What keeps you away from AE arcs?
Impressive!
I play the missions done by the devs, because they're professionals. |
And what do you make of Doc Aeon, who's arcs from his previous life as a 'mere' player are still available?
Are they acceptable because now he's a dev, or are they still garbage because when he wrote them he was a "user"?
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My City Was Gone
I'm not surprised that you think that.
However, I think you are outnumbered by those who think the most recent story arcs (perhaps fewer in regard to the Alpha arc), think the arcs over the past few issues have been outstanding. |
That's part of the problem I have with the recent decisions on what to include in AE. We get doppelgangers but we still can't have a Lieutenant as a "defeat a boss" detail? A basic feature that has been used in dev-created missions since day one has been asked for and not implemented since AE launch, but a new shiny with limited utility but hey, YOU GET TO FIGHT EVIL YOU!!! AWESOME!!! is implemented very quickly. It's downright insulting, really.
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Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
However, I think you are outnumbered by those who think the most recent story arcs (perhaps fewer in regard to the Alpha arc), think the arcs over the past few issues have been outstanding. |
If people want to argue that the newer missions are "outstanding" that is their prerogative, but they will have to show their work.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Popularity is no metric of quality.
If people want to argue that the newer missions are "outstanding" that is their prerogative, but they will have to show their work. |
The two Doppelganger arcs, however, have both cool mechanics and a very cool story that is executed extremely well. There are no "filler" missions in those arcs at all, as you progress naturally from one piece of evidence to the next in an organic fashion, building to a superb climax with an interesting pay-off. I think those are easily the best arcs currently in the game.
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The 2nd clone arc is certainly the saddest one in the game
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
What is the biggest reason that keeps you away from the AE building?
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I find it tiresome to have to sift through THOUSANDS of horrible arcs in order to find one that is of high enough quality to match the Dev created content that already exists.
And before someone suggests for me to peruse third party web sites that list "good" arcs, keep in mind that more often than not I dislike movies that critics adore.
What that means is simply, It's just yet another list that I have to sift through in order to find something I actually like with the added annoyance of not being able to do so in game and having to browse outside of the game for said content.
And a second question, what's something that *would* bring you into the AE building to try out an arc?
Go Here |
Removal of arcs from AE that belong to inactive accounts. This should clear up the listings by the largest factor, and not require some weird special filter coding. And to be fair, lets give it a one week timer before being removed from the date it goes inactive, you know, to give folks who play using time cards a chance to re-activate so that their arcs remain intact.
I will stop here so as not to fill up this post with meticulous points of annoyance, I have more, but these points should suffice for now.
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
Lets start with something simple like:
Removal of arcs from AE that belong to inactive accounts. |
let's not toss out the baby with the bathwater.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
except that a great arc can belong to an inactive account as easily as an active one.
let's not toss out the baby with the bathwater. |
Each successive change to the AE causes more and more arcs to become invalid, inactive accounts are not fixing their arcs to make them playable again, thus over time they add to the massive list we need to sift through without being actually PLAYABLE.
So yes, lets toss out the old bathwater.
Like anything else, the AE needs periodic maintenance. This is but one type.
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
Just to complicate matters further, a lot of people feel that much of the stuff written by "the professionals" back in 2003 and 2004 is awful, at least by the standards of 2010 (soon to be 2011).
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Faces of the City
I think the Ray Cooling arc is cool for the mechanics and the new mission maps but about average as to the writing.
The two Doppelganger arcs, however, have both cool mechanics and a very cool story that is executed extremely well. There are no "filler" missions in those arcs at all, as you progress naturally from one piece of evidence to the next in an organic fashion, building to a superb climax with an interesting pay-off. I think those are easily the best arcs currently in the game. |
So an arc that only applies to mutant and some science origin characters is "a very cool story" for an MMO?
No filler and cool mechanics are good mission design, yes, but not necessarily good storytelling when the story in question seems mostly an excuse to use these cool mechanics.
Just to complicate matters further, a lot of people feel that much of the stuff written by "the professionals" back in 2003 and 2004 is awful, at least by the standards of 2010 (soon to be 2011).
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While in theory you have a point, in practical terms, not so much.
Each successive change to the AE causes more and more arcs to become invalid, inactive accounts are not fixing their arcs to make them playable again, thus over time they add to the massive list we need to sift through without being actually PLAYABLE. |
And just because an account is active doesn't mean they bother to update their arcs either. Good arcs by authors who let their accounts lapse every few months are far better to leave in the system than an active player's abandoned monkey farm.
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Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Frankly, the reason why I hardly ever play an AE arc is because there are so many that are just plain crap.
My typical run-down of player-made content runs a gamut of the following...
Fight ME!
Okay. So, now I'm fighting the player's main character. Of course, the player thinks very highly of their character, so they ramp him up to Arch Villain status.
The player would only be able to hit this hard or resist this much if they chewed on Tier 2 Inspirations like they were Pez. However, when we face off against their NPC version, they simply MUST be the hardest challenge we the players would ever face.
-Which brings up a problem I have with the Critter Creator. Why do our NPCs have to be broken-down versions of the PCs? In some cases they're "broken up," because you can slam more powers into a Minion than the average minion would ever have (easily making them as tough as bosses). In fact, throw a full powerset in and it's more powers than even an Arch Villain would have.
--And all of their attacks are doing ramped-up damage! Give an enemy a full attack chain and they will be able to unleash a nearly-never-ending volley of attacks, and you WILL get hit (painfully).
Frankly, I'm sick and tired of having to fight Mary Sues.
Behold My Challenge!
This goes back to my issue of being able to cram too much into a custom enemy.
There are some skilled manipulators of the Architect engine out there. Sadly, they decided to turn their efforts toward punishing players of their arcs. You'll be moving along through the missions, fighting your average enemy spawns, having a perfectly fine time, and suddenly get hit by a horde of minions who have a full complement of fire powers. Imagine, if you will, getting hit by three Rains of Fire at once, now couple that with three Blazes and three fireballs, all with higher damage than they should have because NPCs have it automatically programmed to hit harder because they get fewer attacks than PCs.
The disturbing thing is the arc creator tested this and ENJOYED how it turned out. Such malevolently sadistic construction does not lend itself to repetitive play.
Here's how I think the story should be!
I've run into few of these.
Thankfully.
Still, each one I've run across has turned out to be the same thing. The author pokes fun at what the Developers have created for the playerbase and tries to desperately convince you that Sister Psyche should be having a lesbian relationship with Swan or Penelope Yin or some other hideous mash-up (sometimes thrusting their own Mary Sue into the unlikely pairing).
Poorly Written Adventure, GO!
Just... The title says it all.
If you want people to enjoy your arc, have the text make sense. Grammar isn't hard!
FARM! FARM! FARM!
Yay. Exploiting the AE. Whee. I'm just gonna keep wailing on these weak enemies that are giving gratuitous rewards.
It's simply AWESOME getting everything for nearly nothing. Hell, with missions like these, why don't the devs just put the Inf, salvage, recipes and other drops on a timer and my character can just sit in the door of a mission all day long, reaping the undeserved rewards of doing bubkis. Hell, we can make that the pool power that replaces Fitness.
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Frankly, I think it's sad that the AE falls to the wayside unless somebody's exploiting it. Then we get to watch the patchwork fly as the developers scramble to fix the issue of players lazily hamming on the same mission over and over again so they can get their characters to level 50 more rapidly and dump rare salvage and recipes on the market.
This is why we can't have nice things.
The developers have to spend effort that could have been devoted to making something nice to fixing and exploit instead because players decide they would rather take the quick and easy path to greatness.
And they wonder why the developers forced the "Slow" option on the player in the Incarnate arc... Though, honestly, it would have been funny to watch people complaining that they suddenly couldn't play their characters anymore "because the Well said I can't!"
I'm sorry... The whole issue is a complex web of ridiculous behavior.
What would really make me happy is the ability to truly make Custom NPCs. Why can't we use the Minigun power the Crey Enforcers and Council Force soldiers use? Why can't we make alternate versions of Paragon Protectors (instead of "approximating" a Custom NPC to look close to the real thing)? If I want Full Auto on a character, why do I have to use the Corrupter/Defender/Blaster version?
Did you all know that if you give the NPC Blaster powers, it's still able to fire off the Tier 1 and 2 powers when Mezzed? Corrupter-powered characters will Scourge you when below 50% health (bye-bye Tankers and Brutes) and there's really no safe ground in regards to Control powers. Controller powers will hit you with double damage when locked in and NPCs with Dominator powers will eventually pop Domination and wreck your world.
I'm glad the Tanker Resistance Debuff for their Tier 1 attacks hasn't seemed to make it into the AE (but I could be mistaken).
As long as Custom NPCs are always just ramshackle PCs, AE will continue to irk me.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
Gah, finally found the thread mentioned by wife (D_R/Samuraiko).
To respond to the thread itself - why don't I play it more? Chaff... metric kilotons of it. Why don't I use it? Partly personal, and partly functional. Once upon a time, there were several maps in the system that I badly wanted to use in several arcs. They were determined to be "broken", removed from the system, and never returned. Bad taste in the mouth syndrome, and quite certainly my issue to "deal" with. Functionally, better tools needed, both regarding the interface itself, and with regard to what game mechanics are available to the system itself. For example, I'd like to be able to design custom GMs, but there's no option to scale an opponent that large.
Getting a bit tired, so I'm unlikely to be thinking through the ramifications effectively, but in response to the folks that would like to see the vast bulk of garbage-arcs culled from the system...
I'm wondering if it would be possible/useful/fair to ditch arcs that haven't been PLAYED within the passage of a certain amount of time. Granted, this doesn't get rid of any active farms, but it does at least clear anything that has "dropped off the radar", and if it's the work of an active AE author, can be republished, since it's still presumably saved locally. Yes, they lose their ratings... but we all seem to know what the rating system itself is worth.
After that, implement a similar system for regularly culling arcs that aren't played for increasing amounts of time. For example:
Delete if not played within 3 days.
Then, delete if not played within 7 days.
Then, 14 days.
Then, 30 days.
60 days
90 days
180 days, rechecking thereafter every 180 days
Thoughts? Pros and cons? The solution seems fairly simple to me... which almost certainly means that it's far too late this evening for me to be posting in a completely intelligent fashion.
edit - Yes, definitely getting tired; thinking too much about this. Regarding being able to identify farms: A meter showing how many plays a given arc has received in the past 7 days. Ten? Either a) not a farm, or b) a bad farm. 62,947? Ummm... is this really as simple as it seems to me, at the moment?
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
I'm a robot. I can't be cloned. I'm a wizard. I am the chosen champion of [insert obscure deity I made up], and there can be only one. I'm Iron Man. My clone doesn't come with power armor, and without it I'm just an ordinary guy. My "powers" are the result of years of training.
So an arc that only applies to mutant and some science origin characters is "a very cool story" for an MMO? No filler and cool mechanics are good mission design, yes, but not necessarily good storytelling when the story in question seems mostly an excuse to use these cool mechanics. |
I agree that AS WRITTEN it's pretty bad, but the version that's IN MY HEAD is pretty cool. I've just become adept at ignoring what the Devs write.
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
I'm wondering if it would be possible/useful/fair to ditch arcs that haven't been PLAYED within the passage of a certain amount of time. Granted, this doesn't get rid of any active farms, but it does at least clear anything that has "dropped off the radar", and if it's the work of an active AE author, can be republished, since it's still presumably saved locally. Yes, they lose their ratings... but we all seem to know what the rating system itself is worth. |
The only real plan I can get behind that would tick off the fewest people is to find all the arcs which are broken due to updates and make them "invisible." That way if people want to fix their arcs, they can. If they're inactive they won't care. If and when they return they can fix them.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Since there are literally hundreds of thousands of arcs, the vast majority aren't going to be played recently. Basically you're removing any which have had the bad luck to be overlooked. Even if they become "invisible" but still in the system, you're still aggravating authors by making them republish. Same goes with arcs by inactive players -- some may be quite good and shouldn't be punished for not currently playing.
The only real plan I can get behind that would tick off the fewest people is to find all the arcs which are broken due to updates and make them "invisible." That way if people want to fix their arcs, they can. If they're inactive they won't care. If and when they return they can fix them. |
Anyway, now I'm REALLY tired. G'night.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
I feel your pain and it's something I've railed against a lot in the past. (And mocked for being anal retentive.) The game is so full of things aimed at you having a human hero in the Superman mold ("You slick your hair back" or "You crack your knuckles") that I now automatically ignore anything that doesn't fit into my own worldview of how Paragon City works.
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I agree that AS WRITTEN it's pretty bad, but the version that's IN MY HEAD is pretty cool. I've just become adept at ignoring what the Devs write. ![]() |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Both the devs and AE authors do this, and there is no reason for it, and it ticks me off. Why do you have to write "you feel a chill?" I'm a robot, I don't feel chills. Why not write "it's cold in here?"
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Or you could just write in a way that works for 95% of the characters and let the outliers deal with it however they want rather than writing in the most sterile way possible.
While in theory you have a point, in practical terms, not so much.
Each successive change to the AE causes more and more arcs to become invalid, inactive accounts are not fixing their arcs to make them playable again, thus over time they add to the massive list we need to sift through without being actually PLAYABLE. So yes, lets toss out the old bathwater. Like anything else, the AE needs periodic maintenance. This is but one type. |
Even if an arc had been rendered invalid a returning player would expect it to still be there.
A good search GUI would solve the problem of abandoned, invalid arcs without irritating paying customers. Alternatively, they could code something that automatically unpublished invalid arcs until the authors modified them.
Junking arcs wholesale is just an awful idea.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Replying to various points, despite myself...really ought to just stop reading.
I think the Ray Cooling arc is cool for the mechanics and the new mission maps but about average as to the writing. |
The two Doppelganger arcs, however, have both cool mechanics and a very cool story that is executed extremely well. |
The disturbing thing is the arc creator tested this and ENJOYED how it turned out. Such malevolently sadistic construction does not lend itself to repetitive play. |
And they wonder why the developers forced the "Slow" option on the player in the Incarnate arc... |
I'm wondering if it would be possible/useful/fair to ditch arcs that haven't been PLAYED within the passage of a certain amount of time. |
Since there are literally hundreds of thousands of arcs, the vast majority aren't going to be played recently. Basically you're removing any which have had the bad luck to be overlooked. |
Junking arcs wholesale is just an awful idea. |
Or you could just write in a way that works for 95% of the characters and let the outliers deal with it however they want rather than writing in the most sterile way possible. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Conversely, the GM/author does get to describe the world, and trying to equate the former with "my character can't feel temperature/is color-blind/etc." is just being a horse's patootie.
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Saying that "Chilled" is wrong and "Cold" isn't is completely arbitrary. You're still "hijacking my private concept" when you tell me that my non-temperature sensing robot somehow knows that it's cold despite not having the ability to know that information.
I'm not surprised that you think that.
However, I think you are outnumbered by those who think the most recent story arcs (perhaps fewer in regard to the Alpha arc), think the arcs over the past few issues have been outstanding.