Quote:
It shouldn't. The computer is still calling just one texture.
|
Originally Posted by Dalantia
Is this going to affect my framerate? ;p
|
David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
Option 1 here. The costume creator menu is already getting pretty damn cluttered.
Option 2, please! Taking away options people have been using for years is NEVER a good thing! And that's just what they are -- options. If people don't want to use the old items, they don't have to.
Some sub-categories to aid in organization within the costume creator would be great, certainly, but I can't accept a loss of existing options, personally, under any circumstances.
I think the most telling point is: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you think is 'better' is not necessarily 'better' to me. And vice-versa. In matters where the only real judgement is a subjective one, the option that allows for the greater amount of choices is clearly the best.
Keep everything. I'm all for the old with the new, even if it doesn't look up to speed anymore.
As for the non-animated tails, keep them. Some people use them, and I like having the options.
Would it be possible to see a sample of the new things we are voting on, to compare, before being made to decide whether to get rid of a large chunk of the games costume options?
Option 1 is fine with me. There may be a few edge cases where keeping the old makes sense but otherwise, go for it.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
I'd go for #2, as I find it very annoying to have to redo costumes that I like because textures or shades no longer match from piece-to-piece.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Option 2 : The more you make an ambiguous costume piece look like what you think it is the less it will look like what someone else thinks it is. So far every specific example given of how the changes wouldn't cause problems have been shown to cause problems with some concepts; a 100% failure rate is not "edge cases".
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Hey, folks. So I have two overarching philosophies when it comes to the Art Direction in COH: first, that we continue to improve the quality bar with every new initiative we undertake and second, that we not forget about the legacy art as this happens. But when it comes to legacy art, there are of course items in the Costume Creator that are starting to show their age. We could hypothetically remake these assets with crisper, more detailed textures and modern shaders and do our best to maintain the 'flavor' and 'feel' of the originals, with the goal of giving you the same stuff, only better.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But then there's a choice on how to deploy them, and that's where this very informal poll comes in: How would you, the players, want to approach this issue? HYPOTHETICAL OPTION 1: Old assets would be removed from the Costume Creator menu and you'd have the newer, updated ones instead. Pro: This raises the overall quality bar of the game by eliminating the oldest, least-attractive pieces; players look cooler; everything looks more consistent and modern. Less menu clutter. Con: change is scary; perhaps some players will prefer the old pieces? HYPOTHETICAL OPTION 2: We leave the old version alone and put the new version immediately below it in the Costume Creator. Pro: Nothing is 'taken away.' Con: Outmoded art remains, clashes progressively more with newer, modern assets. Menus swell with 2 options for each basic piece, making it harder to navigate. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you can see where I stand on this.  Personally, I'd like to see the game's art evolve, improve, and remain consistent, so I much prefer Option 1. But as always, I'd be interested to hear what you guys think about this. Do me a favor and please keep your posts short and to the point. Possible grist for the mill: --non-animated tails were left in Costume Creator when Animated Tails were added. Do any of you use the non-moving ones at this point? |
First off, I haven't delved into the thread and read it. So any comments are going to be strictly based on David's OP quoted above.
In all honesty, I'd say Option 2.
I'm all for new stuff and updates to existing stuff (or putting back stuff taken out. Witch Bare on the Monstrous Legs for Females...). It should not come at a cost of what's in the CC right now though.
I actually like some of the current patterns and the like and they are useful on several of the characters I play. But if I tweak a costume and the legacy stuff is gone, I won't be able to tweak that costume ever again. Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of what the CC is there for?
While I understand it would prove more of a headache, systems wise, to add options and make the CC interface a little clunkier, I think the overall addition of options is a better way to go. Customization has always been a hallmark of this game. By going with Option 1, You'd be loosing some of that in an attempt to bring everything up to a improved graphical standard.
I also believe that the legacy stuff should be kept in for those who run on lower end systems. That way, those players have options that allow them playability, even though their characters may not look the best to those with better systems.
As to the animated tails question? I believe I have a couple of characters that use the static tails because it fits the character concept of the particular costume better than the animated.
Now I'll have fun reading though the thread...
Thank you for the time...
@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test) 
Concerning Tails: keep the still ones. In fact, make a non-moving version of the wolf-tail. I was all 'hmmmm...' that there wasn't one with re-designing a Werewolf toon. He's never happy, and never wags his tail...
Nobel Savage, I'm very glad to see this taking place. And very glad to see that there is a poll which allows us, the playerbase, input on how things continue from here on out.
Now with the pro's and con's I still think we should go with option 2. However, there might be another way.
If you make a sub catagory on the costume design area for newer and older model pieces then maybe we could cut the clutter a bit.
Here's the way I would see it.
Chest Pieces
Armor
Newer model pieces
1.Newer Option 1
2.Newer Option 2
Older Model pieces
1.Older Option 1
2.Older Option 2
etc.
This way, as the newer model pieces go in. They would all go into the newer model pieces subfolder under armor. You would need similar subfolders for shoulder, legs, etc.
That might help organize things a bit.
P_Flux
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
Quote:
And a real 'live' example of this -- a character I've had for years now on Virtue, Delphine:|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Thing is, in both of those examples the low res version is more versatile.
That's why I like that legacy tailor suggestion, which is the best of both options. |
She's designed to be an aquatic hero, a non-human being, not simply a human being in a suit. The central fin on atop her head is actually the 'mohawk' hairstyle. The side fins are the 'wings' that the earlier screenshots displaying the new look clearly showed are -significantly- different and render this look impossible.
Changes like implementing the 'new wings' without retaining the option to use the 'old wings' totally invalidate the entire character concept. How is it that people can't see that that is a bad thing? Every time you alter a piece to make it 'more detailed and specific' you make it more -rigid- in it's uses and invalidate a whole slew of more widely varied, 'out of the box' uses it may have had before.
Option 1
Costume creation isn't something I am good at. While I have lots of fun creating stuff, it doesn't look that good.
If Option 1 gives more flexability to create stuff and gives us more options in the future then I say 1.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Quote:
... what? |
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
bAss!
|
Why are you calling me out? You gonna challenge me to a duel?
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Quote:
The "new wings" you saw earlier are actually the Valkyrie wings. The replacement for the "old wings" will be shaped exactly the same, but have a more detailed hi-res texture applied to it.|
Originally Posted by Ayradyss
Changes like implementing the 'new wings' without retaining the option to use the 'old wings' totally invalidate the entire character concept.
|
And honestly and with no offense meant, Delphine does look like she's just got blue wings stuck to her head, not the fancy fin ears I think you imagine them to be.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
I think one of the early responses had the right idea, why not fold them all into the same 'option' with an extra selector, the why a lot of the newer parts like skirts are? Only go a step further and fold the 'Tights - Shiny' into the Tights options.
So you could select from, as the previous poster illustrated:
Tights
-Tights Variant
--Legacy Tights
--New Tights
--Shiny Tights
-Pattern
--Assassin
--Thin Stripe 2
Like so?
The advantage here is it would also make for easy upgrades and additions later on, so if you wanted to have different material textures, for instance.
I also hope this will include going back and redoing a lot of the 'with skin' options. They look so bland now, and have ever since the Wedding Pack.
Don't touch my legacy pants!
The last time someone "improved" them they got completely removed from the creator and a suitable replacement was not provided. I cannot make any changes to my costume slot #1 without losing my pants and it irks me to no end!!
I don't care if they're not up to someone else's standards of resolution or if they clash with the newest overly shiny fashion trend. Leave mah pants alone!
Craft your inventions in AE!!
Play "Crafter's Cafe" - Arc #487283. A 1 mission, NON-COMBAT AE arc with workable invention tables!
One option would be to add a toggle option into the costume creator. or a "a master selector" to the top. Say below costume sets and above head add...
<All Costume Parts> - <Improved Costume Parts> - <Legacy Costume Parts>
this ay players from the top of costume design can choose to remove to clutter of older stuff if they want to.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
|
Quote:
I think the point is that the its easier to ignore what something "is" with lessened details. The more the art team fills in the blanks (so to speak), the harder it is to hand-wave away what is versus "this is the best I could improvise."|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
The "new wings" you saw earlier are actually the Valkyrie wings. The replacement for the "old wings" will be shaped exactly the same, but have a more detailed hi-res texture applied to it.
And honestly and with no offense meant, Delphine does look like she's just got blue wings stuck to her head, not the fancy fin ears I think you imagine them to be. |
Hrm... I might have to rethink my position on #1, then. Granted, I'm not trying to do anything like Ayradyss, but I'm sure others are. That being said I'd really like to see the costume creator go through another revision. We've got so many options its gotten pretty ARG! to navigate at times. I think I'd rather see one more drop box for items with multiple options rather than make the main lists even longer (so the options would be - high detail, legacy or none).
It has to be option 2. As much as I want everybody to look better, the low res options give you a wider design base to work off of. And as much as you want to claim otherwise, you can't really guarantee that you won't do things like changing hair shapes and boot designs without complete reswaps that you happen to believe are better, because it's been done this way in the past.
If you go to option 1 but let people keep their old costume so long as they never go to a tailor, you lock out people from making small tweaks to their costumes, which is a terrible idea.
Quote:
As long as they are the same pieces, and cover the same area. We've seen some "updated" hairstyles that were obviously related to their prior self, but between different attach points, etc. gave a totally different look.
|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
This is more a general question about how you guys would like to see the game evolve, so I don't want to address specific pieces. That said, I think the oldest, lowest rez pieces would be ones most likely to get a revamp.
|
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Option 2.
I'd love to have the new stuff, but please DO NOT remove the old stuff.
Option two here too.
A lot of the updates to costumes have made them harder to mix and match, and the move with more modern bits to have them only work as a set is not one that should be encouraged to proliferate.
#2409 - The Mystery of the MAGI vaults. Azuria has contacted you to help her stop the thefts from the MAGI vaults.
#68054 - Out of the gutters. Left for dead, you swore that you were through with being a victim (alt villain beginning story)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
And honestly and with no offense meant, Delphine does look like she's just got blue wings stuck to her head, not the fancy fin ears I think you imagine them to be.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Psyte
I think the point is that the its easier to ignore what something "is" with lessened details. The more the art team fills in the blanks (so to speak), the harder it is to hand-wave away what is versus "this is the best I could improvise."
|
I think Psyte has stated it fairly well, which is why I included that quote too. The less-defined objects allow for a wider range of 'interpretation' and use of the players' imagination, which can sometimes be a GOOD thing.
Option 1 would be my ideal. And I would also like to echo that the textures of some costume pieces can make it hard to match things. For istance, a lot of the mask options don't really work when you've got metallic and such chest bits (especially if they're UM-shiney).
If nothing else, though - I've got to hand it to you folks how much better the newer pieces look compared to the really old ones. I would like to see more parts come up that are a bit more general/generic, though...
Can I bribe you with Zippy's chili?
edit: After reconsidering? Make that vote for option #2 for me.