing AE? The fact that I have bought a house, moved in, got everything set up... AND THEY HAVEN'T CONNECTED MY BROADBAND YET. IT'S BEEN THREE WEEKS FFS!!

Which is specially embarrassing as there's an arc I really need to play involving Fusionette.

DAMN YOU VODAFONE!!

*Ahem*

Carry on.