What keeps you away from AE arcs?


Acemace

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Also, I don't understand what constitutes "long" or "short" arcs. I kind of think it's the number of missions, but that's really not a good guide. One of my arcs used all the smallest maps -- the university basement one, a bank, a small warehouse -- yet it got autotagged "long" when I specifically designed it to be story-focused and short. Get in, experience the story, get out.
Yeah, "long" and "short" are meaningless. I'm not sure what they're based on. File size? Number of objectives? All these flags are good for is filtering out the farms. It would be far more useful just to sort arcs by number of missions.
Those are other good search terms to be added: Number of Missions and Size of Maps.

Missions: 4
Map Size: 2 small indoor, 2 large outdoor
Number of opponents: 125

...& etc.


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
Which is why I'm in favor of the 'like' system of ratings.

Taking it a step further, I'd like to see an Amazon-style system of user reviews appended to the arc, identified by global handle. I'm usually able to get an accurate sense of whether or not I'll like a book by reading what other people enjoyed or didn't enjoy about a title.
I totally agree with Nethergoat's addendum.

Combining these with "Number of Times Completed" versus "Number of Times Abandoned" would help give us a sense of a thread's worthiness. Plus the "can only rate once completed" would be good. Not a huge boost, maybe, but it would be something.


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Originally Posted by SuperOz View Post
What kept me away for a long time was what a number of people have mentioned, which is the very existence of the AE buildings in-game. Superheroes playing holographic games of their own missions? Sounds kind of ludicrous, and it wasn't til recently that I thought of ways I could use this to my advantage, using its own in-game story existence as a jumping off point for stories.

I realised that if it's a holographic system, it's still an electronic medium, so villains, heroes, spy groups...they could all utilise it for threats, challenges, covert missions...I did a single-mission arc just this last week with the major NPC mobs from Praetoria and wrote it under the pretext that Longbow wants heroes in Praetoria to scout for them (thus giving people an RP/IC reason to go to a zone that tops out at 20 and has no appreciable mobs but plenty of badges).
One mission of mine which I deleted out of frustration was playing off of the fact the AE system was made by a supervillain. My arc's conceit was that it was Aeon's way to uncover the abilities of heroes under the guise of a game. I got slammed so often for that arc that I just destroyed it out of anger. I replaced it with an unpublished mission comprised solely of my own characters so I can fight alongside my alts. I just figured, "Screw it, I'll play by myself."


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5 View Post
But the second part of your post got me thinking that maybe the devs should instead choose a "trusted player" (they work for free!) to pick out some of the better arcs and label them as such... somehow. Pull aside List-Maker-X and ask, "give us a list of five good heroic arcs for levels 25-35"... Or something. Anything.

Maybe they could even just look at the lists we make and rubberstamp a few of them.
I consider this a terrible idea. I disagree vehemently with the attitudes of several of the AE subforum's self-appointed arbiters of artistic perfection. As I said in my earlier post, the single thing that's made me most sour about AE is the AE community.


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Originally Posted by Heartbreaker View Post
Soometimes, I'm just looking for a quick fix, and it really doesn't seem like there are a whole lot of one-shot missions that aren't farms. It's been a while since I paid attention, but I know the last time I really cared, about a year ago, the prevailing attitude was just "Single mission arcs can't be good". I think that's false, but since the people who seem to actually care about AE seem to endorse that attitude, it creates a self defeating spiral. Maybe someone should host a "best single-mission arc" contest?
Single mission arcs are a personal interest of mine. I try to pack as much of a story as I am able into a single mission; "Death by Snoo-Snoo" and "Who is Kidnapping the World's Great Philosophers" are the ones I'm proudest of. They are difficult, high level arcs, and you will probably want a tank. I tend to be reluctant to start anything longer than three missions, myself, and that's about my personal limit.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

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Originally Posted by Acemace View Post
Sadly MA arcs lack anything substantially different (read, interesting) from conventional mission content, to merit a separate contact.
Familiar maps meet familiar objectives, with pseudo intriguing story lines, which isn't to say there are no creative authors in the games community, there are simply limited tools to breath life into something less conventional then an average tip mission.


Player generated maps would be a start in that direction, using the base editor with some added features. ...
I agree, same old maps in MAs and in the game are the single biggest turn off for me in this great game.


 

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These days, there has to be a specific reason for me to need tickets for me to run any AE content. Basically if I need lower level salvage and don't feel like paying for it, or if I want to roll some low level recipes.

Most of the time I do step in the AE, it will be to do my own arc. It's nothing special, but I know that it at least has:

* some relation to cannon
* some reason WHY it is in virtual reality
* some standard mobs I know will reward (two missions of Crey, and I like beating on Crey)
* my custom mobs which *I* think make sense, don't think are overpowered, and just like seeing every now and then

I've come to grips with nobody else playing it, and understand why. At four missions it's VERY LONG, even though two missions can essentially be stealthed. Custom critters can be a put off. It's set for higher levels. There's an ELITE BOSS at the end (though you get an ally). It's not very funny, it's not a farm. While structurally ok (grammar, spelling, etc), the writing isn't particularly epic. But I know what I'm getting.

-------------

What I'd *like* to see are for some of the best one mission arcs to be adapted into tip missions, though I suppose that would really require two variations per mission. Scout for missions that could easily slip into cannon (stock mobs except for a boss or two), put them in the tip rotation. Creators would get a kick out of it, and there would be some more tip variety. Those missions might also feel more "real".


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I generally can't be bothered to try anymore. There's not much point.

I've written dozens of arcs since AE's inception. At any given time, I have between three and eight arcs published. They rotate through fairly regularly as I write stuff that I consider to be better than the old stuff. This year alone, I cranked out something like sixteen or seventeen mission arcs, including a ten-arc, 40-odd mission storyline for my weekly coalition group.

Earlier this year, I decided to stop writing for a general audience and just focus on writing for that coalition. There's a very simple reason why.

In the past year, I've had exactly five plays on all of my arcs combined that did not come from my coalition. One of them was on Between Love And Loyalty (still published) asking if it could be put on the Excellent Arcs thread. One of them was on Vault of the Descended (since unpublished) and loved it. Three were from a team who'd run one of the version of The Price of Freedom, the feedback from which I was able to greatly improve the arc's ending for Aeon's Third Challenge. Goodness knows why I bothered.

As a writer, it's obvious to me that my ideas of Fun and Challenge aren't at all in line with what other peoples' are. I write missions for teams to play--people want to solo Architect missions. I write missions with a specific tone with mild humour sprinkled in--people either want epic dramas that explore the human condition or lolbat. I write an arc that's as long as it needs to be to tell the story--people want something they can churn through in under fifteen minutes. I like the idea of tactical encounters that require a plan other than Tank And Spank--people want to tap some buttons while chatting about the latest Thing.

I've written everything from simple lowbie arcs that can be played on Autopilot to intentionally difficult end-game-like encounters that can easily cause teamwipes if the group can't figure out how to overcome the obstacle. To my credit, I have yet to publish a single arc that cannot be beaten, though I've had a few coalition members stare aghast at a couple of challenges I've thrown at them until they figure out a way to deal with it. Those are the rewarding moments, to me.

All that shows up when I'm a player. I got bored very easily with the vast majority of arcs I have run in the past. They're either no different from any other newspaper mission I could be running or the author can't figure out the difference between "tactical challenge" and "arduous." (Hint: Aim, Build Up, Tar Patch, and nukes are not powers that should go on every single Lt or Minion-entity on the map without careful consideration) Nevertheless, I have finished almost every arc I've ever started--sometimes after much slogging and against my better judgement. The only times I don't finish an arc are if it's an obvious farm (not my thing) or I'm crunched for time and have plans for that character later. I leave feedback on every arc I run. Sometimes that feedback has suggestions for improvements and other times it's just a nod to the author that someone played his/her arc. I'd estimate that a third of the time, I get a message back within a week along the lines of "Wow, I didn't know that was still published."

It's fairly telling how clogged the AE is if the authors themselves don't even remember that they have something out there for others to run. Meanwhile, the authors who update their arcs regularly in response to feedback twiddle their thumbs waiting for someone to run into them with the Random button.

I try to run a handful of arcs a month just to support the system. Sometimes I only get in one or two arcs and other times I'll splurge and run nothing but AE missions for most of a weekend. I like some of the Dev's Choice and HoF and dislike others. I try to run a few from lists people have compiled or CoHMissionReview. I don't usually write reviews because I find it more interesting to talk to the author directly than to leave an essay--like I'm doing now, I suppose.

Short version, then (too late).

Right now, I want Incarnate stuff. Even when that's done, I doubt I'll do more than my usual approaches to AE here and there. I haven't published anything in a couple months and am having difficulty psyching myself up to write a New Year's arc for my coalition.

There's just no point to it anymore, which is a damn shame because it's potentially one of the coolest things about this game. Sadly, the implementation simply falls short.

Someone get the PvP, AE, and base editing playerbases together and tell them to stop putting each other down and start realizing how much they have in common.


@Cybernetic Hobo
Dear Devs: Stop ignoring your niche communities. Base builders, PvPers, Architect authors--we pay our subscription, too.

 

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Originally Posted by Cybernetic_Hobo View Post
Someone get the PvP, AE, and base editing playerbases together and tell them to stop putting each other down and start realizing how much they have in common.
Huh? When have the AE and base editing people put each other down? The base editing community is sort of like the old guy sitting on his porch to the AE community, commiserating about how when he was our age, he had to spin desks to stack stuff, us kids these days don't know how good we have it, and another thing, the base editors don't get no fancy shmancy "contests" either.


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Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

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Originally Posted by gec72 View Post
* some reason WHY it is in virtual reality.
For me, this one point is a non-issue. Any mission I run, whether "canon", radio, AE, or whatever is "real" for my characters.

Just because Paragon came up with an explanation to differentiate player-made vs. official canon doesn't mean that one can't ignore that explanation and still RP.

The AE building is not a virtual reality, it is just another teleporter.

Side note: I have characters who never touch the AE, those who only leave the AE to train, those who do mostly canon content with some AE mixed in, etc. The AE is great for leveling past contacts with content I've I don't feel like doing again or those with content I just don't like.

Variety is good; the AE helps in that regard.


 

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Originally Posted by Olantern View Post
I consider this a terrible idea. I disagree vehemently with the attitudes of several of the AE subforum's self-appointed arbiters of artistic perfection. As I said in my earlier post, the single thing that's made me most sour about AE is the AE community.
It was just a thought, nothing more nothing less. Those "arbiters of artistic perfection" at least wouldn't steer you into a farm, an abandoned arc that was never finished or something poorly written. It wouldn't be a guarantee of "artistic perfection" (or whatever), I'd probably not like some of them as well, but it would be a start.


 

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Originally Posted by Cybernetic_Hobo View Post
I write missions for teams to play--people want to solo Architect missions.
Yes, I do. the reason has nothing to do with you, really, but is caused by two factors: I prefer to go at my own pace rather than be pulled along or held back by a group (and with the dogs I own, I often have to be absent unexpectedly for varying amounts of time), the second being the way the game has been set up since the jump: only the mission-holder gets to read the mission text. What good is your awesome story if I can't see 80% of it? In that situation, all I'm doing is beating up mobs I'd otherwise see in the outside game and getting crappy rewards to boot.

So yes, I solo AE arcs. I want to read what you wrote, not just kill stuff mindlessly while flavor dialogue zips past too fast for me to read, nevermind savor.


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Yes, I do. the reason has nothing to do with you, really, but is caused by two factors: I prefer to go at my own pace rather than be pulled along or held back by a group (and with the dogs I own, I often have to be absent unexpectedly for varying amounts of time), the second being the way the game has been set up since the jump: only the mission-holder gets to read the mission text. What good is your awesome story if I can't see 80% of it? In that situation, all I'm doing is beating up mobs I'd otherwise see in the outside game and getting crappy rewards to boot.

So yes, I solo AE arcs. I want to read what you wrote, not just kill stuff mindlessly while flavor dialogue zips past too fast for me to read, nevermind savor.
Agreed. I play on the MA Superteam, which is a group that gets together to play AE arcs for the story. Even when the leader copy/pastes into teamchat all the dialogue that the rest of the team would normally miss, I feel an obligation to play at a faster pace so I don't hold up the group. Or, when leading, even more pressure to copy/paste the info fast enough so the team doesn't get bored and read faster to keep the team moving.

This means I will sometimes skim the text and my experience of the story suffers from it. Just like canon content, I prefer to solo it so I can give the story my full attention.

This doesn't keep me away from AE arcs, but it definitely makes me more choosy.


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I solo AE arcs too, for mostly the reasons people stated. Also, from a story immersion perspective, most arcs, both in AE and in the regular game, are written with the soloist in mind. The contact is speaking to you, not the team; they're just along because you asked them. So I write for soloists, since that's where the audience is, and that's what suits my playstyle as well, then balance encounters accordingly. So anyone who has played my arcs and made comments about how so-and-so should be an AV...no, they really shouldn't. AVs are team content that scales down to EBs as a nod to soloists. I write solo content, I might as well just make an EB and avoid the "Dominators and Controllers need not apply" warning.

Let's face it, there's no point in giving your boss lovingly crafted death lines when a team is just going to drop him in three seconds anyway.


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Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

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If we could color code the attacks of our created enemies like we can ours, if they had access to a few pool powers, and big dreamin' here, if we could IO our mobs, lol. And really big dreamin' here, if we could control the AI of the bosses and such, in the way you can control your allies in Dragon Age, for example.


 

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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5 View Post
It was just a thought, nothing more nothing less. Those "arbiters of artistic perfection" at least wouldn't steer you into a farm, an abandoned arc that was never finished or something poorly written. It wouldn't be a guarantee of "artistic perfection" (or whatever), I'd probably not like some of them as well, but it would be a start.
I completely agree with Olantern's post. The AE community is what keeps me away.

While it is true and much appreciated that the reviewers (or most "active" member of the AE community) won't steer you into a farm, they are still sending a lot of very good arcs into the 4 star oblivion.

It's funny how they hate it when it happens to them but to do it to other authors in the name of their own definition of "artistic perfection" is perfectly fine....

"Officially" downstaring other authors' arcs for unimportant details is almost as bad, to me, as being a 1 star bandit. It's even more hypocritical.


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Originally Posted by Nebulhym View Post
I completely agree with Olantern's post. The AE community is what keeps me away.

While it is true and much appreciated that the reviewers (or most "active" member of the AE community) won't steer you into a farm, they are still sending a lot of very good arcs into the 4 star oblivion.

It's funny how they hate it when it happens to them but to do it to other authors in the name of their own definition of "artistic perfection" is perfectly fine....

"Officially" downstaring other authors' arcs for unimportant details is almost as bad, to me, as being a 1 star bandit. It's even more hypocritical.

Actually, there's only really 2 "reviewers" left in the AE community: Myself and GlaziusF. Glazius rates *everything* 5 stars in-game no matter what he puts in his review. And I typically rate 5 stars if I like the arc at all, and avoid rating it if I don't care for it. Venture is more or less the most critical of the AE reviewing community, but he's been mostly inactive for quite a while now.


 

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Originally Posted by Nebulhym View Post
"Officially" downstaring other authors' arcs for unimportant details is almost as bad, to me, as being a 1 star bandit. It's even more hypocritical.
That depends on your definition of "unimportant." Things like plot holes you could drive a War Walker through, custom critters that annihilate purpled-out tankers in seconds (or even worse, floor your to-hit or recharge or drain all your end or take forever to kill and still give out substandard rewards), spelling errors and typos every other sentence, "canon" arcs with such complete disregard for canon that you have to wonder if the author has ever even read any mission text....those things aren't unimportant.

And besides, giving an arc a four-star rating ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE A BAD THING. The fact that it is a bad thing is more a problem with the ratings system and search engine than the person handing out the four-star rating. The search engine defines a four-star rating as "excellent."


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Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

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Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

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Originally Posted by Nebulhym View Post
While it is true and much appreciated that the reviewers (or most "active" member of the AE community) won't steer you into a farm, they are still sending a lot of very good arcs into the 4 star oblivion.
But I don't think the existence of 4-star oblivion is their fault in the slightest. I also question how much power a few people have over whether your arc "makes it" or not - if anything, you'd have to blame them and the "slavish followers of their opinion", which I think just getting into silly territory. Remember, only a small percentage of players read these forums.


 

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It can be too hard to find a good arc, and I do like to solo so I can read everything. I know it's been said before.

I do have a trick that sometimes lands me good arcs to play, though. I play on Virtue mostly, and when I see a good looking character with a well written bio, I jot down the name. Later, I may do a /getglobalname on it and then look for any arcs written by that person. It tends to give me better results than blindly searching.


"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me

@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn

 

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Originally Posted by Rabid_Metroid View Post
It can be too hard to find a good arc, and I do like to solo so I can read everything. I know it's been said before.

I do have a trick that sometimes lands me good arcs to play, though. I play on Virtue mostly, and when I see a good looking character with a well written bio, I jot down the name. Later, I may do a /getglobalname on it and then look for any arcs written by that person. It tends to give me better results than blindly searching.
That's an interesting method. If you ever catch me, I put my arc title and number in the bio.


 

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Originally Posted by lionheart_fr View Post
For me, this one point is a non-issue. Any mission I run, whether "canon", radio, AE, or whatever is "real" for my characters.

Just because Paragon came up with an explanation to differentiate player-made vs. official canon doesn't mean that one can't ignore that explanation and still RP.

The AE building is not a virtual reality, it is just another teleporter.
Agreed. I treat all of my arcs as if they actually occur in the actual game world and as such tie into canon quite a lot. The whole virtual reality thing is completely ignored in my writing.


 

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Why don't I step foot in any AE missions, period?

Simple.

User-generated content sucks. Enough said.

If I wanted to deal with heavy-handed railroading, Mary Sue-ism, and grammar that would make every 2nd grade English teacher's head explode, I'd go read the crapton of fan-fic that's out there.

I play the missions done by the devs, because they're professionals.


 

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I play the missions done by the devs, because they're professionals.
Stephanie Meyer is a "professional" too, it says here.

While it's certainly true that the worst content in the game is found in AE, so is the best. The "professional" content is not very good and the good parts are all in the past. The quality has been trending the wrong way for a while now.


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