The brokenness of Ghost Widow and fears of the Incarnate
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-03-30 09:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Like they don't already do that?|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
The more gimmicky encounters are put into the game, the more the player base will demand specific sets and specific builds to beat them.
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I can't log in my fire/rad to check Wentworths without getting deluged with team requests.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Ad Astra
Fine - as long as there is an alternate way for me to play thru the Incarnate content. I currently happily ignore Bloody Bay and the rest and could ignore End Game Raiding - so long as there is roughly equivalent alternate content out there. And by "roughly equivalent", I mean available to soloer or small teams rather than mega teams or teams made "the correct way", even if it's slower or takes more missions or whatever.
If I can't become Incarnate and get the same benefits if I don't raid, then I'm going to be very unhappy. Also, since there are already other games out there that have the big mega raid end game - go play them for that type of content. City has broken the mold of those games, so it shouldn't need to go copy them now without at least some attempt at maintaining it's casual playstyle for the soloer or duoer or parent who plays between taking care of the kids or person who can only play 30-45 minutes because there's homework or whatever. |
Ok...You said it yourself. CoX is already completely unlike a WoW style raid game. A good percentage of the playerbase likes it that way. The Devs *know* this. Tell me again why you seem convinced that the Devs are going to go down this route that's completely counter to what has gone before?
edit. That's not to say that there's nothing in the game that is "uncasual"....you're not gonna duo Hami, and it's just rude to team if you're gonna be afk randomly for who knows how long, but that aside...why are you so convinced that there gonna put in a progression system completely counter to the rest of the progression in the game.?
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
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I don't think it'll be all raid level stuff - but I do think that the new tech of the Winter Lord mission might be related in some way to what they're working on.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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So not only do you throw out a couple of odd combinations that you think week, you then start trying to criticize when people try to optimize them for the challenge ?|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
I'm supposed to have Assault and Maneuvers?
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Personally if I was doing all emp, I'd rather use emp defenders and have some /sonics there, but thats just me.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Hmm thinking the Lord Winter and the new Halloween event this year were test beds for the upcoming Incarnate zone events. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I don't think it'll be all raid level stuff - but I do think that the new tech of the Winter Lord mission might be related in some way to what they're working on.
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If THAT is the kind of zone events they mean, then no, they're nothing like WoW raids and more akin to the public quests of WAR, they're short, sweet and to the point, fun for all the family as it were.
However I do recommend the public events 'scale' most WAR public quests are completable by one team, the more people in the area, the larger the mob spawns however.
It's when they start doing epic six hour long taskforce with bosses that require intimate knowledge of their 'move set' in order to defeat (The 'Heigan Dance' for anyone who has run through Old or new Naxx for example) and take 15-20 minutes by themselves to drop with multiple phases aka the classic WoW boss.
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While the a Winer Lord style one could be made into a 50s only thing by putting a level entry on the clickable entrance object, I don't know how they could make a banner style event be for 50s only - the new events are only in Praetoria, so there'd be lots of under 50s there too.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Hmm thinking the Lord Winter and the new Halloween event this year were test beds for the upcoming Incarnate zone events.
If THAT is the kind of zone events they mean, then no, they're nothing like WoW raids and more akin to the public quests of WAR, they're short, sweet and to the point, fun for all the family as it were. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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On my server, people ran them fairly often during the first week or so they were available, with some catchup at the tail end of the events as well. For much of the time they were active, once the badges had been claimed, there was not much interest in them, because the number of people who could be mustered was too small to defeat them. No, thank God, they were nothing like WoW raids. But....|
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Hmm thinking the Lord Winter and the new Halloween event this year were test beds for the upcoming Incarnate zone events.
If THAT is the kind of zone events they mean, then no, they're nothing like WoW raids and more akin to the public quests of WAR, they're short, sweet and to the point, fun for all the family as it were. |
Success was also heavily contingent on the willingness of someone to relog in on a rad or some similar debuff set; that was a practical necessity. I know, because the events powerlevelled my rad/archery defender.
It should be different in Praetoria, where I presume zones will be designed specifically to accomodate these things, and they will not interfere with other content like Numinas or old contact street hunts.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Having had some time to think about it, I think I can point out the essential flaw in any argument that team based content is too hard in this game. The simple fact is that it is too hard, by design, if you approach it with the same builds, tactics, and mindset that you approach soloing. If you really want to be good at team based content, then yes you take Assault and Maneuvers! Yes you bring a team of the control/buff/debuff ATs that suck solo, because when they have 7 targets for cross-buffing they become tiny gods! But if your idea of approaching team based content is to take 8 characters optimized for solo play, throw them on a team, and play as if you're each soloing x8, then of course you're going to get destroyed, and that's exactly how it should work.
So, Heraclea, here's my suggestion. The next time you're contemplating throwing millions of inf away on tier 3 insps, save that money. Go to a trainer. Select your alt build, and build an SO build that incorporates Assault, Maneuvers, and as many good team buffs and debuffs as are appropriate for your powersets. Encourage your friends to do likewise. Go play some team based content using cross-buffing techniques and tactics that are built around the opponents you are fighting and the allies you are fighting with. And then decide whether team based content is "too hard".
Alternatively, just watch the Repeat Offenders at work. They've been doing this for years.
@SPTrashcan
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Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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One further minor sidebar:
Anyone who resents paying for large inspirations, should of course look no further than the Intern (Crey employee for redside) Day Job badges.
Upto 2 hours of a bonus large inspiration each mission complete, means you can fill up a storage bin rather fast.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Note that Phantom Army, Spectral Terror, and the Phantasm's pet 'Decoy Phantasm' do not count towards the healing Nictus' heal. (Phantasm himself does, of course)|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
On an ITF today which was mostly melee we thrashed him, even i used my phantom army/phantasm/spectral terror + the MMs robots. He still went down like a ton of bricks! [was actually the easiest rom fight i've ever done]
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OTOH, Phantasm has negative resistance to Negative Energy damage, so he'd probably get murdered pretty quick between the mire Nictus and the spawning Nictus
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Originally Posted by NightErrant
Using [Gang War] summons 10 Melee Pets whom Ghost Widow will summarily devour. (Seriously, GW's Dark Regen is a OHKO for them)
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* Summon Posse
* Summon Posse (after 0.5 second delay)
* Summon Posse (after 1 second delay) (50% chance)
* Summon Posse (after 1.5 second delay)
* Summon Posse (after 2 second delay)
* Summon Posse (after 2.5 second delay) (25% chance)
* Summon Posse (after 3 second delay)
* Summon Posse (after 3.5 second delay)
* Summon Posse (after 4 second delay) (10% chance)
* Summon Posse (after 4.5 second delay)
* Summon Posse (after 5 second delay)
* Summon Posse (after 5.5 second delay)
* Summon Posse (after 6 second delay) (10% chance)
(The Posse summoned at the 3.5s, 4s, 5s, 5.5s, and 6s marks use ranged weapons rather than melee weapons, though their AI is set to have them prefer melee range)
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
I have two high level controllers, an ill/emp and an ice/cold. The ice/cold is a lot more fun to play, but does not run missions at all; she'd take half an hour to finish a radio mission, and that's assuming that she stealthed to the end.
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Your Ill/Emp Controller may not be a powerhouse solo, but a team of Empaths is absolutely ridiculous. A team of Empaths buffing each other results in each character on the team becoming a composite of the defensive abilities of both Super Reflexes and Regeneration, the offensive abilities of a Blaster, and a buttload of recharge on the side. (And if you're a team of Empathy Defenders it's even better, because between Recovery Aura and Adrenaline Boost, you get to have crashless nukes.) And that's with SOs.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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It's not that we like or dislike it.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
I expect that quite a few aren't going to like what I have to say; so be it.
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1) We disagree. And when I say we disagree, I mean that the majority of responses to your rant in the Tanker forum disputed your statements based on their personal experience. As do I. We just aren't having the same problems. Maybe you hang out with a bad crowd. Maybe your server sucks. I don't know. But I do know that you do not speak for the majority of players.
In addition to disagreeing with your statements of 'how the game is' and how broken the STF is, we disagree with your conclusions and your prognostications of doom regarding the end-game content. Again, MOST of the responses to your original post of this rant refute most of your points based on their personal experience.
I'm not saying that you're making anything up, or that it didn't happen to you, I'm just saying that it's not the widespread problem you seem to think it is.
2) Yes, you have a whole laundry list of things you don't like about the STF and various parts of the game. You can't please all the people all of the time. I very much like a lot of the stuff you have issues with and really REALLY don't want it changed or nerfed in any way.
Finally, most of the stuff that you seem to be dreading, I'm anticipating. Why? Because it's different. You say it's the kind of stuff that will drive you from this game. If so, that's unfortunate. However, I'm looking forward to it because it adds VARIETY.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I think you are attributing a much stronger feeling to my post than I meant to put in it.|
Originally Posted by Furio
Ok...You said it yourself. CoX is already completely unlike a WoW style raid game. A good percentage of the playerbase likes it that way. The Devs *know* this. Tell me again why you seem convinced that the Devs are going to go down this route that's completely counter to what has gone before?
edit. That's not to say that there's nothing in the game that is "uncasual"....you're not gonna duo Hami, and it's just rude to team if you're gonna be afk randomly for who knows how long, but that aside...why are you so convinced that there gonna put in a progression system completely counter to the rest of the progression in the game.? |
I don't have much experience in other MMOs (basically just being in the same room while my husband is playing WoW or discussing it with his friends). And then there are the umpty-bajillion threads/suggestions here that seem to say that WoW-style raids are what is meant by End Game.
If that type of activity is NOT what is meant by End Game, then what is? This is a serious question, since the primary use of the term as I have seen it here (in Player Questions asking "why is there no End Game?' or "where is the End Game?" and in Suggestions and Ideas suggesting that the Devs should add End Game, which nigh invariably ends up meaning WoW-style raids) is what I dread seeing added.
Am I "convinced" that is what is being added? Perhaps not, but I have no other frame of reference to go by.
Oh and by the way - if that "rude" parent who may need to go afk advises me at the get-go that interruptions might happen - that's not rude, that's courteous, and I will happily team with such a player if I know the situation. Parents like teaming, too.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
I have run a number of Statesmen TFs on different servers as a Stone/Stone Tank, a Rad/Rad Defender, an Empath/PSI Defender, and a couple of Illusion/Kin Trollers. (I dual boxed once with my Cold/Ice Defender, but only because we were one person short for the TF and couldn't get another warm body.)
My Rad/Rad is designed to run TFs, and there has only been one failure with him on a TF, and that was because we had about 5 tanks, 2 scrappers, and me, and we just couldn't take down Ghost Widow.
Ghost Widow and Mako tend to be the roadblocks to doing the Statesman TF. Your team may blow through everything else, but those two can stop a lot of teams that aren't prepared for them. (Mako is specifically why my Rad/Rad has Leadership.)
Having been on TFs that have spent better than an hour trying to take down Ghost Widow in the past, I can well understand the frustration that arises from not being able to finish.
And for the most part, I love all three of the level 50 TFs (Lady Gray, ITF, SF), but I do have to admit that sometimes I feel sort of boxed in terms of the toons that I can play on it. I may want to get the badge for one of my Scrappers, but if I've just spent the better part of an hour asking strangers to do the TF, then I feel obligated to make sure that the people who agreed right away can get their badge for sticking with me for the time it took to build a team, so I may wind up running my Rad/RAd if there's no other debuffer on the team.
But to be honest, my frustration with such things tends to stem more from a lack of consistent teammates than anything else.
Hm. You know that might make for an interesting challenge. What's the gimpiest team that can complete the Statesman TF?
I think I've been on teams that did it without debuffers or Shivans, Warburg Nukes, or someone with the Leadership path, but I can't remember if I've ever been on one that lacked ALL of those things.
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Why would anyone like it, when all your 'points' are either massive exaggeration or pure hyperbole? Every 'issue' you brought up in that thread was promptly refuted, usually by several people, based on their own experience in-game.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
This post is partially refactored from a post I made some months ago at Massively, and some posts I made in a thread in the Tanker forum about tanking the Statesman Task Force. I expect that quite a few aren't going to like what I have to say; so be it.
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I don't want this game to start adding content for which "adequate preparation" means farming the inf to purchase large inspirations at the auction house, because that's what you need to come prepared. I've experienced this kind of raid preparation in other games. It's one of the reasons why I no longer play them. To the extent that best practice for the tanker includes stocking up on specific large inspirations in preparation for the Lord Recluse fight, and those inspirations aren't made available on the map itself, the task force is essentially telling you that you must farm first for preparation if you expect to run it in the way that your teammates will expect you to run it. |
I hate repeating myself, but here goes..
You can't be serious here. I've never even bought a large inspiration to use on the STF, let alone felt I had to "farm" to get them. And that includes quite a few MoSTF runs as well. I usually just go with what I have in the tray. Inspirations are only ONE way for a player to overcome some of their weaknesses when facing a challenging situation. Not the only way, just one of them. Facing Lord Recluse, the signature Archvillain in the game, is by definition, a challenging situation.
There is no content in the game that requires large inspirations to complete.
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| Any game content for which Shivans or nukes are very helpful also causes problems. I haven't farmed for Shivans or nukes much since i13 made all mezzes auto-hit regardless of magnitude in PvP zones. Retoggling your several toggles with a minor offensive output like RttC or AAO is a nuisance even if you aren't simply left waiting to be killed. I don't want any situations where I'm expected to bring them. |
I've never farmed for Shivans or Warburg nukes either. Never once encountered a situation where they were "expected" either. Two years playing this game. TF's nearly every day, often back to back. It may happen sometimes, on some servers, with some weak players, but I've never seen it.
There is no content in the game that requires pets or nukes to complete.
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| WE DON'T WANT ANY MORE OF YOUR KIND |
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| Most scrappers can't fight Ghost Widow: bringing one just means that one of your DPS characters has to be sidelined on an archvillain fight, which explains why melee characters are not in strong demand for the task force regardless of how good they are elsewhere. |
And "sidelined"? Come on now, Heraclea. Even if your claim that all scrappers have to stay away from GW were true, which it is not, that is hardly "sidelined". They still have ranged attacks, either from their primary, from APP's, from temp powers, or from vet powers.
There is no content in the game that cannot be completed by scrappers.
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| Most controllers aren't allowed to use their pets on Ghost Widow, or for that matter on the first three rounds with Romulus. |
As far as the ITF and Rom, I have never once dismissed my pets on my Bots/Traps MM for that encounter, nor have I been asked to. I've offered to dismiss them, and been told not to worry about it. So, again, you are wildly exaggerating the issue here.
There is no content in this game that cannot be completed by Masterminds and Controllers.
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| If masterminds are allowed to run hero TFs, they won't be wanted here either. This is already broken, broken, broken, and will become more obviously so come Going Rogue. |
If you're referring to GW, then you're making a huge assumption here. Bots, Mercs and Thugs are all ranged pets. They could easily be used in that encounter by a competent player. Other MM's likely will have to keep their minions on a leash for this one. They still have a whole secondary to participate in the fight with. This is ONE archvillain fight, in a TF that has quite a few. If a player has to adapt and change their normal tactics, that is not a bad thing.
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| I don't like the idea of content when some characters or ATs are forced to not use their signature powers or sit on their hands. There's too much of that already here. This is what gimmick fights inevitably turn into. People will figure out what the optimal team is to meet them, and if you don't meet the profile, you don't get to run on the character that you want to run. This is already becoming a problem with the Statesman Task Force. |
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I can categorically say that I absolutely do not want any of this kind of crap in City of Heroes. My fear is that they will somehow break the game by adding "endgame", and that the same kind of politics and drama that drove me away from other games will be imported here. Please tell me it ain't so. |
I'll tell you what is truly 'broken'. A game where every player can approach every single encounter in the game with zero thought to their tactics, and just spam the same powers every time, in the same exact fashion, with no thought at all.
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And that is still true, except in your own mind. None of those things you mentioned are REQUIRED for the STF, or any other TF in the game. |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
It has ever been my understanding that it was fundamental to the design philosophy of this game that any team of the required size, featuring any ATs and any power sets, could successfully run any content that required a team. Neither tank nor healer nor buffer nor debuffer were required to do anything. A team of eight ice melee/fire armor tankers or mind/empathy controllers with only SO builds ought to be able to defeat Ghost Widow, in other words.
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| The more gimmicky an encounter is, the more the player base becomes motivated to find a formulaic team that will succeed on it, and this leads to discrimination against character types that do not fit the formula. |
Your approach to teams seems to be one of ME-ME-ME. A team is not a bunch of separate individuals all doing whatever makes them feel good at any particular moment, with zero thought as to group performance.
From Wiki: A group in itself does not necessarily constitute a team. Teams normally have members with complementary skills and generate synergy through a coordinated effort which allows each member to maximize his or her strengths and minimize his or her weaknesses.
I suggest you take a moment to re-read the above. Pay particular attention to the parts about 'complementary skills', maximizing strengths & minimizing weaknesses. That is all that is required in this game to overcome the hardest and most difficult challenges, and there are many ways to do so.
Your perspective on this subject reflects an individual based approach to group content, rather than a team based approach. It seems that you are less interested in the team's collective performance, than you are in your own game experience. You seem to look at any situation that does not allow you to do whatever you want, regardless of whether it hinders the team or not, as being somehow 'broken'.
I just can't wrap my head around that attitude. I'll use your example of the MM on the final mission of the ITF. Even though I have never once had to dismiss pets for the final encounter, if I saw that the pets were causing the team to struggle or fail, I would happily dismiss them and assist the team to the best of my ability using the remainder of my available powers. I wouldn't get mad or sad that I had to change my tactics to help the team overcome that obstacle. On the contrary, I'd feel like I did my part.
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You'll be disappointed to learn that it just got worse.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Hopefully the rest of your post operated on a higher level than your opener. |
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The CoH endgame system is optional - just like all the systems in the game - if it's not something you want to do, or have any interest in, then you can skip it.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
The statement "all the curent endgame stuff in the game is team based" is also false. Slapping an arbitrary minimum team size requirement on something means absolutely nothing.
There are FOUR actual team based events in this game that I'm aware of: LRSF, STF, Hamidon and Rikti Ship Raid. Everything else has been soloed by someone. |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, things like the Mo badges and the Task force Commander accolade power might be kinda tricky to get solo
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But your point is valid, getting those things solo is tough.
Personally, I despise the Reichsman (Barracuda/Dr. Kahn) Task/Strike Forces. I truly hate them. I ran the Dr. Kahn once and it was the 2nd least fun I've ever had in City of Heroes and possibly the worst. It's either that or fighting Mole Machines. On mole machines I got to go afk and hit auto-fire. I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. The whole "giant bag of hit points" felt like fighting one of the practice dummies in the Rikti War zone. An Arch-villain popped out of their little containment thinger and we swatted them like a fly. Then it was back to bashing my head against a post.
That being said, I respect and am very pleased that the Developers design content for different types of players. Granted, I wish the devs designed everything with making me happy in mind. For the good of the game I'm happy they design content for different types of players who have different preferences. All of the content they place into the game has been optional. I greatly enjoy how I can do the content I want and play how I want while other players can do what they want in the game.
I can easily avoid things I don't like: Reichsman, Hamidon, all the old Hero TFs, crafting IOs, buying salvage
and just do the things I like: Playing outrageously aggressive, making fun of teammates who died, making fun of myself when I die, getting made fun of when I die, running villainside strike forces, team teleporting into ludicrous situations, rolling up lowbies and pretending I'm a newbie with friends.
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I've only run into the problem with Romulus and people saying gets the pets away, twice.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
You know I've run a lot of pug task forces, and never run into any of that.
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Never saw the grab huge inspirations for the STF though.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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hmm....I can't say that STF is broken. I have seen many different team setups and they all managed to beat the AV's. It just requires some tactics from time to time and that is something that not all teams are capable of.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
THE SPECIFIC BROKENNESS OF THE STATESMAN TASK FORCE
THE PROBLEM WITH ENDGAME |
If you have issues with the fact that some AT's can potentially be a bit more useless (by themselves) when facing certain foes then I find you a bit unrealistic. There will always be opponents that may be the worst oppenent possible for a certain AT. That's why you have a team.
In regards to insps.....WHY WOULD YOU WASTE MONEY IN AH FOR THESE????
Just go to Ourorobos (yes the portal still works there in STF) and go to the vendor there. He will still gladly accept your money for CHEAP prices. Buy all the purples you want here.
If you insist on having BIG purples then I believe you can just rightclick on the purples that you have bought and combine them to one Larger purple.....a lot cheaper then bidding in AH.
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The Endgame content:
Here I would like to see more as well. I'm hoping for more (challenging) TF's or other refreshing content to get rid of the repetitiveness of things.
AP
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I just can't agree. Having and using pets is as much the point of playing a mastermind as taking point and deflecting aggro onto yourself is the point of playing a tanker. Maybe Gaussian's unplayable arc would have been a better example than anything on the STF. It's been a long time since I've even tried to do anything from that arc, but I haven't seen anything indicating that it has been fixed.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
I just can't wrap my head around that attitude. I'll use your example of the MM on the final mission of the ITF. Even though I have never once had to dismiss pets for the final encounter, if I saw that the pets were causing the team to struggle or fail, I would happily dismiss them and assist the team to the best of my ability using the remainder of my available powers. I wouldn't get mad or sad that I had to change my tactics to help the team overcome that obstacle. On the contrary, I'd feel like I did my part.
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An encounter where any character would find using their key abilities counterproductive would seem to me to go against the design philosophy that's allowed me to enjoy this game for so long, and to instead import things that I found distasteful in other games. I will admit a bias here: melee damage classes seem to always be the target for special disfavor in gimmick fights in other games, simply because forcing disengagement or conferring immunity to physical damage seem to be frequently reused gimmicks.
I want masterminds to be able to play and enjoy all the content, the same way I want tankers to be able to play and enjoy all the content. The more gimmicks are added, the likelier it becomes that your favored class will be disfavored for a mission, arc, or task force. Let's keep it simple and fun.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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But, once again, let me point out that there is ONE encounter in the game where pets or minions are potentially a problem. Ghost Widow on the STF. And 3 of the Mastermind primaries would be just fine on this one with their minions out, since they attack from range. We're talking 5 minutes during one single AV fight out of all the content in the game. That is far from 'broken' as you keep claiming. Controllers with pets have 17 other powers they can use during that encounter. A Mastermind would have every single power from their secondary to use as well. You make it sound as if either of those AT's would be standing there twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do, which is far from the truth.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
I just can't agree. Having and using pets is as much the point of playing a mastermind as taking point and deflecting aggro onto yourself is the point of playing a tanker. Maybe Gaussian's unplayable arc would have been a better example than anything on the STF. It's been a long time since I've even tried to do anything from that arc, but I haven't seen anything indicating that it has been fixed.
An encounter where any character would find using their key abilities counterproductive would seem to me to go against the design philosophy that's allowed me to enjoy this game for so long, and to instead import things that I found distasteful in other games. I will admit a bias here: melee damage classes seem to always be the target for special disfavor in gimmick fights in other games, simply because forcing disengagement or conferring immunity to physical damage seem to be frequently reused gimmicks. I want masterminds to be able to play and enjoy all the content, the same way I want tankers to be able to play and enjoy all the content. The more gimmicks are added, the likelier it becomes that your favored class will be disfavored for a mission, arc, or task force. |
Your concerns and claims have been consistently refuted throughout this thread and the one in the tanker forum as well. The fact that you don't want to be placed in a situation where you might have to adjust your playstyle or tactics, is not an indicator that anything is 'broken' with the game.
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| Let's keep it simple and fun. |
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Originally Posted by Ad Astra
I think you are attributing a much stronger feeling to my post than I meant to put in it.
I don't have much experience in other MMOs (basically just being in the same room while my husband is playing WoW or discussing it with his friends). And then there are the umpty-bajillion threads/suggestions here that seem to say that WoW-style raids are what is meant by End Game. If that type of activity is NOT what is meant by End Game, then what is? This is a serious question, since the primary use of the term as I have seen it here (in Player Questions asking "why is there no End Game?' or "where is the End Game?" and in Suggestions and Ideas suggesting that the Devs should add End Game, which nigh invariably ends up meaning WoW-style raids) is what I dread seeing added. Am I "convinced" that is what is being added? Perhaps not, but I have no other frame of reference to go by. Oh and by the way - if that "rude" parent who may need to go afk advises me at the get-go that interruptions might happen - that's not rude, that's courteous, and I will happily team with such a player if I know the situation. Parents like teaming, too. |
I'm imagining something like GG mentioned earlier...something incorporating the latest winter lord type, seeing as they've mentioned zone events...honestly, though, I don't know. However, I've been here long enough to trust that the devs know the core of the playerbase, and that they know that one of the biggest strengths of the game is that it *isn't* a game that starts at 50.
And yeah, if every one involved is cool with the random afks, it's not a big deal...but when someone's lfm for a TF, it's probably not the best idea to respond if you know you're gonna be afk a lot, is all i meant.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
Quote:
This.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
You know I've run a lot of pug task forces, and never run into any of that.
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Never really found a controller that I liked to actually play. Retired my ill/emp a long time ago; didn't like healing. I tried fire/kin, and deleted the character even while free server transfers were available. I hated the secondary that much, and had to hide from tells to play the character on a team. This character is actually fairly popular on teams, but as far as I can tell her contributions are rather subtle.
Whether teams of eight controllers are better than one is beside the point, though. The more gimmicky encounters are put into the game, the more the player base will demand specific sets and specific builds to beat them.
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