I'm still for Option 1, as I believe we don't need a zillion duplicate listings (ten types of chain, instead of one type of chain with options, for instance), but let me go back on the Tights With Skin caveat for a moment. I want to list out all the options which are patterns vs. all the options which are textures:
Patterns Tops:
Bikini, Angelic, Assassin, Athletic, Bandeau, Bandeau Sleeve, Baroque, Belly Tee Long, Belly Tee Short, Blast, Blocks, Desire, Disco, Eden, Excess, Fade Line, Fire Stripe, Frost, Hacker, Hearts (I assume), Horns, Jungle, Jungle Sheer, Keyhole, Keyhole Sheer, Mesh, Mod, Mod Sleeve, Savage, Sport, Strapless, Straps 1, Straps 2, Tanker, Thin Stripes, Tee, Thorns, V, V Deep, V Neck.
Textures Tops:
Angelic Plus, Bioluminescence, Bridal, Bridal & Lace, Excess Plus, Hearts Plus, Leather, Metal, Tank Top (yes, seriously), Witch Bare, Witch Lace, Zombie.
Patterns Bottoms:
Bikini 1, Bikini 2, Bikini 3 (aka thong), Angelic, Assassin, Athletic Short, Baroque, Blast, Disco, Excess, Full Fishnets, Fishnets, Hacker, Hearts (I assume), Holes, Savage, Shorts 1, Shorts 1 + Tights (why?), Shorts 2, Shorts 2 + Tights (why?), Shorts 3, Shorts 3 + Tights (again, why?), Slits, Straps, Straps 2, Thin Stripes 1, Thin Stripes 2 (why is that not under Tigths?).
Textures Bottoms:
Angelic Plus, Bioluminescence, Excess Plus, Hearts Plus, Metal, Witch Bare, Witch Lace, Zombie.
To do a little tally, we have 40 + 27 = 67 pattern options between Tops and Bottoms and only 12 + 8 = 20 texture options between Tops and Bottoms. True, I did count the three Shorts + Tights patterns and the one Thin Stripe pattern as such, when they are in fact nothing more than full tights with a patter, but if we start splitting hairs, then Bio-Luminescence and Zombie have no place in the Tops with Skin category and shoul be under Tights where Hairy an Reptillian are, and that's four a piece.
What I'm getting at here is that we already have a huge library of "paint-on" patterns that people have been using as skin-tight spandex for years. Whatever you do, DO NOT replace those patterns with textures, no matter what your perceived gain may be. If you must add texture versions of the patterns, do so in addition to the original patterns, not INSTEAD of them.
Oh, and David - do you still remember that muscular skin texture for females? Yeah, that'll only work with Patterns unless you want to put an ENORMOUS amount of work into it 
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Are people screaming for more choice because they actually fear losing particular costume pieces, or are they just arguing "choice for choice's sake?"
If you don't have a dog in this hunt, saying "More choices is better" doesn't really hold much water. If you've got one character that has one costume that uses a legacy piece...I'm sorry, but that's not a reason to hold up progress, or make things even more convoluted by having more options.
You want more options. Are you really going to use them? Are you holding on to legacy bits because that's actually the look you want, or is it only there because it's "better than nothing?" The Art Department can do better than give us square pegs and a hammer for our round holes, and they're trying to do that right here.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
Two votes for option two (myself and offline friend).
We'd rather have the legacy pieces, with new ones perhaps added to the "top" of their appropriate menus to indicate new shinies.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Out with the old in with the new! Option 1 please.
I'm *still* annoyed about the change to the bobcut ("wedge") hairstyle and *still* want the old version added back in so I can use it on my alts (who all had the old one on at least one costume and now have had to switch to something completely different).
As for this, simply add a "legacy" choice to the *top* menu to each part of the tailor interface. Choosing that option leads to an alphabetical list of all the parts (of the given type) that you have relegated to legacy since they are now replaced. Players can then choose whether they want to use these or not.
As more new and replacement pieces arrive, more old versions are added into "Legacy".
For example, under Tops you get to choose Tights, Tights Sleek, Tops With Skin, etc and then "Legacy". Legacy items are not sorted into types themselves, you just have to sort through the alphabetical list to find things you want.
On a related note, I am kinda amused at Noble's obvious bias. His question is kinda like "hey guys, would you like the shiny super and wise option 1 or the diabolical, senseless and downright insane option 2? Anyone for waaaaacky option 2? No? Good...phew." 
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
Quote:
Are you in someway implying that the wildly inaccurate guess i've thrown out there is somehow wrong?
|
Originally Posted by Emberly
As of this post the count is 134 for option 1 and 59 for option 2, give or take a couple for each side that I might have double counted or whatever.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
|
Quote:
I prefer option 1, and no, I never use the non-animated tails these days.
|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
HYPOTHETICAL OPTION 1: Old assets would be removed from the Costume Creator menu and you'd have the newer, updated ones instead.
HYPOTHETICAL OPTION 2: We leave the old version alone and put the new version immediately below it in the Costume Creator. Possible grist for the mill: --non-animated tails were left in Costume Creator when Animated Tails were added. Do any of you use the non-moving ones at this point? |
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
As I said in my previous post here are some screenshots showing how the animated tails don't work with Trench Coats. Here are two pics or the original demon tail
Not the clearest pictures but you should be able to see how the non-animated demon tail is behind the the coat with minimal clipping
Now here is the same toon with the animated demon tail
It pokes through the back of the trench coat and when it moves causes a lot of clipping.
So I think the non-animated tails should stay!!
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Quote:
|
I'm not sure if it has been suggested as I haven't read all 20 pages, but could the legacy costume pieces be an option?
Make them part of the 3 month veteran reward or some other easy-to-unlock method that way people who want them have to claim them, and those who do not can enjoy reasonably sized menus?
(I personally would greatly prefer option 1. More stuff in the menus actually makes it harder for me to create decent costumes if I don't already know what I'm looking for.)
Quote:
I absolutely have a preference for Option 1, because I think the game as a whole and new players in particular would be better served by that choice. I've made the case for consistency, evolution, etc. |
Originally Posted by Dollymistress
On a related note, I am kinda amused at Noble's obvious bias. His question is kinda like "hey guys, would you like the shiny super and wise option 1 or the diabolical, senseless and downright insane option 2? Anyone for waaaaacky option 2? No? Good...phew."
|
That said, I'd rather make decisions informed by community input, even if it doesn't square with my personal opinion. Our fundamental goal is pretty simple: to give you guys what you want, and that's why I'm asking your opinion. Thanks very much for the metric ton of responses--it's all very helpful.
David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
Are you guys keeping a poll response graph somewhere in the office? Who's winning? 
Hello, my name is @Caligdoiel and I'm an altoholic.
Quote:
I'm really glad you feel this way. Retaining the old, ugly options is a mistake. New players see the character creator before they see the shiny new Ultramode world; it's important that they not be turned off by ugly models.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I absolutely have a preference for Option 1, because I think the game as a whole and new players in particular would be better served by that choice. I've made the case for consistency, evolution, etc.
|
edit:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Caligdoiel
Are you guys keeping a poll response graph somewhere in the office? Who's winning?
|
I have to wonder how many of the Option 1 supporters are running Ultra Mode.
Still, I think a lot of the "old" in the game comes from NPCs and building structures as opposed to the players themselves. Plus, I think a lot of the Option 2 crowd are firm in their stance due to a bit of distrust from prior actions.
I run Ultra Mode and have to say I don't like that some of my costume pieces are shiny and reflective and some aren't. But at the same time, I really wish I could choose which to have. I personally don't like the new metallic skin. When I choose colors for it they are distorted in the costume creator by lighting that I'm not even seeing on screen. And why can't I have a matte finish?
So personally I'd rather have a big list of options than just one or the other. So if I'm reading right I'd fall into Option 2. BUT that doesn't mean I don't think a majority of the old pieces need an updated texture file. I just think we should get to choose. I see Noble/David's point of wanting uniformity but that's about 3 years too late. We haven't had uniformity since they started adding new costumes with better textures.
Either way, good luck! It sounds like a large amount of work to make the majority happy.
First, Noble Savage... No worries. Even if I disagree with you for whatever reason, I appreciate your genuine nature and have no problem with that. (The simple fact that you ask these questions is fantastic)
As for not wanting to have new players see ugly costume bits or whatever... You also don't want to tick off existing players.
While there may be a majority in this little poll, it's still a large amount of people on the smaller side.
Most importantly... while new players are always important... Any game that aims for new players at the expense of a large portion of existing players is likely shooting themselves in the foot (or much worse).
NOT that I think CoH will do any such thing (They seem to like us, after all!).
Just that some of the things people say in here lean in that direction.
Again, I play this game because I LIKE how this game is right now in its current state. Yep, improvements are GREAT! New things are GREAT. Improving old things that make them better is GREAT.
There are some cases with graphics and characters that make that last one more tricky than just simply, "better is better".
Seems like a case by case scenario is the best way to go, eh?
If you look at every person that voted Option 1 BUT a caveat as to not replace this or that... Maybe they should be put into Option 2.
Everyone can have something that they'd not like to see change too greatly. Voting Option 1 with the exception of [fill in the blank] is sort of a selfish vote for Option 2. How about the things that someone else might find as dear to them as that person holds that particular category dear? Hmmm?
With consideration (And copious talent and dedication), I'm sure good things will come
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
I agree with this.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
Still, I think a lot of the "old" in the game comes from NPCs and building structures as opposed to the players themselves.
|
Outfit your character in a t-shirt and jeans and then run a tip mission with Frostfire and compare. That clashes more than any couple of old/new parts would. The citizen NPCs and enemy groups should really be re-created with player costume assets.
Glancing at Paragon Wiki, Crey, Family, Outcasts, PPD, Skulls, Hellions, Warriors, and Ghosts enemy groups could easily be updated and up-rezed with minimal work using mainly parts that are already in the costume editor for players.
Nemesis soliders, Lost, Vahzilok and some others would require new assets because I don't see equivalent parts available for them.
If the devs are going to be updating costume parts, they should kill two birds and update the NPCs and enemy groups to use them at the same time.
.
Quote:
I was getting a little disgusted with some of the older costume pieces before I upgraded my video card to one that would support Ultra Mode. Most of the CoV-era costume pieces are passable at worst, but the parts that launched with CoH in 2004 are almost universally icky.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
I have to wonder how many of the Option 1 supporters are running Ultra Mode.
|
Also, texture quality has very little to do with whether or not you use Ultra Mode. My last video card (an $80 GeForce 9600 when I bought it new) barely works with any Ultra Mode features at all outside of reflections... but I could still run around with the texture, map and character quality settings maxed out and a decent framerate in the 20-30fps range.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Option 2 for me.
I would prefer a middle ground between 1 and 2 (which imo is updating the user interface to include a legacy costume option... that would allow those of us who want to use older pieces still get to them while allowing folks who just want the updated parts to avoid them) but if that is totally off the table than it has to be option 2.
I love updates as much as the next guy but the older pieces can really be used to make some amazing out of the box looks. The newer pieces tend to be less flexible.
"I think I'm cute. I've got gold medals.
I've got the moves that make them all tap out.
The Angle Slam, the Ankle Lock.
Marty Jannetty...still can't walk.
I'm just the sexy Kurt.
I'll make your ankle hurt.
I'm just the sexy Kurt.
I'll make your ankle hurt."
Kurt Angle
Quote:
Which still means 30% don't jive with it. Not an insignificant percentage by any means...
|
Originally Posted by Emberly
edit: As of your post, it's 144 for option 1, 63 for option 2. Looks like the playerbase at large jives with Noble Savage's position.
|
Want better looking NPCs Contacts? Check out this NPC Contact/Trainer/Etc Revision Thread and Index
-
Remember: Guns don't kill people; Meerkats kill people.
Quote:
They clip with any sort of long cape too. It's frustrating. I've gone to not using animated tails with anything other than a short cape (and I don't like short capes). It's definitely a case of keeping the old and providing the new since the new just doesn't work in some situations.
|
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
As I said in my previous post here are some screenshots showing how the animated tails don't work with Trench Coats. Here are two pics or the original demon tail
It pokes through the back of the trench coat and when it moves causes a lot of clipping. So I think the non-animated tails should stay!! |
My Corner of DeviantART
The Queen's Menagerie
I run Ultra mode and I have to say that I am in favor of Option 1 as well for numerous reasons, most of which have already been stated in this thread.
Tech Support Rule #1 - They will lie to you. Usually intentionally.
Option 1 all the way for me. I couldn't see myself using the old style stuff if I had better version available (assuming they're both the same style).
I'd be all for updating some of the older enemy groups, too. Some of those guys look way too dated, and clash with the rest of the game.
IF Option 1 means better and improved appearances on older costume peices. I'm all for it. +1 for Option 1
So long as all you're doing is updating a costume piece with higher resolution textures, then I'm all for option 1.
At the same time, I'd like you to keep a "legacy" option as well, probably under an alternative tab when you select the costume piece. Not because I'd ever use it, but because there are quite a number of people who apparently would.
*Edit* And keep the non-animated tails. A lot of us just have them as a part of our costume, assumed to be made out of plastic to look "cute" or what have you, rather than having an actual biological extensions of our spine.
In some kosher grocers and in Mexico (at least in parts) you can still get sugar sweetened Coke as opposed to the US highly subsidized (and thus much cheaper to produce and sell at higher profits) high fructose corn syrup version. I personally prefer the cane sugar. Not only does it taste better, but it is much less bad for you as scientific studies have shown that calories from high fructose corn syrup get turned into fat at a ratio three times higher than cane syrup glucose. The metabolic reasons for this remain a mystery currently.
But at the end of the day, I prefer me a good naturally caffeine free China Cola (a snooty spice cola sold in natural food stores) over either Coke product. Even more less bad for you!
Anyways, back on topic, quick update to my vote: I selected option 2 which I still go with BUT option 3 of prioritizing an update to the character creator over either 1 or 2 is sounding better and better based on multiple cases made above.