I hate every Praetorian


Adumbrate

 

Posted

So I'm working my way through the arcs in Praetoria and I'm finding that every contact I've encountered is self-centred, two-faced, vicous, mean-spirited and generally not someone I'd want to share a pint with - and I love it!

I must also add the caveat that I've not completed every arc available nor visited every contact not read every line of every mission on those I have done, but that is my overwhelming impression - and it's interesting because the moral choices (or perhaps the lack of morality) in Praetoria leave me thinking that I should walk my own path, and cherry pick whatever it is I feel is right for that character.

Initially, as someone who is naturally fairly anti-authoritarian, I'd imagined leaning heavily towards the resistance but I find them to be mostly murdering terrorists who'll stop at nothing to get their own way - so no different to Cole or the Loyalist factions in many ways. The only difference is Cole has the power they want.

But most of my characters in Praetoria have naturally gravitated towards a Loyalist position simply because it seems slightly less wrong (or perhaps more right) than the Resistance and history teaches us that those who overthrow governments for their own ends often come to sticky ends and have to compromise their ideals to maintain power.

But there's perhaps an unintended consequence here: I am trying to create characters that have to walk a twisted and narrow path between right and wrong, trying to do what's right and still getting in the stink to do it and that makes it a far more interesting game than the "You're a hero, go do this cuz it's right" or vice versa for villains. It becomes a pendulum... can you walk the path without veering too far in any direction and maintain your morality?

There may "only" be twenty levels to explore to date but there's a good few hours of RP and exploration to be had and I'm loving every minute of it.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Dimension-ist.


Need help making your own CoH comics or read other's comics at cohcomicindex.com

www.jkcomics.com for Justice-Knights comics series and more!
Storylines:
Introductions, Obey,

 

Posted

Some of the Loyalist arcs in the Responsibility line have really surprised me. I thought I'd be Resistance all the way with my characters, and yet I've chosen to be a Loyalist or switch sides a bunch of times. Meanwhile the Crusader arcs in the Resistance have been a complete turn off. Special mention goes to Hatchet. His arc is particularly ghoulish...and filled me some level of revulsion after I completed it.

If you're a heroic type character, there are contacts (not all of them) in both the Loyalist Responsibility and Resistance Warden lines. Loyalist Power and Resistance Crusader definitely appeal to more villainous types...actually I think the Crusader ones are far more villainous.


 

Posted

Something tells me I must get GR now.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Hero View Post
Something tells me I must get GR now.
You haven't already?! Heathen!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Hero View Post
Something tells me I must get GR now.
One of Us
One of Us
One of Us


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

I can't afford it. ^_^ I was pretty sure I made that obvious in a few threads.


 

Posted

As I travel through Praetoria what occurs to me is the sheer amount of work and thought that has gone into it and that makes me happy because it means my favourite game isn't going away anytime soon, I actually had to queue to get onto Defiant a couple of nights ago!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
Initially, as someone who is naturally fairly anti-authoritarian, I'd imagined leaning heavily towards the resistance but I find them to be mostly murdering terrorists who'll stop at nothing to get their own way - so no different to Cole or the Loyalist factions in many ways. The only difference is Cole has the power they want.
I've found none of the Wardens to be that way at all. Quite the opposite in fact. The Crusaders mostly don't want power, they want Cole and his regime gone and are willing to do whatever is necessary to bring that about.

Quote:
But most of my characters in Praetoria have naturally gravitated towards a Loyalist position simply because it seems slightly less wrong (or perhaps more right) than the Resistance and history teaches us that those who overthrow governments for their own ends often come to sticky ends and have to compromise their ideals to maintain power.
I haven't found ANYONE in the Resistance to be a person seeking power for their own ends. Some of them are nuts, but revenge is usually their motivation.

Quote:
There may "only" be twenty levels to explore to date but there's a good few hours of RP and exploration to be had and I'm loving every minute of it.
As am I. I personally find that there is no redemption in the Responsibility path, but plenty of wiggle room in the Power and Crusader paths. The Warden path is unabashedly heroic.


The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
I've found none of the Wardens to be that way at all. Quite the opposite in fact. The Crusaders mostly don't want power, they want Cole and his regime gone and are willing to do whatever is necessary to bring that about.



I haven't found ANYONE in the Resistance to be a person seeking power for their own ends. Some of them are nuts, but revenge is usually their motivation.



As am I. I personally find that there is no redemption in the Responsibility path, but plenty of wiggle room in the Power and Crusader paths. The Warden path is unabashedly heroic.

As I said I've not discovered everything and you may well be right - although I think Calvin Scott seems to have an agenda of power.

And Virtue, you're spot on!



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
As I said I've not discovered everything and you may well be right - although I think Calvin Scott seems to have an agenda of power.

And Virtue, you're spot on!
While it isn't really made clear in-game, in his biography rather than wanting power he wants his wife back. So rather than wanting to obtain power for its own sake he just accrues what he needs to kill Mother Mayhem, even seeing the resistance as nothing more than a tool.

But then that's just his bio. They may take him a different way in-game if we ever get more Praetoria-focused story content.


Friends are just enemies that haven't betrayed you yet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen_EU View Post
While it isn't really made clear in-game, in his biography rather than wanting power he wants his wife back. So rather than wanting to obtain power for its own sake he just accrues what he needs to kill Mother Mayhem, even seeing the resistance as nothing more than a tool.

But then that's just his bio. They may take him a different way in-game if we ever get more Praetoria-focused story content.
So very much a revenge motive, rather than any kind of justice or greater good by the sounds of it.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
So very much a revenge motive, rather than any kind of justice or greater good by the sounds of it.
The telling line: He claims that his fight is with Tyrant, whom he once proudly called Emperor Cole, but in truth, the Resistance is just a means to an end for him. Calvin is going to get his wife back--or he's going to burn the world down around him trying.

And the full bio it's from: http://goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.co...scott-bio.html

So yes, it's very much revenge more than anything else for him it seems.


Friends are just enemies that haven't betrayed you yet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen_EU View Post
The telling line: He claims that his fight is with Tyrant, whom he once proudly called Emperor Cole, but in truth, the Resistance is just a means to an end for him. Calvin is going to get his wife back--or he's going to burn the world down around him trying.

And the full bio it's from: http://goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.co...scott-bio.html

So yes, it's very much revenge more than anything else for him it seems.

Thanks for the link. I had read it a while back but of course it wasn't in the context of immersion then but yeah it very much illustrates my initial point.

I reckon all the meta-human PCs should just take over Praetoria and run it outselves!



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

Posted

To be fair I think the contacts in GR are about the most human feeling ones I've encountered in the game. Blueside most of them are power-of-good-celebrating phrase shouting, apple pie and baseball worshipping goody-goodys. While red-side they're prety much all moustache twirling pantomime villains. Very few characters either side really displayed much in the way of human foibles in their dialogue.

In GR we still have some people like that but more of them that seem to have some form of mildly more believable human reaction to the general chaos they find themselves involved in. There are even some surprises, for me at least, such as that by the end of it I LIKED Anti-Matter.

In general the "good" path characters on each side tend to be unrelentingly good (With a couple of exceptions I won't list here), the "evil" path ones are closer to the moral grey. Well, other than the resistance ones, the Crusaders, those guys are just flying-mouse-excrement insane.


Friends are just enemies that haven't betrayed you yet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen_EU View Post
While it isn't really made clear in-game, in his biography rather than wanting power he wants his wife back.
And then Calvin Scott founds NERV and things really start going downhill for everybody.


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Hero View Post
Something tells me I must get GR now.
Turn up the psionic emissions, we're getting through!

Huh? Oh, nothing.


 

Posted

I have never wanted to murder a contact before I played Hatchet's arc.

...Well, I've never been able to bring myself to play Phipps. So that probably has something to do with it.


But Hatchet is just cruel. Cruel. Especially after finding out...

SPOILER



That the ghouls are Neuron's experiments, and that it's possible to restore their human intelligence. You hook bombs up to them! You make one murder his brother! It's -horrible-!



END SPOILER

Wardens are good though.

Warden is Idealistic (It's a hard fight, but we can make it one step at a time). Responsibility is Realistic (We can't win every fight... and sometimes the killer gets away. But we've got to try our hardest to keep this city safe)
Crusader is either psychotic (LET'S BURN THESE <expletive> DOWN!) or Extremist (I'd rather see this city burn than have the people lived enslaved for one more day.)
Power is Opportunistic (Did you get my good side?)

I've done Nova Crusader, Nova Warden, Imperial Responsibility, Imperial Warden, and parts of Nova Responsibly, Imperial Crusader, and Imperial Power.

"My Robot Butler: The Murderer" made me cringe when I realized that these civilians were dying because of what I did.

Hatchet was reviling.

I didn't have that much of a problem with Mr. G or Transmuter because I wasn't actually being evil. Using your position to gain power is immoral. But blowing up ghouls when you could be curing them? Horrific.


 

Posted

well on a quirky side, i loved ricochet, partially because she is entirely deranged and has the most bizzarre way of saying thing, even when you take into account the resistance code language. and of course, i think most people who meet her like tunnel rat, she kind of has an early buffy willow sense of manic silliness to her, mixed with over the top paranoia, i was sad to see her go.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
I reckon all the meta-human PCs should just take over Praetoria and run it outselves!
No, Praetoria is for the Praetorians - we're just going there to liberate them, not conquer them.

Also, you ned to play the Warden path - you'll find the nice contacts there


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen_EU View Post
While red-side they're prety much all moustache twirling pantomime villains.
The Radio? Dmitri Krylov? Doc Buzzsaw? Kelly Uqua? Hardcase? Terrance Dobbs?

You should try Villains sometime. It's great.


 

Posted

This is about how I see the various factions and paths breaking down:

Resistance Warden - Vigilante. They do what they feel is the right thing, but they operate outside of the law.

Resistance Crusader - Villain. They're out for their own (revenge/power/whatever) and will break any and every law they feel like. Kill people without Blinking and eye, and kick some puppies too.


Loyalist Power - Rogue, I suppose. They're out for their own, just like the Crusaders, but they use (and abuse) the system to get it, where the Crusaders throw it to the winds.

Loyalist Responsibility - Hero. They do their best to provide justice, order and protection for the people within the limits of the law.

I find that morally Wardens appeal most to me, but I end up playing the early crusader arcs anyhow, because frankly I find the Warden line a bit,... Dry. After Warden would be Loyalist Responsibility. They do as much as they can, within the bounds of the law.


@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
Loyalist Responsibility - Hero. They do their best to provide justice, order and protection for the people within the limits of the law.
The law of an inhuman dictatorship - it's very important to remember that when trying to justify being one of Tyrant's stormtroopers


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Nooot exactly. If the law was that police spontaneously clobber random passersby on the street, that'd be one thing, but the Responsibility line is genuinely interested in the well-being of the general populace.

Don't spurn the Loyalists until you're well-informed. (-: