VanCorp
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For those considering DCUO, keep in mind it has nowhere near the superhero character depth of CoH, despite being in the DCU.
The character creator is extremely limited, you have to farm a vast majority of the styles in the game by grinding instances.
The combat is very much console fighting designed, with weapon combos and active blocking and combat rolling (dodging) being required. If you can't get good at that type of combat system, forget about the high-end Alerts and Raids at level 30 (the level cap, which you will hit in little over a week even on limited play time). Also keep in mind the interview John Smedley (President of SOE) did a few weeks ago that stated 70% of the DCUO playerbase is on the PS3. No, the PS3 and PC do not share servers.
The Game Update 18, that just came off of test and is scheduled to go LIVE soon, altered PvE combat so that NPCs now perform active blocks, dodges, block breakers, and interrupts against the players-- as though you were in PvP against another player. In my opinion after testing it on the Test Server, it made PvE much more tedious. I've walked away from the game in anticipation of GU 18.
As much as I am not a fan of Champions Online-- if you are migrating from CoH to either CO or DCUO, I would suggest Champions unless you are seeking a superhero MMO experience completely different from CoH in all regards, and are good at console style combat. -
Quote:Yeah, I saw that thread. Unfortunately, none of it comes from an actual official source. It is all pure speculation and conspiracy.Originally Posted by Circe
It was said in another thread that Cryptic jacked up the price for license renewal for the engine up so high that NCSoft was unwilling to pay it. Venting at Cryptic would be the appropriate thing. It wasn't a Paragon conspiracy. It was a corporate shanking.
Look, I am no fan of post-City of Heroes Cryptic. I played Champions for all of one week after it went F2P just give it a basic try, and found the world, missions, combat, and overall art style extremely bland and uninspired. Even the villain groups were boring. I know Champions RPG Lore, Cryptic could have done so much more with it, and didn't.
I have no love (or hate really) of Cryptic. But until something official is actually stated on the License pricing being the reason, I'm not tossing the blame anywhere.
If, and I say IF, City of Heroes was still profitable and NCSoft made this decision, there was definitely some underlying reason. Businesses aren't typically in the practice of shuttering profitable product lines. But unless the License or some other issues is the culprit, then the only other reason is CoH was no longer generating what it needed to.
And even if NCSoft ended-up making some off-the-wall decision for our game . . . as an above post said: I'm not going to punish the good people at ArenaNet for it. No, I haven't jumped on the GW2 bandwagon yet, but if reviews remain good the first 60-90 days post-launch, I do plan to get it. -
Quote:Do you have a source for this?Originally Posted by Dinah
No, Boycott ATARI.
Atari holds the license to the City of Heroes engine. Contract expires, Atari refuses to negotiate with NCSoft, NCSoft is forced to shut down Paragon Studios.
ATARI decided it would make more money from us as new subscribers to their games than from an ongoing license to a competitor's game. -
Quote:Yeah, that!Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Info? I don't want no stinkin' info.
I want the UPDATE!
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Quote:Well played. Very well played.Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Two thumbs up. -
Quote:You don't have to preach to me. I'm not here trying to push hard facts on financial bargaining. I was simply putting forth the top reason I have seen at other games' forums for people not being able to "afford" a LTS.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And that very lack of funds is exactly why many of us that are having trouble making ends meet will jump at the chance to grab a lifetime sub if it is offered.
If money wasn't tight we'd never even consider spending $200-$300 bucks on a video game. But money is tight, and we have trouble [paying our bills each month. We can't afford to go out and spend a lot of money on various entertainments, but if we can come up with the cash for a one time purchase of a lifetime sub that's $15 bucks we can put to better use each month and we never again have to worry about keeping our accounts active.
And if the game goes F2P we hit the jackpot because there is a very good chance that the game will be giving it's paying customers and lifetiome subbers free points in the games online store. A certain other super hero MMO has already paid me $37.50 in store credit since it's gone F2P and that's a year after my account would have expired if I had spent the money for the lifetime sub on a monthly subscription. So I've saved $179.88 in sub fees on top of the $37.50 store credit.
I have 6 out of 7 years here in CoH. I have 3 years in SWG (I gave them almost 7 months post-NGE to make me want to stay), and did about 3 years total in WoW (I came and went from that game a lot).Quote:Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Most if not all lifetime subs cost the same as a years subscription in advance. Now if you don't have enough faith that a game you like to play will be running a year later that's you business. I'm sorry to hear you feel that way.
So, back in the day, yeah . . . I stuck with a game.
Let's look at few releases in the past couple of years:
6 months in LoTRO
2 months in WAR
2 months in DCUO
They all looked good on the surface, but none of them compelled me to play for the long haul.
Currently, I have about 3 months in Champions Online, but have a "shrug" relationship with that game on certain levels, as well.
So, no, I won't purchase a Lifetime Subscription. Let's look at a few of them.
DCUO is $134.99 for 1 year, or roughly $11.25/mo. A lifetime is $199.99, which means that assuming the 1 year discounted price per month, I would have to play the game for about 17 months to break even. That is a length of time I could not imagine for playing in DCUO.
Champions Online only offers up to 6 months for $77.94, or 12.99/mo before the lifetime offer. A LTS is $299.99, or I would have to feel that the game offers me roughly 24 months of enjoyment. Not something I could say that CO could do, at the moment.
LoTRO I believe stopped offering it, but are currently discounting a 12-month membership down to $99.99 for a limited time.
No, none of that math is spot-on, but it makes the point I want to make about my relationship with the games that offer LTS.
Like I said, I have 6 years total in CoH. I like the game (obviously), but can I say I have even a year left in me for it? I don't know. I honestly don't. So, although Paragon has no plans to offer one anyway, even if they did-- I'd be unlikely to take advantage of it.
Given the general state of MMO releases in the past 6 years, I just can't imagine me buying a LTS and it being worth it in the end. And of the older games . . . well, I played them (usually a lot back then), and all things come to an eventual end. -
Quote:I play on Virtue. Sadly, I have accidentally encountered that of which you speak.Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Blame the players on Virtue. Have you any idea what they'd do with a /mount command?
I have never been mentally the same, since . . . . -
Quote:It isn't about the long-term bargain, it's about the short term output.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
What you don't think that MMO players that are on tight budgets don't look at Lifetime Subs as a way to minimize their monthly expenditures over the long run? Sure it's $200-$300 up front today but after a year they are playing for free. And when compared to the $1260 I've spent keeping this account active. Yeah I'll find a way to scrape together the cash for an LTS somehow.
Many MMO players simply look at LTS's as a bargain that only costs the same as a years sub.
I didn't say anything about them not seeing it as a bargain, I mentioned the average lack of funds to shell it out all at once. A point that has been mentioned by many at DCUO, CO, and LoTRO forums.
A point that seems to also be an actual practice, from the conversations I've had with different Devs. Not once have I heard during such conversations that Lifetime subs have out-numbered the recurring subs. What I have heard is the opposite.
Not saying CoH should have a LTS. All I am doing is stating evidence I have heard to the contrary of the LTS becoming problematic in relation to the revenue generated from the recurring subs.
I don't buy a LTS, myself. I just don't have that much faith in most MMO developers that I will enjoy the game that long-term anymore. -
Quote:Thanks for the heads-up. With the Devs choosing not to implement such a needed feature into the game, it shows how out of touch with the game they really are.Originally Posted by Von Krieger
-VIP's will not be able to ride free players as mounts
No sense paying them anymore. Going to cancel soon as I post this.
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I play in games with Lifetime Subs. Heck, I am lucky enough in my finances that I can afford them for both me and the wife (if I felt I would play said game long enough to warrant the investment-of-good-faith in the company).
However, there is really no need for restrictions based upon length of sub and so forth. I have developer friends at both Cryptic and Turbine (amongst a few other companies, thanks to those people also having businesses in the PnP RPG industry where I work as a publisher), and the ratio of Lifetime Subs purchased is far lower than the monthly subs.
The sheer reality of it is that not a ton of MMO players have the cash flow to just shell out $200- $300 on a lifetime subscription in one swoop. A cash flow that is made into much more of a cash trickle thanks to the economic landscape we are living in. -
I agree with you 100%, OP.
I've been in one or two other games that have gone F2P-Hybrid (LoTRO and CO, naturally), and while you get some idiots that tag along, I've seen a lot of good things happen.
To be honest, I've found more idiots and reasons not to play with the community in WoW and Rift, both full-on P2P games.
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Quote:I laughed . . . hard.Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
I have a good feeling it will be this:
The quest for the Spider Lantern will take you from the skyscrapers of Paragon City to a hidden jungle Arachnos base. It’s up to you to stop Lord Recluse from finding the lost Spider Lantern and uniting Arachnos for one deadly purpose.
The wife and I hate the Serpent Lantern adventure pack.
Heh. Why not. Demonflame was at least better than Serpent Lantern.Quote:Originally Posted by Crippl3
Well played.
Next we'll stop the CoT, lead by Darrin Wade for some reason, from building giant mystical towers in Atlas to bring back dead gods and absorb their power.
Of course, we already have Resistance . . . their copy of Praetoria without the ultra-cool factor. -
Quote:^^^^ This. Well said.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
The 'VIP' servers, to my mind, are the escape for all the Elitists and down-their-nose lookers who would just alienate genuine nice players and others and stop them adding to the game.
Good riddance, I say. I'll be waiting on Union to welcome the next batch of RPers. -
Quote:I left in April 2010 due to a new baby and only just returned on May 28th. In that time, I have (sadly) seen so much of your "A" and "C" in the game, and this is on my (always) server of choice: Virtue!Originally Posted by Stealth_Bomber
I worry that if I play on the F2P servers, I will (A) get trashed by rude people, (B) play with people who aren't very experienced or that interested in the game, or (C) only play with people who have a minimal commitment and will log out after the first team wipe: "this game sux kthnxby"
Two nights in a row, I got insulted in /tells and broadcast for asking for anyone who wanted to team-up to help with a mission that was, quite frankly, repeatedly kicking the tar out of me. The general responses were so insulting, I actually had memories of WoW all over again.
When I have been on a team, though it isn't due to wipes, I have not seen a single mission team stick together for more than 2 or 3 missions so far. Of course, this was a regular occurance before I left in 2010, so it hasn't changed in a year.
If anything, as a VIP, I think I will be avoiding the VIP-only server. At this point, I am looking forward to seeing some new blood in the game. Because after my experiences in the past 3 weeks, I was prepared to cancel CoH and simply nurture the fond memories of the community that used to be . . . .
Which is ironic, because my best friend of 21 years (I am 38, and he is 39 years old) had both started here in Beta, and both had to finally end for a time in early to mid 2010. Both of us came back, and both of us shared similar stories at my house the other night.
So, I can't imagine how F2P can be any worse than what we feel we came back to. -
Quote:You do realize, I assume, that between Marvel and DC they have over 9,000 trademarked characters . . . right?Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Not to be unsympathetic, but if someone managed to snag the name in between the time the last time the script was run and now, your attempts to get it couldn't have been that desperate.
Besides, a 30 second Google search shows me that name belongs to a Marvel character (albeit a minor one). If you ever did get it, you wouldn't keep it, the only reason it isn't on the list of names locked out due to copyright, is it is on an inactive character that hasn't been used since before they started the list.
Edit- Hell, another Google search shows me you're lucky to have Captain Midnight not taken from you. Even for names tied to very old characters, they tend to err on the side of caution.
And a name, itself, is not the trademark. There is more to it. However, such I.P. being a gray area at best even for the courts, it gets stickier on the "name" issue when you start playing with household recognizable names like Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Hulk, et cetera. -
Quote:*Nods* I understand.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It wasn't anything you did.
Lately, on the forums any time anyone brings up Incarnate stuff in a thread it seems to always devolve into an argument. It's been going of for the past several months. Since before yo came back, actually.
Tony's just frustrated that no one can talk about incarnate stuff without arguments ensuing, and it's coming through in the tone of his posts.
I'm frustrated with it too, but I'm trying not to be harsh unless I feel it's warranted. (I don't think I was harsh in this thread, but it's hard to tell how others will perceive what you say.)
I personally don't care about Incarnate Trials one way or the other-- except if they go too far in tying things non-Incarnate power related into them. Otherwise, when I finally get around to them, if I like them-- I'll continue them. If not, then it's back to the old way of playing.
I enjoy getting I/O sets, but I never went out and needed to set every power I had.
Not to say those that do so, are doing anything wrong. The wife and I just prefer to play through the mission arcs, and RP a little is all. Not too big on being the maximum power. It's one of those things that if we achieve it, cool; if we don't, no huge loss to us. -
Quote:Personally, as the OP, I haven't heard any real bickering in this thread. And the topic of the trials was originally started by me in my own thread, as it was a very minor concern for me and the wife.Originally Posted by TonyV
...And thus another perfectly good thread gets ruined.
Couldn't we have just left it at, "Welcome back!" and post thoughts and/or complaints about the trials in one of the other two or three flamefests? Basically, any mention of trials or "raids" is an open invitation for a post to be threadjacked by one of 10 or so people.
Oh well, welcome back. Now let the inevitable bickering continue...
So, sorry if it bothered you, but the trials were a small part of our returning concerns. I started the conversation in my original post, not someone else. Your reply seems much more angry than the rest of the thread. Just want to point that out.
And everyone has been very helpful.
The wife and I haven't tried the trials yet, but not due to any negative perceptions. It's simply been because our 50's are on hiatus as we've been playing through Praetoria right now. Eventually we'll get to them. Hearing that they take about 40 minutes to actually go through (once you assemble the group) is nice. Heck, even 90 minutes would be okay. We well remember Task Forces that took longer, and our first run through the Statesman TF took almost 4 hours.Quote:Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Welcome back.
And from someone else who was very wary of trials, I'll say you might be pleasantly surprised.
They aren't really comparable to "raids" in other games, and the devs seemed to be true to the "lite" approach that's served them well in other parts of the game (crafting-lite, market-lite, raid-lite). Most of the benefit from incarnatedom lies in the lowest-hanging fruit, so casuals can get a sizable chunk of awesome with minimal effort.
I'm not a fan of level-locking costumes, but the incarnate pieces seem so distinctive and stylized that they don't really come across as something that would be character-defining. As a new player, I'd be more upset at the costume locks on things like Samurai armor vet reward or trenchcoats than I would be about the Incarnate pieces. Those are more character-defining elements that you might want from level 1. Heck, I'd even have more issue with the "unlocked" weapon items. If I wanted a hero whose powers manifest from his magical Rularuu sword, I don't want to have to use a placeholder for X levels until I unlock it. These pieces? Maybe its just because I'm hard pressed to figure out how and why to use any of them, but I can live with the wait. They're trophies.
Anyway, that's probably a topic for a different thread. Glad to see you and the missus are back. Good to have you around. Have fun.
As far as the Incarnate costume locks . . . I misread the Dev post. I thought it was the normal Capes and Aura's they were doing them with. Once I was corrected that it was new cape-styles and aura-types, it stopped bothering me completely. I'm not the type of player to buy every "Theme Pack" that they put out, either. So, I'm not too worried about having all the styles. -
Quote:Oh. I missed the the part about it being a new set of each, and not a "general unlock".Originally Posted by reiella
The vouchers aren't a general unlock of capes and auras like the level 20 and 30 missions are. The vouchers are an unlock of a set of new capes and auras.
There are many other unlocks that open up some capes and auras at earlier levels now. Most of them from microtransactions or psuedo microtransactions [CEs, Mac Special Editions, Booster Packs] and one from a veterancy reward [21 month].
More broadly, your issue still stands in relevance to the costume pieces in general, just I don't think it's anything special with the capes/auras on top of the costume unlock issue.
Disregard my post on the matter as tied to trials (though I still wonder about capes remaining a level 20 unlock, in general, at this point in time).
Maybe Edna Mole secretly has something to do with that.
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My main point wasn't the trial being the focal point of unlocking Incarnate abilities, but (and maybe I completely misread the other post, elsewhere at the forums), tying in the ability to obtain vouchers to use to unlock capes and auras on your other characters at level 1, into the Incarnate trials.
Why tie that into the trials? Why make it raid dependent when:
1) The Vets of CoH have been loyal, and obviously aren't "raiders" per se, or they would have been playing WoW, EQ2, et cetera.
2) Not everyone that plays CoH has the hardware to run a trial and not lagfest. Unlike your average fantasy game, once you toss in all the power effects of CoH, the larger groups are far more hardware taxing by comparison.
Now, on an unrelated point/idea: given that capes were done the way they were because (originally) they couldn't get them in at launch due to animation issues with the game engine-- it's been 7 years. Not only has it been long enough, but the Lore (Hero-1 tribute) can be moved past now that he's returned in his current form in the RWZ stuff.
I would prefer they just make the level 1 unlock a Vet reward (even though I am a year behind on them, and might not qualify yet, myself); or just make them part of the creator. I hate to bring in other games, as I enjoy CoH far more, but even CO and DCUO just have capes in the basic creator.
It's been 7 years. Why not, by this point? I mean, they already went as far as to drop Epic ATs from level 50, to level 20 unlock. Are capes and auras really that special anymore? -
Fortunately, we each only have one Level 50 we might want to become Incarnate because it fits their stories, but we're in no rush to unlock the stuff.
More than likely, we'll run the content just to do it, but I doubt we'll grind it or worry about it too much. After all, we didn't "chase the gear" in DCUO or WoW at any point, either. Just isn't our play style.
So, I can definitely say that the carrot-on-a-stick of the Incarnate system isn't going to be a deciding factor on us playing CoH, or how long we do before taking a break. As always, it will be our characters and the "old school" play that we did for 6-years.
We are, without a doubt, not the target demographic for any "raid content". If we were, we would not have been here for 6 years. But, CoH has plenty of other stuff to do.
With how they are trying to tie so much new stuff into the "raid system", though, I'm getting the feeling that Paragon Studios has lost touch with what's made their game a success for 7 years. Take a lesson from SOE-- don't disregard your loyal player base just to chase after the mythical "new players". Players that a majority of the time, are like trying to grab mist.
It's a new system, though. So hopefully the Devs get it out of their own system sooner, rather than later. -
Very good. Thanks for the help.
Yep, we always did have a heck of a community.
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Okay, last time we played was April 2010, before the new baby was born.
So, now that we are back and playing in Praetoria . . .
What determines where you go (Rogue Isles or Paragon City) when you finish with the 20 levels of content?
The wife and I always like to duo our characters (when not teaming with others), and would hate to make choices that suddenly see us on different sides until one of us could go through the morality shift. -
Quote:Will do. We do plan to experience them first hand, we just haven't brushed off our 50's yet. Been leveling Preatorians.Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Welcome back. Make sure to pop over and visit the former Euro servers, where we have tea and strange vocabulary :-)
Also, re: Incarnate content. I would really suggest approaching it with an open mind, and at least trying out the new trials. I've found them to be a lot of fun, in and of themselves, without even worrying about the Incarnate powers. The devs really seem to be focusing on making the new content flavourful, fast and action-packed. -
Ooooooh! While I knew about the wiki and the hero builder (though back when I used it in 2007 or so, it might have been from someone else), the wife is a badge junkie and is very appreciative of the badge maps.
Thanks! -
Quote:Interesting choice of wording.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Welcome home
I commented in broadcast today that as far as MMO's go, returning to CoH feels just like coming home.