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I would not mind that actually.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I wouldn't say that Brutes were any more broken relative to Scrappers than Scrappers currently are relative to Stalkers.
In fact, if the Stalker community was as vocal as the Scrapper community, I wouldn't be surprised if the self buff modifier of 1.0 and 0.8 was swapped between the two ATs-- ie a nerf to Scrapper's burst damage and a buff to that of Stalkers. |
Stalkers need something. In my opinion, that's the return of the aoe left out of their sets.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Pretty much this. Stalkers are designed for some other game where AoE isn't the undisputed king of everything, and no amount of tweaks to damage and adding crits is gonna make up for that.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I would not mind that actually.
Stalkers need something. In my opinion, that's the return of the aoe left out of their sets. |
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Well I thinks that's exactly it. I think Stalkers were designed for PvP with their high burst single target damage and intrinsic stealth. CoH, is by and large, not a PvP game at all for most people.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Pretty much this. Stalkers are designed for some other game where AoE isn't the undisputed king of everything, and no amount of tweaks to damage and adding crits is gonna make up for that.
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@SBeaudway on Pinnacle, TaskForce Titans Supergroup.
That's probably a design flaw in AOE's, not the Stalker AT.
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Did you mean in preparation for GR or just in general? Because stalkers got some changes back around, what was it, i13?
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Originally Posted by Terror1
I think its amazing that they have gone through all ats but stalkers.
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Just after issue 11. Damage mod increase, base HP increase, Demoralize effect on AS, AS not dropping Hide on a miss, and the increased chance to crit with teammates within range along with crits out of Hide.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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Fury is variable, team composition which has an effect on Fury is situational.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Fury is variable, not situational.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
No Brute is in combat and without the benefit of Fury.
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All calculations of Brute vs. Scrapper are always done at max Fury as if that's always a given on a team.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
And Brutes are ALWAYS more survivable than Scrappers. Not sometimes, always. The Max health advantage is always there.
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Not that I'd mind if more people suddenly started playing Cold, Therm and Sonic in the same numbers that Rad, Kin and Dark get played.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I would not mind that actually.
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I've had several PvE Stalker builds I've wanted to go through with, and then compared them to a Scrapper and saw how far short they came up every time.
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NERF AOE'S!!!! |
Originally Posted by Warkupo
That's probably a design flaw in AOE's, not the Stalker AT.
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Really I was just thinking a couple of day's ago how this game should be called City of Aoe's lol. Anyway I'm wondering if I'll really notice a difference. On my ss/invul I roll at full fury teamed and by myself, but I'm guessing this wont gimp me too much. I pretty much play main or off tank as the situation calls. As far as having uber damage I feel its kinda meh...I'm comfortable resting somewhere in between scrappers and tanks. Also I can't really see what concern there should be about Brutes replacing tanks....what do we NEED tanks for in this game anyway. If an all troller team can pull of an stf, supposedly one of the hardest tf's in the game, then thats just pathetic. They need to make the content hard enough so that Tanks will outshine Brutes in the area of survivability.
I'm still heaps pissed at that it's now 30% it should be atleast 55%, I'm litterally biting the skin off my thumb reading this.
Looking at the new Ancillary options for Stalkers, I'm not sure if I can make the claim that they lack AOE with a straight face anymore. Darkness Mastery houses a lot of little AOE's with some control effects that would probably feel right at home on a Stalker, and Blaze Mastery is offering Fire Ball and Melt Armour for us more adventurous types.
I could probably make the argument that I shouldn't have to wait until 41+ to start outfitting myself with AOE attacks, but I'm not really sure how far I could go with that in light of our sexy new overlords.
Sorry to hear of the nerf. I don't play my brutes as much as my scrappers but I never felt like my brutes needed some minizming or that my scrappers felt inferior to a brute either.
In the end it looks like micromanaging nerfs more than global ones now. If that is the case, I would be a more favorible if they just stopped nerfing.
Wow, this is painful. Perhaps the highest damage dealing brutes outdamaged scrappers, I wouldn't know, but my poor dual blades brute already had mediocre damage output. This was offset by the fact that his fury bar could build well when surrounded by enemies and deal out aoe damage due to his cones and sweep combo. This partly offset his mediocre single target damage ability and the fact that nearly EVERYTHING has good lethal damage resistances, and made him a fun character to play. Not any longer, I'm afraid.
Can't get past 78-79 fury. Fury bar builds slower than it used to. Fury bar doesn't sustain any better than it used to. The new, lower fury cap equates to a 10-11% reduction in max damage output, and it's tough to tell how much reduced overall damage output the new slower building, faster depleting fury bar is going to cause.
Changes like this force us all to have to pick Electric melee and SS-perma rage builds in order to make up the ground that this nerf took away.
yeah this change "wasn't needed" it's like getting deducted pay on your paycheck and saying "hey, I needed to be paid less"
there should have been no change to brutes. forks sake they are messing this game up!
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80 Fury is pretty much what you will cap at under ideal situations (ie solo) with the new formula.
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Originally Posted by Say_NO_to_dyne
Can't get past 78-79 fury. |
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they want us to go play other mmos, it's like they recommending it personally. hilarious and sad management of the game. And I used to think this game was the best. Nothing makes sense.
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Originally Posted by Transhade
Sorry to hear of the nerf. I don't play my brutes as much as my scrappers but I never felt like my brutes needed some minizming or that my scrappers felt inferior to a brute either.
In the end it looks like micromanaging nerfs more than global ones now. If that is the case, I would be a more favorible if they just stopped nerfing. |
Decreased Brute Damage Cap from 850% to 775%. taken directly from the patch notes
they had to nerf the brute, NO ONE would EVER PLAY a scrapper ever again. They take more damage and dish out more punishment! With the new order, Brutes had to be nerfed...sheesh even Tanks got beefier
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Do your thumb a favor and try the changes out. It's not NEARLY as bad as it sounds.
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Originally Posted by GangstaBlade
I'm still heaps pissed at that it's now 30% it should be atleast 55%, I'm litterally biting the skin off my thumb reading this.
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@Demobot
Also on Steam
"Numbers" are just an objective way to measure a subjective design decision. What matters is how it feels. Speaking as a designer, we only use numbers because programmers haven't figured out how to have code interpret how we want a feature or mechanic to feel.
I have noticed so far the change is not so bad. Yea the cap is a little lower but you get to that cap much faster so you are putting out more consistant damage. Now while I didn't want a damage nerf for brutes, I can understand why it happened.
I'll admit I have mixed feelings about the fury change. I just spent a while running through one of my standard AE solo missions on my SS/DA. The reduction in fury and killing speed was quite noticable. Not enough to make the character feel bad/nerfed, just not so salivatingly awesome. On the other hand, the ability to maintain mid-level fury more easily is a clear buff for most situations.
Since fury leveraging had previously led me to abandon the idea of aoe scrappers (outside of sd), and now I'm seeing it as (comparatively) viable again, I'd say the devs hit exactly the target they were aiming for.
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I've always wondered if brutes weren't a touch too awesome, personally. CoV always seemed like "Bots MMs or Brutes, nothing else!" |
Originally Posted by Greyhame
The reduction in fury and killing speed was quite noticable. Not enough to make the character feel bad/nerfed, just not so salivatingly awesome.
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I'm not surprised that they've finally gotten around to taking them down from 11, so to speak.
Well I think that puts an end to all the " no reason to roll a tank or scrapper when u can be a brute" threads . Personaly I would rather the Devs buff AT's and content an not take away from the more popular ones.
Its like if your car is better than mine and instead of fixing mine or buying a new car, key your paint job so we can both suck. Brutes have gotten keyd !! Not completely destroyed, but not as " Pretty & Strong " as they were .
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When trying to make ATs more in line with each other, You can't ALWAYS buff upward. If you do, then eventually all ATs will be too powerful for the game, and the only way to counter that will be to BUFF all the NPCs.|
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
Well I think that puts an end to all the " no reason to roll a tank or scrapper when u can be a brute" threads . Personaly I would rather the Devs buff AT's and content an not take away from the more popular ones.
Its like if your car is better than mine and instead of fixing mine or buying a new car, key your paint job so we can both suck. Brutes have gotten keyd !! Not completely destroyed, but not as " Pretty & Strong " as they were . |
That equates to a global Nerf of ALL ATs - why isn't that more obvious?
In fact, if the Stalker community was as vocal as the Scrapper community, I wouldn't be surprised if the self buff modifier of 1.0 and 0.8 was swapped between the two ATs-- ie a nerf to Scrapper's burst damage and a buff to that of Stalkers.