Global @StarGeek
ParagonWiki.com-The original is still the best!
My Hero Merit rolls
Accuracy needed for 95% ToHit spreadsheet
Forum font change stripper for Firefox/Opera/Chrome. No more dealing with poor color choices, weird fonts or microscopic text
Search Wiki Patch notes, add site:ParagonWiki.com inurl:patch_notes to your Google Search
Quote:
I have several Offenders. The idea that Defenders are delicate flowers that shouldn't have to worry about using half of their powers is frankly ludicrous. There are times when a Defender needs to focus on their buffs/debuffs in order to keep the team alive. In other situations nothing is needed and the Defender should focus on blasting. Most of the time the situation is somewhere in the middle and the Defender can blast in between buffing and debuffing as required. The point as it regards this thread is that in all of these cases the Defender needs to HAVE his blasts available so that he can use them. Defenders aren't Blasters and shouldn't focus on blasting to the exclusion of all else but conversely they do have blasts and should use them when their other abilities are unneeded or still recharging.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
On any other AT than a Defender I'd agree with you. Defenders are a special case, though, and require an exception to the normal rules. If several members of the team is in the yellow/red, would you rather your defender be an offender (that is, a defender that likes to attack)? If your buffing defender neglected to put buffs on you because he/she thought she was a blaster, would you still be amused? You may think; "Hey, those are a bit extreme!" Yes, they are, but it makes my point. It's very rare running into a defender that can keep buffs/heals perma'd on the team, but still attack. For me, it would depend on the circumstances. If the team is plowing through the enemies without a care in the world? Go for it, you wannabe blaster! If the team needs a dedicated healer/buffer, please keep your priorities in perspective. Looking at it in a 2D manner such as that...just doesn't work.
|
And yeah, thread necromancy is bad m'kay?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StarGeek
|
Just from last month - that's not even in the top 10!
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
I saw the title, and thought we were going to be talking about shoes.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
The only time I've ever felt the need to kick someone over power choices was a Dual Pistols/Pain Dom Corruptor.
She didn't want to heal the party. At all. "I didn't build this character to be a healer. I hate being the party's heals!"
Why? Noone knows! She had the three heals and the rez from Pain Dom, but she just wasn't willing to -use- them, even between fights!
-Rachel-
Quote:
No, you're not lucky. Triumph is a better server than most. Friendly, helpful. Modest. Honestly. Great server. Come on over, folks. Have some fun for a change.
|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Maybe I'm just lucky, or perhaps Triumph is just a better server than the others, but in my experience, you are not going to get booted from a team based on your power selections.
|
Quote:
QFT. And frankly, once my ice/ice or sonic/sonic blaster has applied buffs, what did you want me to do? Those buffs are good for about two large spawns. Even an empath usually has time to attack a bit, but certain defenders would be standing around doing nothing much of the time if they ignored their attacks.
|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I have several Offenders. The idea that Defenders are delicate flowers that shouldn't have to worry about using half of their powers is frankly ludicrous. There are times when a Defender needs to focus on their buffs/debuffs in order to keep the team alive. In other situations nothing is needed and the Defender should focus on blasting. Most of the time the situation is somewhere in the middle and the Defender can blast in between buffing and debuffing as required. The point as it regards this thread is that in all of these cases the Defender needs to HAVE his blasts available so that he can use them. Defenders aren't Blasters and shouldn't focus on blasting to the exclusion of all else but conversely they do have blasts and should use them when their other abilities are unneeded or still recharging.
And yeah, thread necromancy is bad m'kay? |
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Been kicked for asking the tank why he didn't have mez protection at L24, and for using Seeds of Confusion on my troller in a Posi TF (stop stealin XP!). I'd never kick anyone from a team unless they were making things less fun.
I had a friend who was kicked for being a FF Defender, and not having the Medicine power pool. Seriously.
But I have fantastic luck with teams. I have never been kicked for having an all Support FF Defender, or a petless MM, or having travel powerless toons before we got Jet packs and Ninja Run. I do, however, mostly team with people I know.
Quote:
No Tar Patch? You might like that for damage-dealing.
|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
one of my toons (actually my main toon) has a very unusual build for a mm, hes a ninja/dark but only has 4 dark powers (heal, shadow fall, howl twilight, and servant), because i build him up to be mroe of a dmg dealer
|
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Is the defender using his/her blasts to knock enemies down/back, drain their endurance to nothing, reduce their hit chances significantly, slowing their attack rate, thus reducing or outright eliminating incoming damage and therefore giving the team time to recover?|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
On any other AT than a Defender I'd agree with you. Defenders are a special case, though, and require an exception to the normal rules. If several members of the team is in the yellow/red, would you rather your defender be an offender (that is, a defender that likes to attack)?
|
Is the defender a debuffer with primarily click buffs or debuffs, most or all of which were already used and cannot be stacked, and who therefore has little else to do other than blast?
Are you aware that Empathy isn't the only defender primary?
Quote:
| If your buffing defender neglected to put buffs on you because he/she thought she was a blaster, would you still be amused? |
Quote:
| You may think; "Hey, those are a bit extreme!" Yes, they are, but it makes my point. |
Quote:
| Looking at it in a 2D manner such as that...just doesn't work. |
The only reason I ever kick players for power reasons is if they've severely gimped their build. My particular insta-kick builds are as follows.
A petless Mastermind. (No, I don't care if you "made it work." You'd be about 10 times better with your pets.)
A healing build with no heals. (Hi, I'm an Empath. All I have is Healing Aura and Clear Mind. I took all of the Concealment and Presence pools!)
A support build with no support. (Hi, I'm a Thermal. I only have Healing flames, but I have the Fighting pool!)
A "pure-healing" or "pure-support" Defender. (Yeah, you just keep rockin' that aura.)
Basically, any builds that have several limited their potential either on purpose or due to lack of experience. Like a Tanker who doesn't take hardly any armor powers, or a Controller who focuses only on support. If they are new to the game, I'll try to explain how to make better power choices, but other than that don't expect to stay on my team for long if you've purposely gimped yourself.
Arc ID: 348998 - Becoming a villain
Arc ID: 373341 - To Save a Hero
Got Inf?
Last week I played on a team that had a level 31 Stone tanker that did not run his toggles. Yeah. I'm not kidding.
He entertained himself by trying to run past spawns without getting killed. Of course, he died constantly, usually after running back to squishies who tried to save him, who then were killed as well.
Astonishingly, the team leader did not boot him. After I left the team I asked him why: he said he was afraid if he booted the idiot the idiot would petition and the leader would have a black mark against him.
It really depends on what im making to decide what to kick if i have to...
I fear people will kick my troller toon for not having SB...i've decided i've put of making a kin for long enough just because its defined by one power.
MM without pets...are good if they have a good secondary and the team for a mish or tf/sf is fine..
Quote:
I'm throwing a flag on this one. How do you know he'd be ten times better with pets? I've seen plenty of MMs with pets that still suck cause they don't know how to control them. Is his lack of pets making the team die more than they would otherwise? Or is it just taking a bit longer to kill things? If it's the latter, that's not really as big a deal as some folks make it out to be.| A petless Mastermind. (No, I don't care if you "made it work." You'd be about 10 times better with your pets.) |
Odds are most folks are too busy worrying about their own character to know what's going on (or not going on) with the rest of the team once the fighting starts.
Kick a dude for being a <feminine hygiene product>. Kick him for being AFK too long. Not choosing the powers you'd like them to have isn't their fault, nor their problem. And if you choose to boot them before you can see what they can do for the team, it's you being the <f.h.p> .
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
I've only been kicked a few times for my builds. Once or twice on a Kin who did not have SB. Once on a Stone Tank who had Stealth and did not have Teleport. Once on a Trick Arrow Defender for being a Trick Arrow Defender. Once or twice with my Energy Blast Blaster for AoE KB that I wasn't causing. And once for a petless Robots/Trick Arrow Mastermind (Rambo 20X6).
Oddly enough, I never got kicked while playing Togglobite, my Spines/Dark Scrapper. Given that he doesn't dish out much damage at all, I always expected to get kicked with him.
For my part, my teammates' specific builds don't matter much to me. If I find that they've skipped something I deem vital (for instance, a Tanker sans key toggles) I may mention it. But as long as the team can move forward at a reasonable pace or otherwise generate a fun factor, that's all I care about. If we're faceplanting once or twice every group and the leader (who is NEVER me, for I have an allergy to stars) won't lower the difficulty or something, then I'll politely take my leave.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
/this|
Jophiel has my mind: This game is so easy that, short of someone actively harming the team (perhaps by causing wipes via training mobs), I can't imagine getting worked up over a gimped build. |
Back in the old days (I6) I used to get kicked frequently for being a TA/Archery Defender and not having "heelz". Which was just okey-dokey with me, as I'd rather not even play with people of stupid mindsets like that.
Dec out.
Quote:
Off-topic, but I used to love my old roomie when he'd work long hours. All I'd have to do is look at him and say something stupid like "Banana!" and have him rolling on the ground holding his sides. |
Twisted Toon has cause: Of course, the 6 weeks of 60 hours weeks at work might have something to do with the low laughter threshold I have. |
Dec out.
My favourite 'kicked from the team' story was from a long time ago.
Team leader had recruited 2 /kins to aid his recovery. We entered the mission and he demanded that he is kept double speed boosted. any time this double speed boost dropped for even a second he would start berating us. The fact that he continually charged away from the group that the rest of the team was fighting to go aggro a new group that he could then leave for us didn't make this task easy.
It came to a head when he told both kins how terrible we were because we weren't able to do our single job.
'Just keep SBin me'.
So we did.
Constantly.
Repetitively.
Without respite.
He kicked both of us.
We had, however, prepared for this and waited outside the mission for all the rest of our former team-mates to appear after they had quit and invited them to a much more pleasant team where most people were double speed boosted for the vast majority of the time.
Quote:
It's less bad than starting a new thread about something already existing, though. I don't get the thread necromancy hate here. It's one thing if they're just popping it up to pop it up, but if you're staying in the topic, I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, as mentioned, it's better than starting yet another new thread.
|
Adeon Hawkwood has something I've been meaning to mention: And yeah, thread necromancy is bad m'kay? |
Dec out.
I'm just going to say one thing here:
Petful Masterminds are actually a serious drag on the ITF, because Romulus' healing Nictus has six more targets to drain from, making him all but impossible to overcome the conventional way, and I'm not aware of any other ways that work. I've personally been that drag on at least two ITFs, the last one of hich I basically had to unsummon my henchmen and play Defender until the healing Nictus died resurrecting Romulus for the third time. I can't imagine what a full team of 8 Masterminds would do against him. Even the most conservative estimate put this at 56 targets to drain from.
That said, I did a Respec trial with four Masterminds and we did pretty well, failing only because of sidekick Go Fish.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
What abput blasters who skip most of their Secondary? Like alot of /EM blasters?
|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
There are only two types of characters I'd kick, petless masterminds and defenders with no powers from their secondary other than the mandatory one (and sometimes the stun).
Actually I'll expand that slightly. I would kick anyone, regardless of AT, who seems to be ignoring one of their two powersets. However I've never encountered anyone doing that on another AT. I don't expect people to take all powers from both powersets and I don't care that much WHICH powers you take. However you should look as if you're making the effort to use the set in the way that it was intended (which for Masterminds means taking the pets). That being said I rarely bother to check people's power selections so I normally only notice if they either tell me up-front or I happen to notice them behaving wierdly during play. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I have never been kicked because of my build despite the fact that like the OP I take powers for the concept I have.
I run teams all the time on Defiant and I've never kicked anyone for their power choices/slotting, however that being said perhaps it's reflective of the player numbers as often the teams can be a little unbalanced due to the available AT's online. In fact recently I invited a player to my team of 5 who said "woah huge team!" 
For me it's about having fun and not just steamrollering through enemies.
My deviantART page (warning some images nsfw)
GGRRR Comic Series GGRRR Comics on Facebook
While I don't pick for power choices, I will kick if the player is ignoring a power they've taken that would would be extremely helpful; after asking them nicely of course. For example, if we get a /kin controller who hasn't taken SB then that's fine by me. But if they've taken it, people are asking for it, and they're not dishing it out, then they're probably not going to be around much longer. Generally I'll only kick for this kind of unhelpful playing, leeches, and rude people. Other than that, I'm pretty easy; bring your petless mastermind along. Your pure empath if you like. As long as you use the powers in your build, no matter how obscure a build it may be, bring what you like.
However, I know that there are definitely some real mean and idiotic team leaders out there. My favourite one was when we were doing some missions in the Rikti War Zone. Everything was going smoothly until after around three well-played missions, the tank was kicked from the team.
"He took fly. SS is a much faster travel power."
Of course, we told the leader he was being ridiculous. When he wasn't swayed, we reformed without him with the kicked tank as our new leader.
I'm a blaster. My hit points suck. I have no real defenses (well, maybe a paltry fire shield). Some folks may love the idea of wading into battle and being pounded on, but as a soloist, I don't. I belong in the air, raining down death and destruction from a safe distance. Bullets hurt a hell of a lot less than fists, in my experience.
But, if I took Fire Sword, Fire Sword Circle, Combustion, Blazing Aura, Consume, Burn, and Hot Feet, I'd have to be within melee range for them to be effective. That's not where I want to be. On a team, where healers and buffers can mitigate the damage, it's a different story. On my own, I'm just asking for a face plant.
So the only powers I take from that set are Ring of Fire and Build Up. They fit the concept. I may take others, but only if I have to because nothing else is available. And if I take them, it's exceedingly rare that I use them.
Would you kick me from your team because of that?
In practice I am a lazy, lazy man when it comes to forming teams. I pretty much take whomever wants to join and don't bother to check powersets. Unless you specifically told me that you weren't using your secondary the odds of me noticing are pretty low. Even if I noticed I'd probably just sigh and ignore it. I don't like Blasters who ignore their secondary but they are probably the AT where doing so has the least impact on team play. In practice the only ATs were I'm likely to notice are Defenders who don't attack and petless masterminds (ok, I might notice a Tank who repeatedly faceplants).
So no, I wouldn't kick you but if I got a tell saying "Hi, I'm a Fire/Fire Blaster with only ring of fire and build up from my secondary" and one saying "Hi, I'm a Fire/fire blapper" I'll take the blapper thank you.
Even with other characters who ignore half their powers my problem isn't so much that they are ignoring their power it's that they are so damn smug about it. Admittedly it's a small sample size and they were all Empathy Defenders but they all insisted that their build was the one true way to build an Empathy Defender.
While everyone is talking about what they would boot for--For me, it's 3 things, 2 of which I would try a warning first.
1. The AFK'er. The guy that either sits there, or floats along behind team, doing nothing. Conviently enough, usually coming back from afk's to get to next mission and afk again.
2. The bad player. The guy that harrasses or makes things difficult for other players on the team.
3. The 'This is a tf, jerk' player. Everyone has had this at least once...the guy that decides he has to go after the first mission in the 2+ hour long tf, saying "Gotta go, sorry," and logging without quitting the team--only to SOMEHOW come back just in time for the last mission. I will kick this player as soon as I see him heading towards the mission--no remorse. He does not deserve the badge.