What keeps you away from AE arcs?

"Eventually the game is going to die so who cares what happens" is a remarkably stupid, shortsighted argument even for you.


Gratz on lowering your own bar, which I thought was already resting on the ground.

I will not let them take the AE away. It is entirely too useful for filming. If that means keeping an older version on a subdirectory, bypassing the updater, and only being able to use it there, or promising to send the Paragon Studios dev team gift baskets from the Swiss Colony every month from now until the game dies, my AE Sound Stage STAYS.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)

The difference you're missing is that in the context of this game, "it's cold in here" does not imply "you feel that it's cold". The former merely imparts information to the player and leaves it up to them to determine how the character feels and reacts (if at all). The latter makes assumptions that aren't even necessary, much less warranted.

The fact that it's usually done in a fleeting, easily-ignored fashion makes it a minor sin in most cases, but the complaint is a legitimate one nevertheless.

It implies that I can tell that it's cold. Otherwise I wouldn't have that information. It is making assumptions about my character.

To restate, I don't actually care if someone makes assumptions about my character. I would personally rather that they make assumptions that will almost always be accurate (i.e. I can feel chilled) than have to read through a bunch of sterile, carefully chosen words designed to make sure some slim minority doesn't feel put upon in some minor way. I just find it arbitrary to say that feeling chilled is "wrong" but making the assumptions to tell me that I can tell it's cold is "okay".

You're getting your I's mixed up. The fact that you, the player, know that it's cold doesn't imply that the character knows it too. You are privy to information that your character does not and cannot know.

The difference is subtle, yes. But it's there, and it can make the difference between proper mood-setting and godmoding.

It implies nothing of the sort. It is simply a statement about the world. As Shatterjack notes, it is player knowledge. How or if the character responds is another matter. Part of being a good roleplayer is being able to manage what information does or does not get past the "firewall" between player and character.

I do. While I'm only going to roll my eyes at trivial transgressions like the author deciding what room temperature my character prefers (unless there are a great many of them), large assumptions like whether or not my character can be usefully cloned are far less forgivable.

Damn, where the hell were you when I was fighting this exact thing last month? I was all alone, surrounded by people who think one size fits all.

The stuff in those little boxes is character knowledge. If you're using that little box to tell me that it's cold, you're saying that my character is aware of this fact. If you want this to be player knowledge only, find a way to make that clear because those little boxes aren't the way.
Meh. Then don't play the arc. It's like the usual complaint when watching a movie "Well, why did he just do THIS at the beginning and prevent the whole thing!?" Because then there wouldn't be a movie, that's why. It's an arc about clones; if you can't handle the idea that you can be cloned then there's no arc there for you to play. Either suspend your complaints about being cloned or go back to street sweeping.

None of my characters fit a mold of someone who would want to run a cloning facility but I can set that aside because that's what the arc is about. If it got that deep in my craw, I'd just abandon the arc and find something else to do.

I would contest that "95%" number. The "run your hand through your hair" thing doesn't just ignore robots and the like, but also bald people and those wearing hats, cowls and full-head masks.

Not being able to feel cold doesn't change the fact that it's cold. "Cold" is a physical state that alters the way the world works, so it helps to be aware of that in some way. If not direct temperature sensing then visually or whatever area-sensing utility the machine has.

But ultimately I'm supposed to be the one who can say whether or not my robot knows if it's cold or not, right? Telling me that it's cold is making an assumption about my character.

And no, I don't buy the "It's only player knowledge" cop-out. There is zero reason for me as a player to have information about the room temperature that my character does not have. Imaginary room temperatures have no impact on game play (or "the way the world works") so the only reason to bring it up is to relate it to my character.

I do find it amusing that people are arguing so hard to insist that it's okay to tell me that my character can tell that it's cold but it's not okay to say I feel chilled.

So you are saying there is one way -- and one way only -- for someone to determine whether or not a place is cold? Yeah, that's what we call "silly."

Your robot has no skin, hence no nerves, but it doesn't have an exterior thermometer? Some sort of thermistor censor it can use on items in its vicinity? Infrared detector? A portable thermocouple? An onboard pyrometer? It doesn't have eyes? How stupidly built is your robot? It's a product of Chevrolet, isn't it?

As I pointed out in the other thread on this, there's no reason why it has to be "sterile." It can be just a dramatic as what's used in the game currently. Naturally I was mocked by those who disagree. Well, whatevs. I gave it a go.

I'm stating that it's MY CHOICE if my robot can determine cold or not.

Are you seriously arguing that it's wrong to say that I'm chilled but that you can decide that my robot MUST have some way of determining cold or else it's just "silly"? You don't see the hypocrisy in that?

If your character is aware of the outside world at all, it should be able to determine the temperature. Perhaps it can only *guess* based on visual evidence and can make mistakes, but otherwise you're playing a non-sentient pet rock... which is a pretty ridiculous assertion, if so, and you'll be doing simply to score points, not from something you really do.

I have a living statue -- cleverly named Hero Statue -- who can't feel temperature, but when he sees people shivering or fanning themselves, he can tell that it's either cold or hot. If he sees ice in Frostfire's lair, he knows it's cold. He certainly CAN'T feel chilled. The fact that I have characters like that is precisely WHY I'm so good at ignoring vast portions of the text in this game without even blinking.

Again, you're happily hijacking my character concept and telling me how he must be run to fit your own conceits. If you really have to argue with me and insist that my character must be played how you see fit or else it's just "silly" or I'm otherwise not playing him right, I have to wonder why you feel fit to complain about running hands through hair as though you're being put upon.

If your robot can't determine basic things about the world based on whatever evidence is at hand, how does he navigate? How did he earn his hero license? Your argument that your robot is a metal Helen Keller who lives in some sort of permanent sensory deprivation is a BS argument that you're making just to argue. Of course your robot somehow manages to navigate the world and of course he is capable of making informed, intelligent decisions, because otherwise you're talking about a mindless bulldozer, and no one is going to call a bulldozer for help.

It isn't a "cop-out"; it's an absolute fact that has been established for as long as RPG's have existed. Players frequently have knowledge that their character's don't.
Nonsense. Telling you that it's cold in here helps set the mood for the mission. That is done for the player's benefit. The author isn't writing to entertain the character. It is then up to the player to decide whether the character feels the temperature, whether it makes the character uncomfortable, and so on. Doing this without making unwarranted assumptions about player characters or being "sterile" is not only possible, but fairly easy.

Your attempted fiat declaration that everything in a text window is automatically character knowledge is as bizarre as it is unsupported.

I'm not telling you anything. I'm saying your nonsensical argument is silly. Explain to me how your character determines right from wrong, up from down, black from white, good guy from bad guy?

How does he decide what to do, who to hit, who to help? That exact same intelligence is what he would use to determine other things about his world. Not just good guys from bad guys, but whether it's hot enough somewhere to melt him or cold enough to turn his metal hide frangible. No one in City Hall would give such a dummy -- in both senses of the word -- a hero license. You could never be sure he wouldn't crush a kid just because.

Who cares? It's my character. If I want to make a character who is deaf, blind, mute, unable to understand any sensory input at all and is dumb as a sack of mulch then that's my choice, right?

The thing is, if I made such a character, I wouldn't get myself wadded up over someone saying "It's cold" or "You're chilled" because I wouldn't expect people (Devs or players) to author their arcs to fit my extraordinarily dense character's foibles. I would expect them to author their arcs to fit a majority of the characters who'll run it and anyone who deviates that much from the norm can work out for themselves how their character fits.

I'm not arguing against saying "It's cold", I'm saying that getting worked up over flavor text is a waste of time. Ironically (heh) you seem to already understand that as you said you readily ignore chunks of flavor text that don't apply to your character.

Or maybe you're deliberately mischaracterizing my argument.

Nobody is suggesting anything along the lines of "It's cold in here where your character is but your character doesn't know that!". What I'm saying is that the GM says "It's cold in here", and the player decides whether the character realizes it or not, and how they react if they do.

Sure. He can line up to get his hero license right behind Stevie Wonder at the DMV. There are a couple basic assumptions your character must fulfill in order to be allowed out into the world, and this silly construct you're making up (at this point I don't believe for a second you have a character like this, nevermind a robot toon) wouldn't make it in the door, let alone get a license.

I do. I'm arguing against your silly premise. That's what the internet is FOR.

And he'll get it, too!



See? I win!

Too small to read. That could say anything. Ergo, I win.

*shrugs* Gratz on a deliberate misquote. Bolded both of those just so you could compare them more easily.

Seriously, the point I took from the first statement was perfectly pragmatic and obvious: if the unmaintained, unplayed arcs are never removed from the system, they will remain in the system until the game itself is shut down which, at SOME point, is inevitable.

I neither foresee nor want the AE itself shut down but, again, if it is, all the chaff goes away as well. As things stand now, it may very well die (through lack of use, even if the AE system remains in the game) BECAUSE of said chaff. Is that REALLY what the "don't purge ANY arcs" crowd is after?