The Boot Myth

But see, no problem is there, because you even say you told them you had no SB.

I've been fine with people not having SB.

I've been fine with those with SB not passing it out every two minutes.

What I don't care for are the ones who take it, have team members sucking wind, and don't use it at all.

It's even worse when they complain about even being asked to give it. Which if they didnt want to do, they could of not taken.

And that's what I think most agree on, is an idiot.

I completely agree, if you take a power that can only work on others and then take offense when someone asks for it then you may as well have taken something from the Presence Pool.

I never said that either. The personal attacks are getting old. I'm going to ask you to stop.

So now you realise how annoying some of your repetitive comments in other threads have been?

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I'd like to blame Alanis Morisette.

But isn't it Ironic? Don't you think? A little too ironic...



Anyway, I blame her too. :P

I also blame her for ED.

If I take it, I'll give it to them when I deem it necessary and/or proper. The more often they ask for it/demand it the less necessary/proper I will deem the bestowment.

Especially if they're asking for it while I'm cycling buffs down/up the team list and they're at the bottom/top of the list. Or if they're already under the influence of said buff.

I haven't really started, so asking me to stop is a bit premature.

It's bad when I can no longer tell whether you're purposely taking what I say out of context, or you just don't get it. I'm hoping the former, but guessing the latter. I said if given the choice between a buff/heal bot and an offender, I'd take a buff/heal bot. But--and I say this yet again--I'd rather have a defender that did both (but please, feel free to continue ignoring this part and believing about me what you wish to believe).



Um...yes? You rolled a DEFENDER. Not a blaster. If at any point, at any time, a player puts his/her secondary over his/her primary, that person is playing wrong. If a tankers build takes every single attack, and doesn't work on defenses at all, guess what? He's not a tank, he's a weak wannabe scrapper. If blaster puts his/her secondary over his/her primary, he's a glass scrapper. (You can see where I'm going with this, yes?) I'm guessing, by the lengths you go to defend this playstyle, you are part of the problem.




Yes, and everybody just LOVES KB, don't they? The end result is pissing off the tank and any melee characters, who then have to run to catch the enemy you just sent flying. (Weren't you the one complaining about defenders having to chase players all over the map? Hold on one sec...)


Ah ok, there we are. No wonder you hate doing your job as a defender. When you knock enemies all over the place, it must be a pain to keep up with the melee ATs.

What? You just berated me for allegedly wanting a buff/heal bot, but now apparently I want a blaster? I believe thats what YOU wanted, when you roll your offenders.




See all those words I bolded for you? Those are things Defenders can do only if they make use of their primary powers. And unless you're thinking about controllers, only Dark/ fenders can summon anything. Unless you count the Voltaic Sentinel a pet, I suppose.


You're welcome. Also, I fixed that for you.






Seriously though people, we've diverged from the main point of this thread. What would you kick a person for--if you kick people (and some people talked about personal experiences)?. I've already said what I had to contribute, and I have no wish to continue back and forth in this endless cycle.

Please collect your things before disembarking from the train. Have a good day.

Actually, it seems to be more about the way you express yourself. For example....

No, they most certainly are NOT. It's not your call, and there is no "right" or "wrong" here, only your preference.

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

And what of the AT's that can have their entire primary marginalized by other members of the team or game mechanics? Do you want the third Force Field Defender on the team to keep buffing? Do you want a controller to sling controls in an AV fight or pay more attention to their secondary? What of an empath on a team that's buffed to the gills? Maybe the problem is you don't realize what an Offender is or how potent they can be.

This one I will kick if I'm only gathering a small team. In a large team people's weaknesses fade, but no matter what a Petless Mastermind is not carrying his weight. It really doesn't matter in an 8 man team, you can slack off a bit (or be a basically useless build). I duo'd with one of these and it was worth nothing but progress towards my debt badge. An hour later he came back insulting me in broadcast and saying "see? I finished the mission without you!".

He probably still to this day doesn't understand what's wrong with dying 8 times in a mission and why I didn't want to be involved in that. I'm not a powerleveller by any means.. it took me 3 years to finally get someone to 50, but ugh.

I am NOT looking forward to all the idiotic petless Belmonts coming up.

Funny thing about that, so does my wife. If we're thinking of getting intimate and one of her songs comes on the radio, man it's time for snuggles instead. That chick's voice is the opposite of alluring.

Some people just can't stand being shown up

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I've never had that, though on my scrapper I often get complained about, and have once been kicked* for putting tanks to shame. If you want to go in first, it's your job to ensure you stay in front of me



* Note that when I get complained at for jumping into mobs before the tank, I explain that I can usually take it (<3 softcap + Aid Self ) and if I die, well, it's only a wakie. Most accept this and let me be an idiot, though if they continue complaining, I stop doing it as I understand that not everyone likes how I play. The time I got kicked, the tank (who was the leader) seemed to accept me doing it. Then he kicked me along with a tell saying that I needed to learn how to play.


As to the question of kins without SB and so on, my attitude is that if you don't want to use it, fine, don't take it. I might remark on it and ask why, as the person could easily be a newbie who doesn't know whats good yet, but if they just don't like the power, I can understand fully: I love everything else about the kinetics powerset, but I despise having to rebuff every 2 minutes. The point of the game is to have fun, so build the character that you enjoy playing. If you know that it's the norm to do otherwise, it's nice if you mention before we start that you've not taken SB or have some other "odd" build, but that's just courtesy.

However, if you have taken a power, I expect it to be used. I won't kick unless it's really bad (say, an empath with 1 blast who only uses that one blast and nothing else...), but I will start complaining a lot if you have something that would be really useful and it's sitting there unused.

Obviously, you don't really understand the concept of an Offender. Offenders use all of their abilities to aid their team, not just their primaries. My Emp/Elec Defender does just that. You know why? Because every little bit of Endurance and health that I can drain off of the bad guy helps the team. Not just my 2 heals, Fort, CM, RecA, RegA, and AB. Or the occasional Rez when RegA wears off at an inconvenient time.

If you were to tell me to stop blasting away, just so I could heal you more. I'd do one of two things. Quit the team (which would be the polite thing to do) or I would just not buff you.




That makes me very happy that I won't be teaming with you. Because I'd be bruising your delicate ego with my Controller that can tank better than many Tanks that he's teamed with.



I love KB. Even on my Melee characters. However, I know how to use KB. I have found that those who whine and complain the most about KB never learned to use it properly.

In other words, Lrn2Play!



No, he had it right. You want Defenders to have you on Follow with their buffs on auto because you haven't actually learned to play with others yet.



About the only thing I would kick someone for is them being a jerkwad who thinks they know the "only" way to play the game. And yes, I have kicked people from my team before.

Now, here I think you're wrong. I have an Elec/Thermal Corr. And unless you're actually draining those mobs, then every bit of end you're draining, isnt helping if they're still attacking alot.

But that's more of Electric Blasts failings.

Most of the min-maxers I know are more concerned with their personal performance than that of their teammates. In fact, they're probably the people like;u to skip a power that doesn't benefit them and be kicked off a team.

I'm speaking of the occasional control freak that demands absolute success from their teams. No deaths. No restarts. No nonsense.

You know, I still think if you're advertising yourself as your powerset, you should be including that you skipped the team buffs before you get on a team.

ex...

"Lvl 48 Thermal Defender lft"

I'm going to invite (if looking for a defender) because, besides those debuffs, I'm thinking "Yummy Sheilds" (and having two thermals at 50, I cant see why you wouldn't take them, they cause you to have to spam less of the heals to begin with).

but that is small potatoes compared to...A petless MM.

While I've only ran into one, and didn't kick him from my team, I promose you, I didn't invite him back.

"Lvl 32 MM lft" I expect to see they're being a Mastermind over something.

"Lvl 32 Perless MM lft" I can at least know if I invite them, I'm getting a weaker Corruptor basically. A LOT WEAKER.

However, saying "Lvl 32 MM lft" and I invite you to the team, and you don't have pets, I wouldn't be happy. You see MM lft, you're thinking "hmmm...pets for damage, and some buffs/debuffs...unless it's a forcefielder/thermal...then it's only a 50% chance they'll even give the buffs to the team"

(I made that 50% up But, I've seen enough MMs do that. )

I wouldn't hold it against anyone for kicking a petless MM. How could anybody. I understand it's about having fun. But...let them know!

Out of context? There's a good context for snide, derisive comments like "wanna-be blaster" and unfriendly sentiments toward defenders who blast? Like you were actually complimenting defenders for attacking, and I just twisted it completely around to make you the bad guy?

Yes, that has to be the answer. I "just don't get it". After over 4.5 years, after playing every AT, after hitting 50 with several different ATs, after burying myself up to my eyebrows in the mechanics of the game, after writing several popular and widely read guides, I "just don't get it".

You've also said "why should defenders be asked to do their job" (in context, buff you), and "you rolled a defender, not a blaster" and various other things which contradict that. You make snide remarks and veiled implications about defenders who attack, then you turn around and insist that it's just dandy.

In your own words, you don't want your defenders blasting when the team is in trouble, yet half of the defender primaries have limited or no means of disaster response, and of those that do, it's a gamble using them because they might result in the defender being yelled at for doing the only thing he/she could (such as Phasing foes). So what do you want them to do, stand around picking their noses?

No. Get a dog.

And you created a scrapper, or a tank, or a controller, or a blaster, or a Kheldian, each with options to improve survivability. Use them once in a while and you may find that you don't need a defender to keep you alive.

Furthermore, we create characters with the tools available. By design, AT has been relegated to little more than an identifier and a method of differentiating between strengths of effects. This is not WoW, EQ, SWG, LotRO or even the City of * of five years ago. Everyone can buff, debuff, control, deal damage, heal, tank, etc., and no-one is expected or required to fill a "role" or "job".

No, actually, they aren't. That's the kind of thing the developers expect us to do, and they encourage it. The more we expand game play by doing things differently, the more they can expand game play by challenging us in different ways and creating new and different options.

How you imagine the game would be if you were in charge isn't the way the game really is.

Or it could be someone who hasn't fleshed out a build fully yet, or someone with a specific concept which couldn't be fulfilled by any other option, or someone who realized that having 40% more base HP provided sufficient mitigation to allow him/her to work with less defensive measures, or any number of other things.

Or what I said above could apply here as well. Who are you to decide that someone who enjoys playing a blaster in melee range is wrong? Are you paying that person's subscription fee? Are you on the development team? Have you even contributed anything to this community to foster a change for the better?

Yes, I'm one of those evil, spiteful people who exercises creativity and designs characters without regard for AT. Unfortunately for you, I not only have developer approval for my actions, but I may have even inspired them.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114451

Kinetics Melee is coming out with Going Rogue, four and a half years after I made my Kin scrapper.

The KB discussion happens almost weekly here, and the overwhelming majority of posters have no issue with KB. Personally, I love KB, even when I'm playing melee characters. I've never heard one complaint about KB when I was in a team, not about my KB or anyone else's. I've even prevented team wipes and completely reversed disasters with KB, and ended up with numerous in-game friends as a result.

So, should we expect Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster to swing by and support your statement about players hating KB? One good myth deserves another, after all.

The tank and other melee characters will live, longer thanks to that KB, and all they have to do is hold down the W key for 1s or use a ranged power, like Taunt, Confront or an attack to regain aggro, or switch to a different target and allow the person who knocked the other one(s) back to deal with it (them). It's called "adaptability".

Players. People with brains and wills of their own, running away in different directions and not paying any attention to each other. Not critters being knocked a few feet to a completely predictable and typically easily reached location.

Broad side of barn: missed.

Or pool powers. Or temporary powers.

Traps, Storm Summoning...

That occurred seven pages ago.

Look, honest advice: talk to your teammates. I have social anxiety disorder, so it's extremely difficult for me to talk to people. But I make it a point to talk to my teammates so I know what they need or want from me, and so they know what I'm capable of doing for them. You need to do that, too. You need to communicate with your teammates. If you don't tell your defender that you want Speed Boost (there are a surprising number of people who don't), or that you'll come to him/her for Accelerate Metabolism (few things are as irritating as informing your team that it's recharged, then waiting twice as long before you can use it because some jackass was three miles away and ignoring team chat, but whined and moaned when he/she missed it), or whatever, then you have no grounds for complaining when you aren't getting buffed. Yes, there are inexperienced players who don't know what those buffs do, who to use them on, etc. Yes, there are players who get tunnel vision and forget to buff. Yes, there are players who actively avoid buffs. But by not speaking up, you are as much part of the problem as they are.

Talk to your teammates. Blowing off passive-aggressive steam on the forums won't solve anything.