Single Worst Powers as of 2010
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-03-07 20:03 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Hail of Bullets reminds me of a cheesey anime where some overly flashy and dramatic character dances around a lot and then fails to do absolutely anything. That's the immediate impression I got from that power. Somebody considerably failing to look cool.
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Originally Posted by Smoking Baby
Hail of Bullets is the worst power of 2010.
A nuke that doesn't nuke. It's not a utility power, it's not a pool power, it's not some minor 1st or 2nd tier power. It's the final power of the set and for whatever reason it can't even kill minions. It's bad enough the animations lock you down forever, but to have a nuke that doesn't nuke? Gimme a break. |
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Almost like you did last post?|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
Hail of Bullets reminds me of a cheesey anime where some overly flashy and dramatic character dances around a lot and then fails to do absolutely anything. That's the immediate impression I got from that power. Somebody considerably failing to look cool.
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*nudge nudge*
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Rain of Arrows and Full Auto can't kill minions on their own, either. The lower recharge offsets that, as having a big AOE attack is usually quite nice. Add in another attack, though, and those powers do a lot of carnage.|
Originally Posted by Smoking Baby
Hail of Bullets is the worst power of 2010.
A nuke that doesn't nuke. It's not a utility power, it's not a pool power, it's not some minor 1st or 2nd tier power. It's the final power of the set and for whatever reason it can't even kill minions. It's bad enough the animations lock you down forever, but to have a nuke that doesn't nuke? Gimme a break. |
Saw Temperature Protection mentioned a few times... this power is a nice add-on now just for the 20% resistance to slows. Fiery Aura doesn't really have defense, so it's nice to mitigate the many slows in the game. I just wouldn't prioritize it over other necessary things.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I don't have to stand in melee range with RoA or FA. My RoA also has aim and with build up I drop minions easily without a second attack. It's usually the boss and maybe the lieuts I'm finishing off with extra attacks, not the minions.
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I have dreams where I break your lawn furniture, and your upset about it, and I laaaauuuugh.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Almost like you did last post?
*nudge nudge* |
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
Hail of Bullets reminds me of a cheesey anime where some overly flashy and dramatic character dances around a lot and then fails to do absolutely anything. That's the immediate impression I got from that power. Somebody considerably failing to look cool.
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Barney fife tried hail of bullets once, that's why Andy only let him have one bullet after that and made him keep it in his shirt pocket
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Hail of Bullets is like Team Rocket, sure it tries REALLY hard but just never manages to do anything substantial... besides annoy people.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
Hail of Bullets reminds me of a cheesey anime where some overly flashy and dramatic character dances around a lot and then fails to do absolutely anything. That's the immediate impression I got from that power. Somebody considerably failing to look cool.
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It's nice to dream. I dream of one-shotting enemies before they can hit me because they're cowering in fear.|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
I have dreams where I break your lawn furniture, and your upset about it, and I laaaauuuugh.
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Oh wait, no I just logged off my DM/WP stalker
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Originally Posted by magikwand
You, my friend, have a strange sense of what is considered to be awful. Most of those powers are just great in my book.
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yah I think they read the title wrong.
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You know there's a fine line between having a debate on a powerset and trolling. Guess which category you're in. It's like you have some weird determination to drag this on as long as possible. **** off already.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
It's nice to dream. I dream of one-shotting enemies before they can hit me because they're cowering in fear.
Oh wait, no I just logged off my DM/WP stalker |
*Edit* On that note, how do I go about blocking someone? I've never found someone so mentally appalling that I've felt a need to do this before, but it's something I'd *really* like to learn right about now for... Totally unrelated reasons, of course.
*Edit* Nevermind, I found it.
I will say this, there is nothing wrong with Touch of Fear.
1. For a build not at the Defensive soft cap, it can make the difference of making a foe unable to hit you.
2. In a set mostly of mostly single target attacks, the Fear can serve as a virtual hold on one target. Dominators alternate targets trying to do much the same thing. Even if it doesn't fully hold, the fear will act as a slow power.
Touch of Fear is a control power. If you have no need of the added control because you have configured your build, good for you, you have openned up a Power Choice. Its not a required power. But not everyone has that many IO's. And Touch of Fear is a strong To Hit Debuff and Fear is a decent mitigation tool.
On my Fire/Kin, I rarely use Char. I just don't need it. But that doesn't mean Char is a bad power. It would be just fine if I needed a single target hold.
So, just because you don't use Touch of Fear doesn't mean its not good for someone else. And a lot of people have found uses for Touch of Fear.
Lol I've never been ignored for *being* trolled and called names because I was trying to express an opinion while being informative. That's hilarious!
But on another note, really, Hail of Bullets? A power in leagues with Temperature Protection and Repulse? Is it that hard to wait for a scrapper or tank to run in first then follow in on the inside edge of a spawn and click? HoB isn't great but it's hard to imagine it as 'Single Worst Power' or even close.
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Do not assume I am making these analysis with a fully IO'd out toon. If such were the case, I wouldn't be promoting Siphon Life as much as I am because you wouldn't even need that much of the time. You certainly wouldn't need ToF. |
Originally Posted by Talionis
I will say this, there is nothing wrong with Touch of Fear.
1. For a build not at the Defensive soft cap, it can make the difference of making a foe unable to hit you. 2. In a set mostly of mostly single target attacks, the Fear can serve as a virtual hold on one target. Dominators alternate targets trying to do much the same thing. Even if it doesn't fully hold, the fear will act as a slow power. Touch of Fear is a control power. If you have no need of the added control because you have configured your build, good for you, you have openned up a Power Choice. Its not a required power. But not everyone has that many IO's. And Touch of Fear is a strong To Hit Debuff and Fear is a decent mitigation tool. On my Fire/Kin, I rarely use Char. I just don't need it. But that doesn't mean Char is a bad power. It would be just fine if I needed a single target hold. So, just because you don't use Touch of Fear doesn't mean its not good for someone else. And a lot of people have found uses for Touch of Fear. |
Please go read some of the other posts that pertain to this power, as many of your arguments were adressed within them. My argument certainly wasn't "I don't use it, so neither should you."
I am in the process of consolidating an in depth analysis of ToF since I do not think people are going to retain any information if it is not all within one area. This way I can also simply point to a single document instead of sending people on a wild scavenger hunt when they wish to disagree with me.
As an aside, I am baffled (No I'm not) about the general resentment I got towards taking Petrifying Gaze considering how important scrappers view control options. I would think, considering the popularity of Touch of Fear, that Petrifying Gaze would be of higher demand.
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Any type of Tanker with an SO or basic IO build (what powerpools and where you put them SOs may matter) with a Trick Archer who has a SO or basic IO build can do. Neither one of them need to be IO setted out, which is the beauty of the game imo. No verge of dying all the time, if things are done right, from concentration being maintained. Less about skill. I mean what is skill? Pressing keys on a keyboard? Just concentration, using powers on time every time and not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
So I guess if you're talking about the difference between a Tank having 42% DEF and being "soft capped" with a TA along, or your Tank is so incredibly on the verge of dying all the time that the extremely meager benefits of TA tip him just over the edge and let him live, you'd be right. Otherwise, TA is a very poor defense set. It doesn't contribute enough defensively, it doesn't contribute enough offensively, it has no player buffs, and it doesn't offer anything else. Or in other words, while it's possible your TA is contributing some amount, literally any other set would contribute more.
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I've always liked TAs debuffs for their powers effective ability to stack with other peoples powers. Sure some other defender could overkill something like a tohit debuff to levels that a team likes to have but with thought involved, doesn't or didn't actually have to even need. That's why I say TA is a good defender, it's just not for keymashers.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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The problem with Trick Arrow is not the mechanics of having to debuff. The proble is that the numbers are just weaker for Trick Arrow than other sets. Many of their best debuffs are on too long a timer and the controls are just not enough to be as impactful to a team as other defenders are.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Any type of Tanker with an SO or basic IO build (what powerpools and where you put them SOs may matter) with a Trick Archer who has a SO or basic IO build can do. Neither one of them need to be IO setted out, which is the beauty of the game imo. No verge of dying all the time, if things are done right, from concentration being maintained. Less about skill. I mean what is skill? Pressing keys on a keyboard? Just concentration, using powers on time every time and not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I've always liked TAs debuffs for their powers effective ability to stack with other peoples powers. Sure some other defender could overkill something like a tohit debuff to levels that a team likes to have but with thought involved, doesn't or didn't actually have to even need. That's why I say TA is a good defender, it's just not for keymashers. |
You can solo a Trick Arrow and it will work and it is fun, but almost every other buff set is stronger.
If you want to see just how underwhelming Trick Arrow truly is, do a comparison between the Defender version of TA and the Mastermind version of Traps. Then consider that the Mastermind version is supposed to be the weaker set.
IMO, a Defender would be better off with the Mastermind version of any powerset than with with the Defender version of Trick Arrow.
Invoke panic - I don't think I've seen it on anyone I've teamed with during the last year. The aforementioned powers have at least showed up once or twice in power lists when I've checked.
And don't bash Whirlwind too much - I needed it sorely to stay alive on my Energy armor brute by keeping annoying bosses (arachnoids vs Energy armor was a pain when I levelled that one up, for instance) or elite bosses flying around until they were dead. It may be a limited, specific use originating in not having a pimped out IO build, but at least it's a use.
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There are a couple powerset combinations that make Burn rather effective. I have a Fire/Ice tanker who has both Burn and Ice Patch. Put them together, and you have a relatively effective AoE damage attack. Which, with Ice's general lack of true PBAoE attacks (the cone is nice, but its not like /Fire) is quite a boon. Also, using the Earth Mastery APP, you can get Quicksand which will also make Burn a very effective power. Or Arctic Mastery, and throw down Ice Storm for added AoE goodness. |
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Burn is almost useless for tankers since they added "run away from this".
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Hmm... now that I think about it, I think that's exactly what I'll do for my Fire/Ice...
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How about I just play my lvl 50 traps (2 off, a mastermind and a defender) and compare it to my lvl 50 trick archery defender?|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
If you want to see just how underwhelming Trick Arrow truly is, do a comparison between the Defender version of TA and the Mastermind version of Traps. Then consider that the Mastermind version is supposed to be the weaker set.
IMO, a Defender would be better off with the Mastermind version of any powerset than with with the Defender version of Trick Arrow. |
I'd never deny TA some sort of a buff (the right buff) but it is as a defender set, fit for purpose. It's not as useless as some people seem to word it to be, well to me anyway. Played well and teamed with well it should be good enough.
Some people decide to skip on powers that can overcome some of their or other peoples issues really well. I can probably not be far wrong in saying that, many people that they will team with, will only ever play as though there is a empath in team etc or atleast play in a way that some other type of defender would be needed.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I do think HoB needs a little buffing to get it more on par with Full Auto and Rain of Arrows, but yes, most of the people saying "HoB is useless!" are being way over the top. It's almost like some of them expect it be an "I win!" button, when none of the other nukes are. Any nuke can kill you if you don't use it right, and people just need to learn to use HoB right.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
But on another note, really, Hail of Bullets? A power in leagues with Temperature Protection and Repulse? Is it that hard to wait for a scrapper or tank to run in first then follow in on the inside edge of a spawn and click? HoB isn't great but it's hard to imagine it as 'Single Worst Power' or even close.
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Oh, and Temperature Protection isn't that bad anymore with the slow resist, though I wouldn't mind seeing more Cold Resists rather than the heavy fire ones.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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To be fair, I haven't actually tried it out, just saw it in action. It was pretty comical, to me. |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I do think HoB needs a little buffing to get it more on par with Full Auto and Rain of Arrows, but yes, most of the people saying "HoB is useless!" are being way over the top. It's almost like some of them expect it be an "I win!" button, when none of the other nukes are. Any nuke can kill you if you don't use it right, and people just need to learn to use HoB right.
Oh, and Temperature Protection isn't that bad anymore with the slow resist, though I wouldn't mind seeing more Cold Resists rather than the heavy fire ones. |
Couldn't you just Joust the power anyway? Seems like that would get rid of the whole "Ahh, they're shooting me I'LL SHOOT THEM" problem.
speed-whirlwind
muntions-sleep grenade..any aoe sleep for that matter
device-timebomb
just off the top of my head
50 fire/dev--50 dark/thug--50 earth/storm--50 fire/regen--50 earth/thorn--50 kin/rad
50 TA/archery--50 stone/mace--50 Rad/em--50 Cold/Energy--48 dark/elec--50 grav/rad--45 SOA--40 PB--46 Bs/Fire--50 Ar/Dev--50 Trapz/Dark--50 elec/em tank--50 elec/earth--50 Ghostwidow--50 elec/Therm--50 cold/dark
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The problem is that you are rooted in the middle of all the mobs for 4 seconds while the damage ticks away - so not only do they have a chance to alpha you, they generally get at least one follow up attack, since the damage is a DoT and not upfront like most nukes. Then, if you where unlucky and enough of the ticks did not go off (since each tick has only a 50% chance of happening) enough mobs around you will be alive that you will take serious follow up damage. For blasters this can be deadly and a defender/corruptor needs to have some serious defenses/debuffs to survive. |
Originally Posted by Warkupo
To be fair, I haven't actually tried it out, just saw it in action. It was pretty comical, to me.
Couldn't you just Joust the power anyway? Seems like that would get rid of the whole "Ahh, they're shooting me I'LL SHOOT THEM" problem. |
It's definitely not a BAD attack, just not good enough to justify a 2 minute timer.
EDIT: FYI - for those who lost track of the replies, this is in reference to Hail of Bullets, DP's nuke.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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That's what I'm saying though, you could just joust to avoid the being rooted problem. |
Originally Posted by EricHough
The problem is that you are rooted in the middle of all the mobs for 4 seconds while the damage ticks away - so not only do they have a chance to alpha you, they generally get at least one follow up attack, since the damage is a DoT and not upfront like most nukes. Then, if you where unlucky and enough of the ticks did not go off (since each tick has only a 50% chance of happening) enough mobs around you will be alive that you will take serious follow up damage. For blasters this can be deadly and a defender/corruptor needs to have some serious defenses/debuffs to survive.
It's definitely not a BAD attack, just not good enough to justify a 2 minute timer. EDIT: FYI - for those who lost track of the replies, this is in reference to Hail of Bullets, DP's nuke. |
Perhaps it would help to explain what I mean by jousting; Essentially, you take either Super Jump or Super Speed, stand about where you would want to activate the power, gain momentum and jump backwards, forward, wherever, and as soon as you are in the air, activate the power. You do still have to activate it in the middle of the spawn, but the momentum of the jump should carry you far enough away that you are out of retaliatory range of your enemies' attacks.
Unless there's some other mechanism I'm not seeing in play, I don't see why this couldn't work?
That is to say, "defensive debuffs" being anything that makes badguys kill you less. So -ToHit, -DMG, -recharge, or mez. Anything you have to cast on the enemy. Note that +DEF, +RES, +HP, and heals DO NOT fit in this criteria. "Offensive debuffs" are anything that makes badguys die faster, like -RES, -DEF, -regen. Again, things like +DMG do not fit in this category.
Not only did Trick Arrow have the least amount of offensive mitigation AND offensive debuffing potential, but it's also the only set that doesn't also have some sort of buff too. Meaning Radiation Emission, Storm, Dark, even Cold not only have the ability to debuff offensively AND defensively BETTER than Trick Arrow, but they also still have buffs and heals to stack on top of that.
So I guess if you're talking about the difference between a Tank having 42% DEF and being "soft capped" with a TA along, or your Tank is so incredibly on the verge of dying all the time that the extremely meager benefits of TA tip him just over the edge and let him live, you'd be right. Otherwise, TA is a very poor defense set. It doesn't contribute enough defensively, it doesn't contribute enough offensively, it has no player buffs, and it doesn't offer anything else. Or in other words, while it's possible your TA is contributing some amount, literally any other set would contribute more.