Soloing EBs, AVs and GMs. Your thoughts.

The other night I decided to polish off Ghost Widows arcs with my DM/DA brute. She'd been sitting in my contacts list for a year and a half and figured I'd pay her a visit.

At this point I'm playing on -1/x0 as I want to enjoy the arc without the hassle of dying. So I breeze through the missions until I reach the point where I have to fight Ghost Widow herself. She spawned as an EB. Now I've soloed a few EBs in my time with my brute. Tough fights to be sure. I've even tanked an EB Baracuda plus ambush mobs (Lts and minions) simultaneously during the GW patron arc. My brute has had his moments of epic. That being said he's had his moments of utter fail too. However, the fight in question wasn't one of them, but almost was. I beat her...just, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

To the best of my knowledge EBs were the absolute limit of what player characters were supposed to be capable of soloing. AVs and GMs, being the sacks of HP they are, were designed to require teaming. However, whatever the devs intentions, this isn't the case. I'm well aware that there are toons capable of soloing EBs with ease, there are some that can solo AVs, and even a rare few that solo GMs. Of course YMMV depending on the toon and the EB/AV/GM in question. Personally I like the idea that your toon can be that powerful, but I also know that it takes alot of work. The vast majority of players don't appear to bother, which is perfectly fine. I on the other hand want my toon to at least be able to solo EBs.

The Incarnate system may change things. From info I've seen on it thus far it seems that should you slot all 10 I-slots with enhancements with a level shift component, Lvl 54 AVs would con white. The implication being that 10-slotted incarnates should be able to solo AVs comfortably. Of course this is conjecture and we won't know for certain till more info becomes available.

So, my questions to you are;

1. Do you favour the idea of being able to solo EBs/AVs/GMs, if so/not, why?

2. Have you ever soloed an EB/AV/GM, and if so how did you feel afterward?

3. Do you think the dynamic will change after the implementation of the Incarnate system?

4. Whatever else you wish to add.

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We already know that Incarnate abilities won't scale below level 50 so you lose them if you exemp down. Given this, there's a good chance that they won't even apply to existing content.

So, my questions to you are;

1. Do you favour the idea of being able to solo EBs/AVs/GMs, if so/not, why?
To be able to solo EBs/AVs/GMs you need 3 things.

1) High suriviability. This is can be from -tohit, +def, +res, -dmg, pretty much in combination of those. This is so you can take a hit when a hit lands.

2) High -regen and damage. This is to counter the AVs/GMs high regen rates. EBs its not as required, and for some AVs, -regen doesn't help that much, but it is useful. -regen is definately what you need to be able to solo GMs. Damage isn't required as much as the -regen is, as you can debuff a EB/AV/GM down to 0% regen, and whittle it down with brawl if you really wanted to. Damage just makes things faster, which brings us to point 3

3) Patience. This is key. AVs/GMs are big bags of hitpoints. Meaning you can't really burst them down. Some EBs are the same way, but most can be burst down within 1 or two inspiration cycles (1 or 2 minutes if you will)

As long as you have all 3 of the above things, i see no problem with being able to solo EBs/AVs/GMs.

2. Have you ever soloed an EB/AV/GM, and if so how did you feel afterward?
I've solo'ed every single EB/AV/GM available villain side that doesn't require a task force. I've duo'ed every single EB/AV/GM that does require a task force. This was all on my bot/traps MM, and I felt great the first few times. After the novelity wore off, it just became 'whats my limit' and pushing things like soloing multiple EBs/AV or going after the AoE happy GMs (deathsurge, I'm looking at you) I still solo things pretty regularly, but its mainly to see if i can still do it, as i play that character about once a month now.

3. Do you think the dynamic will change after the implementation of the Incarnate system?
I think the dynamic will stay about the same. As long as you have the 3 main things i already mentioned, you'll do just fine. Incarnates may make it easier, or faster, but it won't change the overall dynamic. AV/GMs will still be big bags of hitpoints with high regen values, and EBs will still spawn at basic difficulty.

4. Whatever else you wish to add.
As long as new content is made more enjoyable, the difficulty can be downplayed. People love the ITF, yet when it was first created, it was called 'impossible' due to the mechanic of the fluff balls. Now, its a piece of cake for just about any group of people, and some have even solo'ed the entire thing. Big bags of hitpoints aren't as much fun as they used to be, so there has to be more to it then just adding more hitpoints to the equation.

1: Yes. EBs should be fairly easily soloable, that's why AVs scale down when you're solo. Building characters to be able to take on AVs and GMs is an endgame to some people. As long as it isn't trivial to be able to do it (and it currently isn't), it should remain possible.

2: Several. My first was Hro'Dotz, because I was in the arc at the time. It was a "yay, now I'm a cool kid too" moment. I beat up a few Praetorians after that, but really all I wanted was a crack at my favorite AV, the Kronos Titan (the one in the final mission of Crimson's arc, not the GM ambush. I can't beat a GM's regen, although I did tank him solo while I put together a team to kill him.) It took three or four tries, but I won. That was a sense of accomplishment, not just because he was tougher than the others, but because, well, I beat up a giant robot. I haven't bothered with any other AVs since, although if a new really cool one is introduced I will probably try to solo it.

3. Who's to say you'll be able to put a level bump enhancement in every slot? I certainly hope the incarnate system doesn't completely trivialize existing content. Just because I want new content for my incarnates doesn't mean I want them to be essentially excluded from existing content due to boredom.

4. Giant robots are cool and we need more of them. The ones we have should be available in MA as AVs, not just as GMs. So should all the new ones. That way, they can scale down to EBs and everybody can go fight giant robots.

Also, the devs should stop trying to make each AV/EB harder than the ones that came before. People looking to be challenged by these guys can always try to solo or duo them as AVs, or turn their difficulty up. People whose builds aren't so strong though, maybe they just want to finish their arc without begging for help with an EB that hits like a truck, has PToDs, and hits a tier 9 just when you've almost won and are almost out of inspirations. Also, the devs need to realize that not every arc needs an AV. Not even at level 40+. Also, giant sacks of too many HP are never fun, tone down Reichsman already.

With Neruon, Bobcat and Battle Maiden being the AVs on the new TFs in I19, I'm assuming they're going to be boosted in some way, as they're not even the toughest AVs for non-Incarnates.

from what i experienced EBs are quite easy for the most part and the few that are annoying/tougher are usually downgraded AVs

i havent personally solo'd any AVs, but i have duo'd AVs of many types and lvls (me and my friend have duo'd LRSF a few times and ITF) but thats about the extent

as for incarnate stuff changing things, i dont know yet, it depends on how much more powerful it does make it, if its just minor enhances then it wont be that exciting other than being stronger than the average joe

I personally enjoy the concept of being just as powerful as the signature characters. Standing toe-to-toe with the likes of Ms Liberty, Captain Mako and Requiem has a very epic feel to it. Unlike men, all of our toons are created equal, and it's up to the player to invest enough time and effort in his character to be as powerful as the most powerful NPC's. Same thing applies for GMs, except people usually don't believe you when you tell them that you soloed Lusca with your Defender using no temps and no insps

I don't think Giant Monsters should be soloable.
I'm surprised that they are apparently. I'd always though that a solo character could never do enough damage to overcome their regen.

But anyway. EBs should be soloable if you're built right. AVs should only be soloable if you're min/max'd to the extreme.

Also, on a different tack than my last two posts, I want to add that none of that accounts for the Rock Paper Scissors factor. If you design every AV/EB/GM to be equally strong against all varieties of AT, you essentially make all of them the same. It shouldn't be done.

I have had only one problem soloing any EBs on my Nin/Storm MM, and that was BaB before I got my IO sets. Post 35, I have had no problems and have helped several people take down EBs. Should I be able to do this? I think yes. In many comics, the Hero faces opponets that are more powerful then they are and end up winning. This is the perfect fit for EBs.

AVs on the other hand, should be much more difficult. I don't know if I could take an AV. But I would put it to the test, depending on the terrain. Freezing Rain has a tendency to make the run willy nilly all over. Again, this boils down to certain heros being able to overcome insurmountable odds to triumph.

GMs should be a group thing only. I don't think any single hero should be able to take on a Gm. A friend and I tryed to solo Scrapyard this weekend for giggles. Went well till he hit me.

1. Depending on the build and confidence level of the player, I don't have a problem with people soloing EB's. AV's should always require a team as should GM's.

2. I have soloed nearly, if not all of the Praetorians (except for Siege) on my Scrapper. Personally, I say that gave him a badass aura of power.

3. I don't think I will be playing any differently once the Incarnate System hits. I will still solo EB's and leave AV's and GM's to the teams.

I enjoy soloing EBs.. I'm like you when I solo I am usually at normal levels so I don't die frequently. Of course it does depend on the AT.. I have soloed EBs with Tanks, Scrappers, Brutes and even some with my SoA Crab. No way I want to try soloing most EBs with my Controllers or Blasters. LOL My proudest soling accomplishment is with my MA/Regen scrapper.. she soled all of the praetorian villains in Maria's arc

I feel the way most here seem to.. I know there are players out there that have invested the time and BILLIONS in INF to IO out their characters and can solo AVs and GMs but its just not something I feel a need to accomplish. More power to them but I like trying out new power sets and combinations and have close to 40 characters on Virtue.. I use my Influence to fund a small army not one ULTRA Hero. :-D Plus I love to team and AV and GM battles are a lot of fun so why solo when you can assemble a small group and make the AV beg for mercy?

I have considered duoing some AVs just to see how my partner and I would make out. We team up with our DS/DM masterminds and pretty much breeze through missions with a EB in it.... might be fun to up the challenge and take on an AV.. also a good bit more Infamy involved that way. :-D

1. I feel that elite bosses should be considered peers to your character in terms of power.

2. Elite Bosses regularly on melee characters. I have taken down Ms. Liberty as a Hero-rank on my Thugs/Poison before, and I was slightly disgusted that that was possible with just SOs, but obviously proud of myself.

3. Possibly, but I don't know whether for better or worse.

4. I hate soloing EBs on ranged characters other than masterminds. Also on stalkers.

I also play at -1/x0 but I am old (62) and don't consider myself to be an expert player, cetainly not a min/max'er. My goal since I re-enrolled in August (after a 3 year AWOL from the game) was to entirely solo a DM/WP Brute from Nova Praetoria to Grandville (L50) while completing as many story arcs as possible. Mission accomplished with only 3 L50 arcs to complete and 1 of those is Dark Watcher's Vanguard arc.
Soloing EB's was something I had to learn to do from scratch. Last time I played, AV's were not downgraded and IO's were a fantasy. But, learn on the job I did and managed to solo all the EB's but 2 early on (used auto-complete for those). I wanted a relaxing experience but the EB's were not relaxing for me. During an EB encounter, my hands start shaking so badly I often forget my key sequence. Somehow, I did manage to beat all those suckers.

So, to answer your question, Yes, I think all EB's should soloable. However, the upper level arcs do seem to have too many of them. I haven't unlocked it yet but Viridion's arc seems like it would be a nightmare for the solo player.

Dark Widow and her arcs were, IMHO, the most enjoyable arcs I played. I seem to recall having no problem beating her down. Lord Recluse, however, at EB level, was tough and I had to outlevel the mission by 3 to finally take him down.

My feeling after an EB fight is, whew, glad that's done. If I were a better player perhaps I would be more casual about the accomplishment but, at my player skill level, I am ecstatic to win those fights.

I have no knowledge of the Incarnate system. Will learn as I go after it is introduced.