Single Worst Powers as of 2010
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-03-07 20:03 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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LOL, in fact, that is how I use it on my stalker (I think I might have pioneered that technique a long time ago; I have discussed in previous threads from years back).|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
From what I've heard and what I saw with a teammate once is that it's only bad if you treat it like a toggle (though it is). It becomes a useful control tool when used as a sort of click power to get enemies off of you or a teammate and then turn it back off.
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Yes, I nominated for worst power and I find it useful. However, the toggle/click method is using the power in a way that was probably not intended. Also, the same sort of thing applies to /da's CoF and OG.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
For the Stalker version, yes.
For the Brute version of Energy Aura, instead of the Hide/Repulse combo, it has a +res passive and unsuppressed stealth instead.
[EDIT] Also, Repulse is simply KB. I'm not sure if Whirlwind has repel+KB but if so that's also a difference.
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Repulse is for stalkers only.
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Originally Posted by Gearsinger
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Energy Aura have an in-set Repel that would serve the same purpose with a lower endurance cost and no need to pick two pool powers?
Is there a specific reason you chose Whirlwind instead? |
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
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For my solo blaster, Sleep Grenade made every fight an "I Win" button. Soloing +4/x1, I could sleep a spawn, then use Cryo Freeze Ray to hold one. Then I'd kill it and hold another. After the second enemy was dead, the third one was still asleep and I would hold and kill it at my leisure. With a tiny bit of global rech it is perma. It makes a great set mule, since purple Sleep IOs are fairly cheap. My solo build eventually became totally single-target focused, based almost solely on the ability to sleep spawns and kill them one at a time.|
Originally Posted by Crop_of_shaolin
muntions-sleep grenade..any aoe sleep for that matter
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Siren's Song in the blaster Sonic set has a much faster recharge and longer duration (72 seconds with a 10 second recharge slotted!), but as a 40' cone it is less easy to use than Sleep Grenade's 80' AE with 15' radius.
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[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
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And yet another power that can't stand up to the name 'Worst'.|
Originally Posted by Eek a Mouse
For my solo blaster, Sleep Grenade made every fight an "I Win" button. Soloing +4/x1, I could sleep a spawn, then use Cryo Freeze Ray to hold one. Then I'd kill it and hold another. After the second enemy was dead, the third one was still asleep and I would hold and kill it at my leisure. With a tiny bit of global rech it is perma. It makes a great set mule, since purple Sleep IOs are fairly cheap. My solo build eventually became totally single-target focused, based almost solely on the ability to sleep spawns and kill them one at a time.
Siren's Song in the blaster Sonic set has a much faster recharge and longer duration (72 seconds with a 10 second recharge slotted!), but as a 40' cone it is less easy to use than Sleep Grenade's 80' AE with 15' radius. |
Either people truly cannot fathom the possible uses of some of these powers or they simply equate 'useless to me' as just plane 'will never have a use ever'.
Sleep powers can be very handy for dealing with problem mobs and downright broken for ATs like Blaster. Solo, my Sonic/Ice blaster is constantly sleeping things left and right. This gives him plenty of time to toss out Shiver and plant an Ice patch between him and the enemy. Then it's disotient>murder single targets until they're so thinned down they pose no threat to anyone.
I am eagerly awaiting Ice melee and Ice Armor for Stalkers. Being able to sleep things in a 15ft radius and then picking them off 1 by one is...oy, that's just so broken...
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I agree. Siren's Song and it's ilk are fairly awesome for the squishy blaster. It's harder to utilize in a team scenario, but by myself it's wonderful to be able to just stop everyone outright and then thin the heard a bit. Hell, I primarily picked Sonic/ for my blaster because of how awesome Siren's Song was. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
And yet another power that can't stand up to the name 'Worst'.
Either people truly cannot fathom the possible uses of some of these powers or they simply equate 'useless to me' as just plane 'will never have a use ever'. Sleep powers can be very handy for dealing with problem mobs and downright broken for ATs like Blaster. Solo, my Sonic/Ice blaster is constantly sleeping things left and right. This gives him plenty of time to toss out Shiver and plant an Ice patch between him and the enemy. Then it's disotient>murder single targets until they're so thinned down they pose no threat to anyone. I am eagerly awaiting Ice melee and Ice Armor for Stalkers. Being able to sleep things in a 15ft radius and then picking them off 1 by one is...oy, that's just so broken... |
It's still useful in a teaming situation. The AOE attacks which are common in teams make it more difficult to use, but it can be a good respite if a group of nasty enemies breaks away from the tank and charges you, or another similarly squishy team mate (Who, generally, is probably around you anyway. Usually when I use this I can't tell *who* they're coming to smush, as I usually don't let them close enough to figure out). It's also useful to momentarily stop an ambush or wandering group who you don't want combining forces with the chaos already in progress.
I feel sorry for Blasters' who only got a crappy stun (which I ALSO got on Sonic, by the way~)
Black Hole from Dark Miasma, which just makes me mad whenever I team with someone who uses it.
Time Bomb from Traps, which is nearly impossible to use and doesn't to much more damage than Trip Mine. Trip Mine can be stacked, though, and only blows when enemies are right near them.
Too many alts to list.
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I take it you've never been on an LRSF run where sleeps were used to single pull the Freedom Phalanx, or an ITF where the nicti were completely neutralized by being slept...
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Originally Posted by Crop_of_shaolin
muntions-sleep grenade..any aoe sleep for that matter
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I see an occaissional person with it. Most recently a SG member, who liked to use it in missions.
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Originally Posted by Oldeb
Whirlwind isn't on the list yet? Does anyone use it?
I know people use to pick it up late as a ghetto version of a costume change emote, but once we got those for real I haven't seen a single person use this. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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You forgot "hyperbole to make a point and sound elitist," which is definitely coming up from time to time. (I doubt Soul Transfer is worse than its watered-down Warshade version, for example, or that the Mental Mastery single-target Fear is worse than the pool power version.)|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Either people truly cannot fathom the possible uses of some of these powers or they simply equate 'useless to me' as just plane 'will never have a use ever'.
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I just skimmed the whole thread, and I'm pretty sure that two thirds of the people here are just whining about pet peeves. (You'll spend an extra half-billion Inf to get that last 5% Defense for soft cap, but the unresistable 12% -ToHit in Flash Arrow is utterly useless?)
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| I am eagerly awaiting Ice melee and Ice Armor for Stalkers. Being able to sleep things in a 15ft radius and then picking them off 1 by one is...oy, that's just so broken... |
For worst power, I lean toward Invoke Panic. It has a couple of minor uses, but it has a large buy-in. The prerequisites are what distinguish it from Time Bomb, and the larger buy-in coupled with lack of build necessity keep it worse than Group Fly and Team Teleport. (I've nearly kicked people from the team for both of those, but there are also builds hinged around them, so they get credit for mattering a lot when they do matter.)
Permafrost is in the running due to having worse resistance bonuses than Temperature Protection and being in a set that already has protection from Knockback and Slow, but it's still good as an IO mule when your build is tighter on slots than powers, and there are marginal cases where the small Resistance bonuses could come in handy.
Jump kick isn't ALL bad, atleast it gives you a garenteed knockdown, just the animation is lame as hell. But is a good power to use if your a tanker or scrapper that needs some more utility to your fights. But yeah, flurry blows, good as a stun, but it is one of the worst powers in the game, IMHO
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I haven't tried the stalker version. But I find Repel useful on my Sonic/Corruptor Kin. It knocks back anything that isn't mezzed and gets close - without waking up other slept targets. It's autohit. I sometimes find it useful for shoving outlying enemies further together so I can sleep them all. And it knocks down bosses. I just need to turn it off when I use a /Kin power that needs to be used close up. This is for my solo build, mind; on my team version I'll have Speed Boost instead.|
Originally Posted by Necromatic
7 pages and no stalker /ea Repulse and /kinetics Repel?
Repulse is really repulsive. |
Bottom line; I wouldn't rate it as one of the worst powers because while it's a niche power, what it does it does pretty well and with minimal slotting. Unlike, say, World of Confusion.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
I hate the fitness set.
Not because it's a bad set (I have Stamina on every toon), but because those are three powerslots I feel obligated to take.
It's not like I'm running out of slots or anything. On my current DP/DM, I gave up empty clips, Suppressive Fire, Fearsome Gaze, and Black Hole for Fitness. (...Well, I gave up Black Hole because it sucks, and I gave up Sup. Fire because it's kind of redundant. As is Petrifying Gaze. ...But man, Empty Clips may have possibly been useful!)
It's just that there's this boring period right after you get your travel power where you have to pick up three auto powers. Up to that point (especially on a Corruptor), every power has been WOO EXCITING! Woo Bullets! Woo Debuffs! Woo travel power!
And then you get to level 16 and it's like going to the DMV. You're leveling... and you're running out of end a lot so it's sloooow...
I'm not sure whether this is a problem with how the game is balanced or what. I know that if I -don't- go through the fitness pool, that End Sucky period WON'T END. On the other hand, making Stamina the last power in the set is just painful...
I've never taken Stamina in my life. As long as I team with someone that boosts end recovery or just pop a blue occassionally I've never had a problem. 
As for the worst powers... Frozen Aura always seemed a bit underwhelming to me. A mag 2 sleep for ten seconds? Whoop-de-doo!
~union4lyfe~
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Many /Ice tankers agreed with your assessment. They agreed so long and so hard that the devs finally noticed and gave Frozen Aura the same damage as Foot Stomp.|
Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
As for the worst powers... Frozen Aura always seemed a bit underwhelming to me. A mag 2 sleep for ten seconds? Whoop-de-doo!
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Greater Ice Sword is still crap, though.
@SPTrashcan
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Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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If you're a blaster, Frozen Aura still deals as much damage as Rest. Which makes sense, since tankers are the AT all about damage and blasters are all about aggro control.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Many /Ice tankers agreed with your assessment. They agreed so long and so hard that the devs finally noticed and gave Frozen Aura the same damage as Foot Stomp.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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This is a true fact. I will still say that Blaster Frozen Aura is not as bad a power as Tanker Frozen Aura was, due to their respective contexts.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
If you're a blaster, Frozen Aura still deals as much damage as Rest.
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@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
Naturally, since tankers are the AT all about damage and blasters are all about aggro control.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I will still say that Blaster Frozen Aura is not as bad a power as Tanker Frozen Aura was, due to their respective contexts.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Rather, since Blasters are guaranteed plenty of damaging attacks, and Tankers are not, so they suffer quite badly when saddled with pure utility powers in their secondary. See also: Clobber.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Naturally, since tankers are the AT all about damage and blasters are all about aggro control.
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In fact, name even one Blaster combo that would benefit as much from Frozen Aura doing damage as /Ice Tankers benefited from Frozen Aura doing damage. In return, I'll name you two reasons why Blaster Frozen Aura is better without damage: Siren's Song, Sleep Grenade.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
So those powers are good reasons and Salt Crystals doesn't exist?|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Rather, since Blasters are guaranteed plenty of damaging attacks, and Tankers are not, so they suffer quite badly when saddled with pure utility powers in their secondary. See also: Clobber.
In fact, name even one Blaster combo that would benefit as much from Frozen Aura doing damage as /Ice Tankers benefited from Frozen Aura doing damage. In return, I'll name you two reasons why Blaster Frozen Aura is better without damage: Siren's Song, Sleep Grenade. |
Why did /Ice tankers need more damage? Were they having trouble keeping aggro?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Those powers are good reasons, and Tankers don't need to sleep bosses because they can take hits.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
So those powers are good reasons and Salt Crystals doesn't exist?
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| Why did /Ice tankers need more damage? Were they having trouble keeping aggro? |
Let's step back a bit. You seem to be coming at this from the position that specialized ATs should only have powers that cater to their specialty. I'm coming at this from the position that even specialized ATs should have a little of everything, because they aren't always in a position where they can focus on their specialty to the exclusion of other concerns. Tankers needed damage in Frozen Aura because, even though a Tanker's "job" is to hold and survive aggro, in practice people don't always play Tankers with a team that includes damage specialists, or even with any team at all, and need to actually deal damage so that they can defeat enemies. Blasters can use a zero-damage stackable sleep because, even though a Blaster's "job" is to deal damage, in practice people don't always play Blasters with a team that includes survivability support, or even with any team at all, and need to actually do something about enemies that they can't kill immediately so that they don't die.
Could Frozen Aura be improved? Sure, but I'd bump the sleep to mag 3, to make it more useful without needing to combine it with Siren's Song or Sleep Grenade, rather than adding damage for the sake of damage and thereby eliminating one of the few multi-target boss-level mez options available to Blasters.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
I am just fighting a battle I already lost because sometimes people do that. |
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Let's step back a bit. You seem to be coming at this from the position that specialized ATs should only have powers that cater to their specialty. I'm coming at this from the position that even specialized ATs should have a little of everything, because they aren't always in a position where they can focus on their specialty to the exclusion of other concerns.
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I agree that extreme specializing can be a problem. Ice Melee tankers have a very controllery feel, and I liked that they sacrificed damage for control. I could agree that they gave up too much damage for too little control, but I would have rather seen them get more control, instead of more damage. Buffing their single target damage in combination with larger AoEs for Frost and Frozen Aura would have been my preferred route.
In summary, Ice melee tankers did not need more (AoE) damage, because they can survive the extra time it takes to defeat spawns (and that is what teammates are for), especially if FA would have worked on enemies outside of an Ice Patch and/or had slow effects added. Other AoE powers were few, so they could control the sleepers and the larger radius would have been helpful on teams, since it would have been a more effective use of gauntlet
I think more people preferred the route they took, so I cannot argue against it logically.
However, Ice Manip blasters, IMO, give up too much damage for too little control as well. Ironically, I think blasters would be better off with damage in FA, because that stacks much better with other blaster AoE powers to remove minions and lts. While one primary and one APP can stack sleep with FA, every primary can stack more AoE damage. Increasing the mag to 3 would allow FA to remove minions and lts form the battle quickly, but then force most blasters to abandon their primary function in order to maintain that.
In summary, Ice Manip blasters need damage in Frozen Aura because they need to eliminate minions RTFN and Lts. shortly after. They need to be able to use their other AoE powers freely, otherwise they are gimping their damage even further than Ice Manip already does.
The one reason I could dig giving damage to FA was that I thought blasters could really use help in that area.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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It makes sense because Tankers get the power as part of their DAMAGE powerset, while Blasters get it as part of their Damage/Mitigation hybrid powerset.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
If you're a blaster, Frozen Aura still deals as much damage as Rest. Which makes sense, since tankers are the AT all about damage and blasters are all about aggro control.
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And while there's no specific power in it I want to call out, to me there's no doubt that Ice Melee is by far the worst (non-pool) powerset in the game. That discussion is outside the scope of this thread, however.
"And texting? 'How R U?' Wow! English is just getting its [censored] kicked. In two generations, that's going to be on chalkboards. And do you know what you get from that? You don't get Ernest Hemingway."
- Henry Rollins
Is there a specific reason you chose Whirlwind instead?