Informal Art Poll

Legacy options please. As has been pointed out, some costume parts fit their characters better in their older forms and likely there are hundreds of thousands of characters that would change *dramatically*, and not always to their owners' liking, if those options were simply replaced.

I want more options, never fewer.

I really, really want those old flare-top thigh-high boots back. REALLY. They worked great for certain things, and skin-tight thigh-highs while nice, don't fit the look *I* wanted (and I know when they were changed there were plenty who would agree).

More options is always better. I don't care if it means I have to muddle through another menu layer, that's part of the fun of creating a character!

Re: Tails

Not all tails I have seen are animated. You didn't even add a tiny twitch now and then to the bunny one, so it's not like you can just make a blanket statement that nobody uses the non-animated tails when not all of the tails have been given that option.

Re: Updated looks

I'm a relative newcomer to the game, and I have to say that some things need to stay as they are. Any change to a non-'with skin' pattern should keep the legacy one if it includes an alteration of texture rather than just cleaning up the edges and providing something with a higher resolution. That being said, I would propose an alteration to the categories at hand when it comes to 'with skin.' Keep the current one and call it 'Tights With Skin' and keep the painted-on look. Add in a new one and call it 'Clothes with Skin' and give it some more specific textures so that the old Sports Bra in 'with skin' still looks painted on, but you now have a new sports bra that actually LOOKS like a piece of clothing. With the SuperTailor from the science booster, we can even simulate the firmer hold and slightly tighter compression that one gives by reducing the chest slider for that costume and only that costume. This would work even better were the theoretical 'Sports Bra revamped' to act like some of the physical prop chest details and not only cover but replace that section of the character body much the same way that the Cyborg ones do.

Re: Metallic Shininess

A more proper term than Matte for the old 'unshiny' Metallic piece would be Sandblasted. Sandblasting metal not only removes surface crap, it also creates a very different texture on the metal that doesn't reflect light perfectly and makes it look very flat. Applyng a color to sandblasted metal doesn't always result in a shiny look depending on what is used. One could easily reintroduce the old Metallic look, lacking the shine and everything, and call it 'Sandblasted Metal' which would also work MUCH better for those whose concepts include camoflage paint over a metal form. For something like the Medieval pieces, make new shiny versions, and keep the old ones with a slight DETAIL upgrade but no shine and file them as the same piece with the 'New and Shiny' look being selectable as a suboption much the same way many detail pieces have 'Basic' and 'Metallic' suboptions.


Re: Original Topic

I'm generally in favor of Option 1, BUT clearly certain things need to remain as a part of player preferences, hence my suggestion of moving the 'body paint' looking pieces that are currently under 'Tops with Skin' into 'Tights with Skin' and making a new one called 'Clothes with Skin' to house the better looking versions that are more distinct pieces of clothing in their own right instead of looking like someone took liquid latex and painted their costume on.

One thing to consider is that redo-ing the menus and placement of items within them is, in itself, a significant amount of work for the Character and Tech teams. Assume that any menu work will consume 50% of the time available for any redos.

Bottom line, avoiding menu work is preferable and brings us back to Options 1 and 2.

Id say to use option 2 because sometimes you might want a bit of the classic pieces along with the new stuff. One of my characters still uses the head band wings over the new mac pack head wings. Not just because the classic version has the headband and the new one doesn't but be because the texture fits better.

I'd like to repeat what Sam said bears repeating:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow This bears repeating. "Painted on" patterns over skin should not be "fixed" to be anything but higher-res patterns over skin. If "more detailed" versions of them are added, then they need to be given the "Plus treatment," in the same way as Angelic vs. Angelic Plus, Excess vs. Excess Plus, Hearts vs. Hearts plus, etc. I want to retain the look of perfect body-tight spandex, even if it has to resemble bodypaint to achieve it. Better resolution, yes. Pattern to texture, NOOO!

I'm completely for more "plus" treatments on these sets, as they would be great additions some of us have been requesting for some time. But do leave the originals, please.

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I have to go with Option #2
As many others have said, In the past not all "Improvements" to various costume bits have been positive in my eyes- quite specifically the change on Thigh High boots, and while a few of those changes got switched back or toned down (the buttprint on skirts, for example) those all took some time and much griping on our part to get "fixed", and the vast majority have just been "here's the new look, deal with it".
It's quite obvious that the costume departments idea of how things should look don't always line up with various players interpretations of parts- Ultimately, I think we should always go with the option that leaves the players the most flexibility.

As others have suggested, I would be in favor of some sort of menu option to Allow/Hide Legacy Costumes.

Could the new pieces have the same name but use HD or something similar after the name?

Pattern 1 HD
Padded Armor HD
Fury HD
etc?

Depends on how long it takes for you to switch out pieces, honestly.

I'd say Option 1, assuming that art assets can be dropped back in fairly quickly, in a case-by-case scenario where maybe there is too drastic of a distance for the player base. Update all of the pieces you want, and then if there is a player uproar over one piece or other, then simply add the legacy version in under a new name. Seems simple enough.

However, if adding the legacy pieces back in would take 2-3 months, making the players wait for their classic looks back, then Option 2 seems like the safer route. There really aren't that many glaringly bad pieces left in the game, so I don't think it would hurt the game's overall feel to new players and you get to keep the veteran players happy.

I can see why so many people are going with Option 2, but I don't think it's necessary to leave EVERY piece in the game. Judging by the update that was done to the Gladiator shoulder pads, I feel comfortable with the idea of you completely updating any piece you want in the game. There wasn't a big difference in the look and feel and the geometry stayed the same.

The flip side of this argument is the metallic tights, which people continue to complain about. The problem here is that all the player base seems to want, is the older version back in the game as a secondary option. Had you guys dropped it back in within a few patches after Issue 17, I think people would be more open to Option 1. Unfortunately, you guys have added several patches and launched an entire expansion, without giving the players their original, non-shiny, metallic tights back. Bad form.

Hope that helps some with perspective. I love what you're doing David, keep it up. You're the man!

Assuming that special cases such as metallic textures are handled differently, I'd say #1.

Things such as the original patterns for tights are noticeably lower resolution, and I can't imagine any reason to use one over a newer, cleaned-up version. Plus, there would be a TON of items in those lists, right? Might be a bit much if all the older pieces had duplicates.

I'm all for option 1. Less menu clutter and menu work means that more things get updated over a shorter period of time because more time can be devoted to working on updating the costume pieces. Also less things that I'll never use anymore that I don't have to sift through.

Honestly, I don't really like to use too many of the older legacy pieces anymore because they look too dated alongside the more recent pieces. Especially hair, there are a few old favorite hairstyles that I'd love to use, but because they look so blocky and low textured next to the newer ones I never do anymore; I always opt for the newer pieces.

I think it is logical to assume that the developers have collected data on the popularity of pieces and can chart the decline in popularity overtime as better texture models came out. I would think that they would adjust the pieces in some order of popularity. Which again points back to option 1, the more time the developers have to focus on the updates, the greater likelihood that whatever piece a given person is hoping for will get updated.

In short, I think the devs have made the right decisions on what looks good based on what has been produced thus far, so I see no problem trusting the team to fix the out dated options and no need to keep the old ones once they are done.

I mean I lost 120lbs this year, and I didn't keep my old clothes just because I liked a shirt. A shirt that was 4X looks like a poncho on me now, so I got rid of it because I'd never use it again. So if we aren't likely to use a costume piece there is no reason to keep the old ones around. This is City of Heroes; not City of Hoarders.

I vote for Option 2.

I prefer to have the choice to use old or new pieces. Dealing with the additional clutter won't be too bad if the old and new are next to each other or if we had a new and improved interface.

Assuming that none of the "aestetics" are changed, I would say go for option 1. From a hardware point of view, having more crap people never use in memory is a great way to bog down the already page table heavy COH even further. A lot of the older textures are not used as much any more by a lot of people, and a good high def redo would make them seem new and great again.

Option 2. Definitely option 2.

The problem with the newer costume pieces is that they are ALL heavily textured. Colors interact differently with all of them. They all have varying levels of shine. This means that they're hard to match to anything but other pieces in the set, and the low-rez, plain, boring original pieces.

Or hair. The older hairstyles use the secondary color as highlights/lowlights, allowing you to use two very different colors and just give the impression of unusually colored hair, or to experiment with secondary and primary colors until you get the color you want. With the newer styles, you get two-tone hair, which means you have to find a color you like in the existing palette, because if you want "normal" hair you will have to choose a secondary color that is close to it.

While I'm on the subject....can we expand the color palette?

If it's just a question of sharpening up the edges, then replacing the old pieces is fine. But if it's anything more, I'd like to keep the older pieces as options also.

I'm going to say Option 2. Everytime an older costume piece is replaced with something newer, even for a small change, there's an outcry over it (how much of one depending on the piece). Might as well keep everything we have, and just add more. <_<


Now, a bit of reorganizing of the menus would be nice. Perhaps options for listing stuff alphabetically, or giving parts with long menus, like Chest Emblems, split-up lists (Chest Emblems could be "Symbols", "3D", and "Characters", for the numbers and letters).

Option 2 for the reason of flexibility that people mentioned above. More detail = less uses for a costume parts. I know you promised no aesthetic changes, but what you perceive as no aesthetic change could (and probably will be) for some.

I also agree that a change in the Costume Creator's UI is inevitable, and should be done no matter what option is finally chosen.

Another thought:
As mentioned, most people like the less detailed options for flexibility. Part of the reason for this is that we are missing parts. (some parts people have been asking for, for years) For example, FINS. People might be okay with you getting rid of some of the older options if they had these pieces, because they wouldn't need to "fake it" with the old pieces.