The brokenness of Ghost Widow and fears of the Incarnate
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-03-30 09:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Except that as pointed out repeatedly in this thread, this doesn't happen. It just doesn't. There's nothing in the game that mandates this. Nothing. I've never told trollers to ditch pets for the STF. Never told scrappers to stay away from GW. Never asked masterminds to put pets away for the Rommy fight in the ITF. I can absolutely guarantee that I could finish the STF or the ITF with any team you want to assemble, assuming they are competent players who are willing to stick it out to the end.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
On the other hand, being placed in a situation where you cannot use the playstyle or tactics that are the purpose of your AT is a situation that everyone ought to call "broken".
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| I just don't want there to be roadblocks to further progress along a story line or some other content the way there is with the STF or the RWZ content. |
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The Gaussian arc has six missions that pit you against Vanguard, so it takes a minimum of eighteen days to get through it. Without it, you cannot proceed to Dark Watcher. I've just treated Serpent Drummer as the end of RWZ.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Which content is this? I've never been roadblocked in the STF or the RWZ.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Vanguard are not a roadblock to all characters and builds by any means (hell my Grav/TA has soloed several of those missions happily).
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
The Gaussian arc has six missions that pit you against Vanguard, so it takes a minimum of eighteen days to get through it. Without it, you cannot proceed to Dark Watcher. I've just treated Serpent Drummer as the end of RWZ.
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I dunno, you could run them on oldstyle heroic (0/1player/noboss), rather than dropping them, assuming thats what you mean by the 18 day thing.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
The Gaussian arc has six missions that pit you against Vanguard, so it takes a minimum of eighteen days to get through it. Without it, you cannot proceed to Dark Watcher. I've just treated Serpent Drummer as the end of RWZ.
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Every single character I have tried that arc with solo at that setting has succeeeded with minimal deaths.
The longbow ambushes on the glowie click mission were bugged the last couple of times I tried it. They spawn as allies not foes.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Or just one semi-competent (or better) teammate.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
I dunno, you could run them on oldstyle heroic (0/1player/noboss), rather than dropping them, assuming thats what you mean by the 18 day thing.
Every single character I have tried that arc with solo at that setting has succeeeded with minimal deaths. The longbow ambushes on the glowie click mission were bugged the last couple of times I tried it. They spawn as allies not foes. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I kind of like soloing the Vanguard in Gaussian's arc. It's interesting. Some of my characters die a lot, but that can be more fun that steamrolling everything.
As far as I am concerned, there should be at least one or two things that are hard to deal with. Just for variety.
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Last time I tried, I found that even if the bosses spawned as lieutenants, they still had the boss powers and could still hit you with the Curse of Weariness. At that point, even if you survived the encounter, there's little to do other than leave the mission and log to a different character. I'm not going to spend merits for the temp power.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
I dunno, you could run them on oldstyle heroic (0/1player/noboss), rather than dropping them, assuming thats what you mean by the 18 day thing.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Oh no. The one group designed to give melee'rs a bit of a speedbump (as opposed to the rest of the game that they plow though) actually does just that?
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
heh...I've failed more STF's because we couldn't kill Mako. Can't remember if they toned him down or not...cause I haven't had that problem in forever with Mako.
Ghost Widow is a bit of a hurdle, but that's about it. She is hardly a gimmick oh say...in comparison to hero-side Reichsman.
I've tanked and spanked a STF with 2 kins and plenty of Vengeance (though I think that run was almost 3 hours and this was before Merits), you cannot do that with Reichsman.
Honoree used to be a gimmick fight in the LGTF, but they changed that because only 1 person had that Hamidon aura temp power thing, which was at the time, required to defeat Honoree and if the person with the power happens to DC/crash/whatever and not come back, the whole team would be screwed. So now it's only tied into the story, not game play.
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When I do that arc, I just carry insps. Blues help with the curse...
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
Last time I tried, I found that even if the bosses spawned as lieutenants, they still had the boss powers and could still hit you with the Curse of Weariness. At that point, even if you survived the encounter, there's little to do other than leave the mission and log to a different character. I'm not going to spend merits for the temp power.
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@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
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you're trolling us right?|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
The Gaussian arc has six missions that pit you against Vanguard, so it takes a minimum of eighteen days to get through it. Without it, you cannot proceed to Dark Watcher. I've just treated Serpent Drummer as the end of RWZ.
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if I'm right on the lvl...I'm done with RWZ within a day and I've run many melee characters through it...Stalkers, Brutes and Tanks.
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What about the Abandoned Sewer Trial? Considering the way the temp works combined with a set time limit it would seem like it would be highly unlikely for a non-MM to solo it. Perhaps a Controller or /dark Defender due to the pets and I heard that in the past the pets were stronger.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
There are FOUR actual team based events in this game that I'm aware of: LRSF, STF, Hamidon and Rikti Ship Raid. Everything else has been soloed by someone.
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What the hell are you talking about? Gaussian's arc may be rough with the difficulty cranked up but it's by no means impossible to solo for anyone. Unless you just plain suck.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
The Gaussian arc has six missions that pit you against Vanguard, so it takes a minimum of eighteen days to get through it. Without it, you cannot proceed to Dark Watcher. I've just treated Serpent Drummer as the end of RWZ.
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| I'm not going to spend merits for the temp power. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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I've never heard of anyone soloing it, so it should probably be added to the list.
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Originally Posted by Zamuel
What about the Abandoned Sewer Trial? Considering the way the temp works combined with a set time limit it would seem like it would be highly unlikely for a non-MM to solo it. Perhaps a Controller or /dark Defender due to the pets and I heard that in the past the pets were stronger.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Several TFs (Hess, Faarthiim, Cavern Trial off the top of my head) require simultaneous glowie clicks which imposes a minimum team size.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
There are FOUR actual team based events in this game that I'm aware of: LRSF, STF, Hamidon and Rikti Ship Raid. Everything else has been soloed by someone.
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The Curse or Weariness ... That 5 (?) min temp debuff (used to be much longer I admit) is no rational cause for logging off. Heck I dont ever buy the temp power to dispell it either. When it used to be a long lasting debuff, then there was cause to use temp power. These days there simply isn't
As for the 'surprise' that the bosses keep boss powers as Lts. Well thats complete consistent the whole game. The first Damned/Bone Daddy boss downgraded to Lt you run into should drill that into your understanding.
Stargeek (IIRC) soloed the old sewer trial, by exemping to get it started and to get access to the gun glowie. Marginal edge case, as even the Hydra would have be grey conning. The new auto-exemping sewer trial probably should be on the list.
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Doc Q has 4 simulclick glowie missions
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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True. And that's even worse. "We're not going to make the content difficult enough to require a team, but we will throw in some simul-click glowies to cover that fact."|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Several TFs (Hess, Faarthiim, Cavern Trial off the top of my head) require simultaneous glowie clicks which imposes a minimum team size.
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I'm betting that after I-19, we'll get to take the STF and LRSF off of that list.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I'm sure the stuff in bold should be a mandatory add on...|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
It has ever been my understanding that it was fundamental to the design philosophy of this game that any team of the required size, featuring any ATs and any power sets, could successfully run any content that required a team, provided the team aren't all morons and don't work together well.
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Either way, the LRSF and STF are designed as the hardest things in game. So far. I failed the first attempt at the LRSF, which I was annoyed about, but ONLY because we'd coped fine with everything up until the final mission, and we still lost even with Vengeanced Shivans, which suggests that something broke a little bit there. Numina going buff happy is my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well, apparently I do just plain suck. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
What the hell are you talking about? Gaussian's arc may be rough with the difficulty cranked up but it's by no means impossible to solo for anyone. Unless you just plain suck.
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But my experience is that if you attempt to take point for a team on a Vanguard mission, the result is usually almost immediately dying, and without even the chance to react. And for the characters I like best, if I'm not taking point I'm just leeching. If there is a strategy that allows me to actually contribute by taking point and getting aggro, I have not found it yet.
I've decided to have one more go at soloing the arc, just to see if anything has changed. But given my current experience, I consider Gaussian's arc unplayable. Indeed, it's probably the prime example of unplayable content, and the sort of thing I would be very disappointed to see more of. It's a better example than Ghost Widow is. I just forget it since, unlike STF, I have not run it since shortly after it was introduced. I mentioned Ghost Widow mostly because of a discussion on one of my server's channels about not wanting scrappers for the STF because of GW.
(And the Gaussian arc forces you into the wrong decision anyways. Dietrich is right.)
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Kpfft...like hell she is...|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
(And the Gaussian arc forces you into the wrong decision anyways. Dietrich is right.)
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She's a control freak with a bigger stick up her backside than Libby has.
/Opinion
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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To be honest, that's a bad attitude. There are times when Tankers (which I assume you're talking about) should let another character take point (especially a Controller or a Traps character). It's not leeching, it's tactics. Most of the game can be zerged but it's not always the best option.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
But my experience is that if you attempt to take point on a Vanguard mission, the result is usually almost immediately dying, and without even the chance to react. And for the characters I like best, if I'm not taking point I'm just leeching.
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Vanguard are specifically designed to put the hurt on melee users, as mentioned.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Well, apparently I do just plain suck.
But my experience is that if you attempt to take point on a Vanguard mission, the result is usually almost immediately dying, and without even the chance to react. And for the characters I like best, if I'm not taking point I'm just leeching. I've decided to have one more go at soloing the arc, just to see if anything has changed. But given my current experience, I consider Gaussian's arc unplayable. (And the Gaussian arc forces you into the wrong decision anyways. Dietrich is right.) |
If you're trying to tank for a team of 8 against vanguard and that team doesn't realize what you're facing and act accordingly, then yes, I'd expect you to faceplant regularly.
However, a team expecting you to tank vanguard should damn well be buffing the snot out of you and debuffing them.
Solo? Go to base difficulty and realize that vanguard are to you what everything else in the game is to a squishie. That is by design. Don't expect to run at x8 while solo against them.
That would be like me taking on an aggro cap's worth of autohit Romulus fluffies with my SR scrapper.
Be well, people of CoH.
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What this means to me is that there really isn't a purpose for having a tanker on the team if you want to run this content. The tanker is only there as a favor. The team would be better off if the tanker were replaced by another character who brings something that actually helps. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
To be honest, that's a bad attitude. There are times when Tankers (which I assume you're talking about) should let another character take point (especially a Controller or a Traps character). It's not leeching, it's tactics. Most of the game can be zerged but it's not always the best option.
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Q. E. D.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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This is ridiculous.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
The Gaussian arc has six missions that pit you against Vanguard, so it takes a minimum of eighteen days to get through it.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
What this means to me is that there really isn't a purpose for having a tanker on the team if you want to run this content. The tanker is only there as a favor. The team would be better off if the tanker were replaced by another character who brings something that actually helps.
Q. E. D. |
Is it your feeling that the entire game and all its content should be so easy that anyone can faceroll through it?
Story arcs, or task force encounters where an AT can't use their core abilities, strike me as unfair. And if this sort of thing is basic and unavoidable content needed to move forward, the odds are that the character you want to play will end up being unwelcome on teams running it. I just don't want there to be roadblocks to further progress along a story line or some other content the way there is with the STF or the RWZ content.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison