The brokenness of Ghost Widow and fears of the Incarnate

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If I am playing a tanker there's at least something I can do without being in melee range. On a scrapper, there is nothing. At least, no one here has been able to come up with any plausible suggestions, even if pointing this out is not taken well.

Bear in mind that not every player is even going to have access to a Nemesis staff. Again, what exactly is a scrapper to do in a situation where being in melee range is counterproductive? It seems blindingly obvious to me, even if it's not to anyone else, that in a situation like that any other teammate rather than a scrapper would be preferable.

Take four purples and not get hit?

Wait for the controller to lock things down or defenders to debuff their tohit and damage then move into melee.

Looking back at this thread, I'd like to suggest a bit of perspective. For a very specific example, imagine what a grav/ff'er can do on an ITF. Shout of Command has neutered their control. They have no debuffs for the AV's. Every four minutes they can reshield the team. Otherwise, they plink away with sub-par damage. Consider the things that other AT's can't do. Controllers, for example, have their entire primary essentially negated by the PToD. A level 50 AV will resist over 80% of a defender's debuff. A blaster can easily be one or two-shotted. These are all situations that occur much more often than facing off against Vanguard.

I personally think it's great that everyone has a foil at some point. This is, after all, a team oriented game. What you see as a unfair gimmick to a particular AT can just as easily be viewed as a mechanic intended to reinforce teaming.

There have been dozens of suggestions on this thread as to what to do when on a Scrapper or Tanker, solo or teamed, and most of them did not involve being at range. Since you've raised several scenarios where melee is disadvantaged i can't get much more specific in responding to your generalization because each situation merits its own approach. Thus why the most common theme in the responses to your string of complaints has been to say that one should employ critical thought and flexibility of tactics. (Some specific methods have also been given, but it almost seems like they were pooh-poohed away as not being your single preferred method of playing, and thus inconceivable flights of fancy.)

As previously stated by many in this thread we've all taken on this horrible, broken, evil, unbeatable, melee-penalizing content with our melee types and succeeded. In fact many enjoy it because it requires more team coordination than the typical melee approach of zerging everything, and more caution when solo.

i don't understand why that's so hard to understand.

Then you're not paying any attention to the responses in this thread. Several valid suggestions have been pointed out for scrappers specific to the GW encounter.

*Your least favorite: Scrapper attacks from range. Depending on powerset, vet powers, temp powers, and APP's, Scrappers can have a number of ranged attacks at their disposal.
*GW is immobilized, tanker taunts from range keeping agro, scrappers attack from behind GW.
*Buff the scrapper's defense for that encounter, either by popping inspirations, or team buffs (Maneuvers, Forcefields, Cold Domination, etc.)

None of those involve standing there, twiddling your thumbs and not contributing to the team, as you like to portray.

There's not any reason to get overly concerned about this one encounter, unless it's a MoSTF run. In that case, a bit more caution might be in order.

She uses those powers as often as they are recharged as long as she can get to the target of the attack. If, for example, she is immobilized and being taunted from range, she will not use her Dark Regeneration attack even if there are targets for it around her because she is not aggroed by those targets. This is why the "immobilize, taunt from range, Scrappers attack from the back" method is very reliable (assuming competent teammates, something this thread shows is not as common an occurrence as it should be). Ghost Widow would at that point only be using her Life Drain heal, and it might not even hit the target, only the Tanker might get caught in Soul Storm, but he'd have enough mez protection (external buffs, maybe just not getting hit in the first place) for that to be a non-issue.

Is Heraclea really trying to say "Scrappers aren't good for STFs because they are useless against Ghost Widow?" Please explain to me, then, why I completed an MoSTF with not one but two Scrappers, and Regens at that (no defense to speak of). There is no content in this game that player competency cannot overcome.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

That's basically the majority of the thread summed up in one sentence.
PEBKAC might be the (less than tactful) way to sum it up in one acronym.

That would be ... a bit of an exaggeration.

I would definitely say that Scrappers are characters whose chief purpose is dealing damage. But, they cannot contribute at full potential to one of the more difficult archvillains faced on the task force. The encounter is specifically designed to create problems for melee characters. Most conventional scrapper builds are set up to do damage in melee range.

I think it follows logically from this that just about any other damage dealing character would be preferable to have on a team than a scrapper for that fight. Claiming that the scrapper could use a bunch of inspirations or use a temp power ranged attack instead of his or her primary .... well, I think that makes my point for me, although it's apparently now established fact that I don't know what I am talking about.

I also think that many other ATs are more versatile than scrappers or tankers. In some ways we are like the guy whose only tool in the toolbox is a hammer, so everything looks like a nail. Speaking broadly, we don't face complex issues as to which powers from our powerset work best on the next spawn, an issue even my electric/mental blaster has to consider from time to time. An enemy? Hit it with a melee attack. A mob paying attention to a character that's less tough than I am? Charge it. This is what makes me happy.

I'm not entirely unaware of the problems that the Romans pose to a controller, or the problem that a loose War Wolf poses for a blaster. Then again, that's what Taunt is for. The challenge I like is to shepherd more delicate characters through the content and bring them out of the cave and into the sunlight safe and sound. The challenge I don't like is anything that does not allow me to take that role.

Wait a minute... it's okay for those problems suffered by Controllers/Blasters to be solved via Taunt, a power usable by Tankers, yet...

...it's unacceptable for a melee AT to use inspirations (solving the problem for themselves) or being buffed by other ATs? You don't find that a bit hypocritical?

I don't think people will argue with you here. The big issue I see with your argument(s) is that you're trying to convince us that it's not fair when it's demonstrable that these corner cases exist for all ATs.

It's one thing to say you don't like this type of content, it's entirely another to say it's broken.

Radiation, Dark Miasma, Trick Arrow and Traps Defenders exist to debuff foes. Controllers exist to control foes.

ALL AVs limit their full potential. And what do they do? They work around it. Why should Melee ATs not have to do so for one specific fight?


So it's perfectly fine to have squishies be dependent on Melee ATs, but Melee ATs should not be dependent on squishies?


[Snark] So you don't like anything that takes you out of the limelight? Anything that gives preference to other players is bad? [/Snark]

Now, I know you didn't say that, but that's honestly how it kinda reads.

can you sound a little more self centered please. i don't think everyone knows that they should bow down to you and kiss your feet.

That is just flat out wrong. That is a fact. Whenever I fight Ghost Widow I stand right next to her and attack. Therefore, my experience proves that your statement is incorrect.

(shrug) Stand BEHIND her and participate in the beatdown. That's worked fine for me every time.


I think we would all agree that a custom-built team would be the best for every task in the game. But this is irrelevant. You take what you can get and people bring what they want to play. And, in my experience, that is not a problem. I generally don't run into build Nazi's or team Nazi's who demand everything has to be just so. Once in a blue Moon, I'll get one of those "We can't start without a tank and a healer" morons, but this is RARE. I just don't see any builds or AT's getting 'squeezed out'.

And it's been pointed out to you repeatedly that you not being able to play in your specific preferred method is no indication at all that anything is "broken".

Into each life, a little rain must fall...

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Would it be more accurate to characterize this thread as going in circles or as a downward spiral?

The thread is "broken".

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I do the same thing every time I bring a Scrapper to the STF. I can't recall a single time it's ever caused any problems.

I see and agree with this, but I also get what the OP is saying.

There is, in some quarters, an expectation that certain missions and TFs should be done one way. I am sure that is generally the way that most people have found to be successful but it is not the only way nor is it guaranteed to be the easiest.

Mostly I've found that if failure results from not doing it the prescribed way, it's generally a problem of perception combined with an unwillingness to try new things.

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

Nah, Herac's just stubborn and terminally convinced his view is right (even if he admits it's not shared).

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