Quote:
Interesting choice of wording. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Welcome home
 |
I commented in broadcast today that as far as MMO's go, returning to CoH feels just like coming home.
Okay, standard links to help make things better.
Paragonwiki: If you want to know about something in the game, it's here. Period. THE reference for the game.
Mid's Hero Designer: An absolutely ROCKIN' tool for planning out builds ahead of time. Play around as much as you want and never waste inf. The standard format for sharing builds on the boards.
Titan Sentinel: A nice little tool for tying into the Titan City Info Terminal project at http://cit.cohtitan.com. But the MUST HAVE feature of this program is that it allows you to actually export your LIVE build from the game into Mids. Even if you don't use CIT, this is more than enough reason to create an account and download this program.
Vidiot Maps: A nifty map overlay that's critical for badge hunters. Direct link to the Sourceforge Page.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Ooooooh! While I knew about the wiki and the hero builder (though back when I used it in 2007 or so, it might have been from someone else), the wife is a badge junkie and is very appreciative of the badge maps.
Thanks!
Welcome back. Make sure to pop over and visit the former Euro servers, where we have tea and strange vocabulary :-)
Also, re: Incarnate content. I would really suggest approaching it with an open mind, and at least trying out the new trials. I've found them to be a lot of fun, in and of themselves, without even worrying about the Incarnate powers. The devs really seem to be focusing on making the new content flavourful, fast and action-packed.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Quote:
No problem.
|
Originally Posted by VanCorp
Ooooooh! While I knew about the wiki and the hero builder (though back when I used it in 2007 or so, it might have been from someone else), the wife is a badge junkie and is very appreciative of the badge maps.
Thanks! |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Will do. We do plan to experience them first hand, we just haven't brushed off our 50's yet. Been leveling Preatorians.
|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Welcome back. Make sure to pop over and visit the former Euro servers, where we have tea and strange vocabulary :-)
Also, re: Incarnate content. I would really suggest approaching it with an open mind, and at least trying out the new trials. I've found them to be a lot of fun, in and of themselves, without even worrying about the Incarnate powers. The devs really seem to be focusing on making the new content flavourful, fast and action-packed. |
Welcome Back! Shame we already hit Virtue on our AEnvasion or we'd hit you up to join us.
Incarnates are fun, but require a bit of time and unfortunately since it's still in early phase... a need to repeat the same content.
Anyhoo... just wanna say "Welcome Home" as well!
Quote:
This sums up my view of the incarnate system (particularly post-Alpha) perfectly. Basically, to me, it's a grind. I'm not saying the rewards aren't there, but that the time investment can be great.|
Originally Posted by SupaFreak
Welcome Back! Shame we already hit Virtue on our AEnvasion or we'd hit you up to join us.
Incarnates are fun, but require a bit of time and unfortunately since it's still in early phase... a need to repeat the same content. Anyhoo... just wanna say "Welcome Home" as well! |
However, as others have pointed out, if you're only planning on making a couple of characters incarnates, it's not as if you're not going to have time to go to work, feed the baby, etc.
Unfotunately, I am one of those fools who would like to have all my characters 'incarnated', hence my 'grind' perception. What I have found helpful, though, is cycling through my characters. For example, on a weekend, I might run several trials, but a maximum of two on a single character. As I'm usually employing different powers and strategies on each run, it doesn't make me feel like I want to start drinking to dull the pain. It doesn't completely address the 'oh, dear, here we go... again' perception, but it does make it a little more tolerable.
Welcome back, and leave your money on the fridge (Australian term of affection, I promise!).
Fortunately, we each only have one Level 50 we might want to become Incarnate because it fits their stories, but we're in no rush to unlock the stuff.
More than likely, we'll run the content just to do it, but I doubt we'll grind it or worry about it too much. After all, we didn't "chase the gear" in DCUO or WoW at any point, either. Just isn't our play style.
So, I can definitely say that the carrot-on-a-stick of the Incarnate system isn't going to be a deciding factor on us playing CoH, or how long we do before taking a break. As always, it will be our characters and the "old school" play that we did for 6-years.
We are, without a doubt, not the target demographic for any "raid content". If we were, we would not have been here for 6 years. But, CoH has plenty of other stuff to do.
With how they are trying to tie so much new stuff into the "raid system", though, I'm getting the feeling that Paragon Studios has lost touch with what's made their game a success for 7 years. Take a lesson from SOE-- don't disregard your loyal player base just to chase after the mythical "new players". Players that a majority of the time, are like trying to grab mist.
It's a new system, though. So hopefully the Devs get it out of their own system sooner, rather than later.
Quote:
Well said, well said.| With how they are trying to tie so much new stuff into the "raid system", though, I'm getting the feeling that Paragon Studios has lost touch with what's made their game a success for 7 years. Take a lesson from SOE-- don't disregard your loyal player base just to chase after the mythical "new players". Players that a majority of the time, are like trying to grab mist. |
I'm concerned about this as well. I've played UO, SWG, EQ, EQ2 and WoW myself. I saw one common thing that I hope never to see here - making early content obsolete by adding new content. That (to me) is what divides the community more than anything and pushes me away.
I feel the "best way" to advance in the Incarnate system "should be" the Trials and such... but not the "only" way. Just because I have more free time or a better graphics card than my friends, do not think I will choose "trials" over "friends". Thankfully, they are short and bite-sized... but Incarnate XP unlocks so slowly on them and I'm not rich enough to pay to unlock them on all my 50s. So, for now, I'm passing on anything beyond Alpha at this point.
Ack, I'm ranting...
Anyhoo, just sharing my sentiments...
PEACE!
Quote:
I think it has more to do with the fact that they can't do everything Incarnate related all at once, and they looked at it like "Okay, we have several things we can do, what does this game NOT have yet that we can throw in there first?" |
Originally Posted by VanCorp
With how they are trying to tie so much new stuff into the "raid system", though, I'm getting the feeling that Paragon Studios has lost touch with what's made their game a success for 7 years. Take a lesson from SOE-- don't disregard your loyal player base just to chase after the mythical "new players". Players that a majority of the time, are like trying to grab mist.
It's a new system, though. So hopefully the Devs get it out of their own system sooner, rather than later. |
We have solo content, we have Task Forces, we didn't really have any multiple team stuff that isn't as time consuming as Hamidon or the ship raid, so that was the first thing they worked on.
I'm not expecting the incarnate trials to be the ONLY Incarnate content we ever get, but I am expecting the devs to work on them first, simply because it is something new to the game.
My complaint with the people who are griping that we don't have solo incarnate content yet is based in the fact that it really has not been all that long since the incarnate trials were introduced. Going Rogue has only been live since August, and the incarnate trials have only been live since February. In the grand scheme of things, that is not that long.
All I can really say is try the trials out for yourself and see what you think of them. I was apprehensive about them myself, after hearing horror stories of what raids are like in other games. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that they are NOTHING like what I heard a raid was like. They take 30-45 minutes, tops. And unlike raids in other games, where if you fail you wasted 5 hours for nothing, you can still get rewards even though you failed it, so a failed trial isn't a complete waste of time. They are MUCH more casual than any raid I've ever heard of in other games.
Paragon hasn't lost touch with what made their game successful. They made these trials as casual as they possibly CAN make them. It's not "hardcore raiding" it's "raiding, CoH style"
Above all else: Don't be in a hurry to get your characters to tier 4 right NOW. If you take your time with it and do the trials when you feel like doing them, instead of grinding them out of impatience to get the next piece, you will have a lot more fun with them. I do maybe 2-3 trials a week, if that, and I'm still having a blast with them, simply because I'm not sitting there running them over and over and over and over.
That's a large part of why people are upset about them, they rushed to get all their characters all the way slotted up and burned themselves out on the trials.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
My main point wasn't the trial being the focal point of unlocking Incarnate abilities, but (and maybe I completely misread the other post, elsewhere at the forums), tying in the ability to obtain vouchers to use to unlock capes and auras on your other characters at level 1, into the Incarnate trials.
Why tie that into the trials? Why make it raid dependent when:
1) The Vets of CoH have been loyal, and obviously aren't "raiders" per se, or they would have been playing WoW, EQ2, et cetera.
2) Not everyone that plays CoH has the hardware to run a trial and not lagfest. Unlike your average fantasy game, once you toss in all the power effects of CoH, the larger groups are far more hardware taxing by comparison.
Now, on an unrelated point/idea: given that capes were done the way they were because (originally) they couldn't get them in at launch due to animation issues with the game engine-- it's been 7 years. Not only has it been long enough, but the Lore (Hero-1 tribute) can be moved past now that he's returned in his current form in the RWZ stuff.
I would prefer they just make the level 1 unlock a Vet reward (even though I am a year behind on them, and might not qualify yet, myself); or just make them part of the creator. I hate to bring in other games, as I enjoy CoH far more, but even CO and DCUO just have capes in the basic creator.
It's been 7 years. Why not, by this point? I mean, they already went as far as to drop Epic ATs from level 50, to level 20 unlock. Are capes and auras really that special anymore?
Quote:
The vouchers aren't a general unlock of capes and auras like the level 20 and 30 missions are. The vouchers are an unlock of a set of new capes and auras.|
Originally Posted by VanCorp
It's been 7 years. Why not, by this point? I mean, they already went as far as to drop Epic ATs from level 50, to level 20 unlock. Are capes and auras really that special anymore?
|
There are many other unlocks that open up some capes and auras at earlier levels now. Most of them from microtransactions or psuedo microtransactions [CEs, Mac Special Editions, Booster Packs] and one from a veterancy reward [21 month].
More broadly, your issue still stands in relevance to the costume pieces in general, just I don't think it's anything special with the capes/auras on top of the costume unlock issue.
Let's Dance!
Quote:
Oh. I missed the the part about it being a new set of each, and not a "general unlock".|
Originally Posted by reiella
The vouchers aren't a general unlock of capes and auras like the level 20 and 30 missions are. The vouchers are an unlock of a set of new capes and auras.
There are many other unlocks that open up some capes and auras at earlier levels now. Most of them from microtransactions or psuedo microtransactions [CEs, Mac Special Editions, Booster Packs] and one from a veterancy reward [21 month]. More broadly, your issue still stands in relevance to the costume pieces in general, just I don't think it's anything special with the capes/auras on top of the costume unlock issue. |
Disregard my post on the matter as tied to trials (though I still wonder about capes remaining a level 20 unlock, in general, at this point in time).
Maybe Edna Mole secretly has something to do with that.
Quote:
...And thus another perfectly good thread gets ruined.|
Originally Posted by VanCorp
With how they are trying to tie so much new stuff into the "raid system", though, I'm getting the feeling that Paragon Studios has lost touch with what's made their game a success for 7 years. Take a lesson from SOE-- don't disregard your loyal player base just to chase after the mythical "new players". Players that a majority of the time, are like trying to grab mist.
|
Couldn't we have just left it at, "Welcome back!" and post thoughts and/or complaints about the trials in one of the other two or three flamefests? Basically, any mention of trials or "raids" is an open invitation for a post to be threadjacked by one of 10 or so people.
Oh well, welcome back. Now let the inevitable bickering continue...
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Quote:
The topic of running trials/raiding, unfortunately, is the 'hot topic' of 'City'. I don't think that's going to change for quite some time as, apart from some QoL improvements (e.g. AoE buffing) that seems to be what the devs are devoting resources to. I'm sure if the devs announce a new TF/SF, or change an existing one (e.g. make ITF a 50-only affair), that would most likely be a hot topic.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
...And thus another perfectly good thread gets ruined.
Couldn't we have just left it at, "Welcome back!" and post thoughts and/or complaints about the trials in one of the other two or three flamefests? Basically, any mention of trials or "raids" is an open invitation for a post to be threadjacked by one of 10 or so people. Oh well, welcome back. Now let the inevitable bickering continue... |
Compared to some other threads, I'd argue this one has been calm and relatively bicker-free. The OP did mention running trials as something they'd rather not do a lot of - I think others are entitled to raise their opinion in response to that (either in agreeance or dispute), but there has been, from I've seen, little flaming going on.
Maybe I'm just biased...
I should clarify something - I know there will be new incarnate costume pieces etc in 20.5 - these are still linked to the incarnate system. So when I say that the devs are devoting resources to trials/raids, it's because it's all tied up in that overarching system.
And I'm not trying to be argumentative, even though it might seem that way.
Quote:
Welcome back.|
Originally Posted by SlackTech
I should clarify something - I know there will be new incarnate costume pieces etc in 20.5 - these are still linked to the incarnate system. So when I say that the devs are devoting resources to trials/raids, it's because it's all tied up in that overarching system.
And I'm not trying to be argumentative, even though it might seem that way. |
And from someone else who was very wary of trials, I'll say you might be pleasantly surprised.
They aren't really comparable to "raids" in other games, and the devs seemed to be true to the "lite" approach that's served them well in other parts of the game (crafting-lite, market-lite, raid-lite). Most of the benefit from incarnatedom lies in the lowest-hanging fruit, so casuals can get a sizable chunk of awesome with minimal effort.
I'm not a fan of level-locking costumes, but the incarnate pieces seem so distinctive and stylized that they don't really come across as something that would be character-defining. As a new player, I'd be more upset at the costume locks on things like Samurai armor vet reward or trenchcoats than I would be about the Incarnate pieces. Those are more character-defining elements that you might want from level 1. Heck, I'd even have more issue with the "unlocked" weapon items. If I wanted a hero whose powers manifest from his magical Rularuu sword, I don't want to have to use a placeholder for X levels until I unlock it. These pieces? Maybe its just because I'm hard pressed to figure out how and why to use any of them, but I can live with the wait. They're trophies.
Anyway, that's probably a topic for a different thread. Glad to see you and the missus are back. Good to have you around. Have fun.
Quote:
Personally, as the OP, I haven't heard any real bickering in this thread. And the topic of the trials was originally started by me in my own thread, as it was a very minor concern for me and the wife.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
...And thus another perfectly good thread gets ruined.
Couldn't we have just left it at, "Welcome back!" and post thoughts and/or complaints about the trials in one of the other two or three flamefests? Basically, any mention of trials or "raids" is an open invitation for a post to be threadjacked by one of 10 or so people. Oh well, welcome back. Now let the inevitable bickering continue... |
So, sorry if it bothered you, but the trials were a small part of our returning concerns. I started the conversation in my original post, not someone else. Your reply seems much more angry than the rest of the thread. Just want to point that out.
And everyone has been very helpful.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Welcome back.
And from someone else who was very wary of trials, I'll say you might be pleasantly surprised. They aren't really comparable to "raids" in other games, and the devs seemed to be true to the "lite" approach that's served them well in other parts of the game (crafting-lite, market-lite, raid-lite). Most of the benefit from incarnatedom lies in the lowest-hanging fruit, so casuals can get a sizable chunk of awesome with minimal effort. I'm not a fan of level-locking costumes, but the incarnate pieces seem so distinctive and stylized that they don't really come across as something that would be character-defining. As a new player, I'd be more upset at the costume locks on things like Samurai armor vet reward or trenchcoats than I would be about the Incarnate pieces. Those are more character-defining elements that you might want from level 1. Heck, I'd even have more issue with the "unlocked" weapon items. If I wanted a hero whose powers manifest from his magical Rularuu sword, I don't want to have to use a placeholder for X levels until I unlock it. These pieces? Maybe its just because I'm hard pressed to figure out how and why to use any of them, but I can live with the wait. They're trophies. Anyway, that's probably a topic for a different thread. Glad to see you and the missus are back. Good to have you around. Have fun. |
As far as the Incarnate costume locks . . . I misread the Dev post. I thought it was the normal Capes and Aura's they were doing them with. Once I was corrected that it was new cape-styles and aura-types, it stopped bothering me completely. I'm not the type of player to buy every "Theme Pack" that they put out, either. So, I'm not too worried about having all the styles.
Quote:
It wasn't anything you did.|
Originally Posted by VanCorp
Personally, as the OP, I haven't heard any real bickering in this thread. And the topic of the trials was originally started by me in my own thread, as it was a very minor concern for me and the wife.
So, sorry if it bothered you, but the trials were a small part of our returning concerns. I started the conversation in my original post, not someone else. Your reply seems much more angry than the rest of the thread. Just want to point that out. And everyone has been very helpful. |
Lately, on the forums any time anyone brings up Incarnate stuff in a thread it seems to always devolve into an argument. It's been going of for the past several months. Since before yo came back, actually.
Tony's just frustrated that no one can talk about incarnate stuff without arguments ensuing, and it's coming through in the tone of his posts.
I'm frustrated with it too, but I'm trying not to be harsh unless I feel it's warranted. (I don't think I was harsh in this thread, but it's hard to tell how others will perceive what you say.)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
*Nods* I understand.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It wasn't anything you did.
Lately, on the forums any time anyone brings up Incarnate stuff in a thread it seems to always devolve into an argument. It's been going of for the past several months. Since before yo came back, actually. Tony's just frustrated that no one can talk about incarnate stuff without arguments ensuing, and it's coming through in the tone of his posts. I'm frustrated with it too, but I'm trying not to be harsh unless I feel it's warranted. (I don't think I was harsh in this thread, but it's hard to tell how others will perceive what you say.) |
I personally don't care about Incarnate Trials one way or the other-- except if they go too far in tying things non-Incarnate power related into them. Otherwise, when I finally get around to them, if I like them-- I'll continue them. If not, then it's back to the old way of playing.
I enjoy getting I/O sets, but I never went out and needed to set every power I had.
Not to say those that do so, are doing anything wrong. The wife and I just prefer to play through the mission arcs, and RP a little is all. Not too big on being the maximum power. It's one of those things that if we achieve it, cool; if we don't, no huge loss to us.
Well, after being here for roughly 6 years before departing last April (due to a new baby and heavy workload with my company), the Going Rogue sale at Steam convinced the wife and I to return and see how the game is now. Life has gotten to the point we can spare a little time for an MMO again, and CoH was always our favorite.
While I've voiced my opinion of what the Devs are doing with the Incarmate system in another thread (we're less than thrilled with it), the rest of the new additions we like. Not sure how much we'll participate in Incarnate, but it wasn't here the last time we played, so we'll just ignore it if we ultimately choose to, sidekick down, roll more Alts, play Architect stories, and so forth.
Still plenty of options.
Overall, happy to be back, and back on Virtue. Look forward to meeting some new friends in-game.