Twisted Toon

Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid

..............
Just reading that makes me feel like I should be apologizing for being a man.

Originally Posted by SteelRat

This.

I'm not a cynic, I'm a realist. We can "rouse the troops" all we like, but you're talking about an 8 year old game with a playerbase in steady decline from 2009. Whilst we the die hard fans might think (and quite rightly) that it's a game and IP worthy of saving, the en masse gaming populous does not, and therefore neither do the suits at NCSoft whos decisions are governed by their P&L statements, not the misty eyed sentimentality of a few thousand players who won't let it go.

Players are spoilt for choice at the moment. There are a lot more games available than there were in 2004 and a whole load more in development. If you think that making a big noise about an old game that a large number of people for what ever reason have already decided they don't want to be part of in the place of that sort of marketplace, then whilst your tenacity to the cause and belief in the IP is admirable, it's a little misplaced.

I'm not knocking you for having that opinion or belief; more power to you, but please don't label me as an unwilling cynic just because I've accepted what is.

Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker

With the end coming there is something I want to say, suggest and quite frankly demand of all of you, because frankly it is worth doing.

The Community of this game is frankly the greatest one to exist online bar none, at our worst we were still respectful of each other for the most part, the examples of good and decency were the rule not the exception. I am not saying we are perfect but, we are still good.

We need to carry this to the other places we go, Even without the City, without the Community we are still the Heroes and Villains of Paragon, We should wear that badge and hold ourselves to the standard we have set here in these forums and this game, we should be the shining example in other games of how to act and spread it to other games.

We are from Paragon City, and though it is fading into the past we can still be Paragons, and to take a line from an upcoming movie of one of the Icons of our Genre

"You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They'll race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In
time, you will help them accomplish wonders." - Jal-El

I am not saying we can change geek culture or alter how other communities work, but it would be the best memorial I can think of for City of Heroes, and if our example were to inspire one other person to act in the same manner that would be worth us all doing it.

Originally Posted by Fire Man

To my fellow Scrappers,

I love you all!

Critically yours,
- bAss_ackwards

Originally Posted by AF_Again

No they didn't expect "The other side" to chime in and they probably honestly thought there could be no disagreement with their opinions.

Originally Posted by Another_Fan

Oh that is pretty easy.

There are a few people cough* Tim the Enchanter* cough * Anyone who identifies with the titan people* cough , who didn't like the conclusions this thread was drawing so they decided to do anything they could stop discussion of why the game died, and why the Titan efforts were a misguided pipe dream.

They couldn't counter the points being made so they trotted out the most inflamatory stuff they could find all the while calling other people Trolls.

Originally Posted by DarkBlaster_NA

Can someone please tell me how we got from giving up, To ponies, To religion, to more ponies, to more religion (or lack thereof?)

Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy

true.

But on the other side, some of those plan z people have been just as rude if not ruder in getting their message across. Some people merely mentioned that Plan Z may not work and they are labled all types of negative names and then it get twisted into "oh you lost hope dont try to convince me to give up hope." or "So you are saying all hope is useless." When half the time that is not what anyone is saying.

You want to hope that is fine, that is good. But just because some people is not as enthuse, doesnt mena they given up all hope or is saying all hope is lost. Some people have a different way of looking at the situation and it's gets tiring when those Plan Z/Titan people seem to jump on and label anyone that is not sharign their exact view or definition of hope as trolls,NCSoft employees, people who is saying hope is useless and etc. And with that attitude here, of course people are going to get rude after a while. It's easy, respect those that may have a different view and most people wont bother you about the hope but when those people come in and ridicule those that dotn have as much hope as them and speak in absolute like "Oh you are saying all hope is lost and hope is stupid" when most that they slap that label on said no such thing, then of course many will fire back.

Just as you dont want to be convinced that hope is lost, stop tryign to convince people to hope more to ridiculing them even if they just so happen to think hope is lost. If you nor the others of plan z/titan cant respect their view, why the hell are they expecting people to respect they view when they dont show a single shred of respect to those that is not on their level of hope and havea different view about things? It works both ways not "give all respect to Plan Z/Titan and hopefuls while they down, insult, ridicule everyoen that offers a different view.

We both know that at this point that there is no convincing the other side to switch over but expecting one side to stop firing back and just take what ever label insult ridicule that come their way from the plan z/titan/hopefuls then that probably wont happen.

We would like them to to stop activily insulting anyone who offers a different view than pure hope. And just because it's not pure hope doesnt mean that they think that all hope is lost. Stop with the insults fro mthat side and I'm sure things will die down and be more civil. Stop trying to convince people they need to hope to TonyV and his circles standards or else they are saying all hope is lost and then people probably will stop trying to convince your group.

It either will work both ways or no way. But it probably wont happen just one way that only benefits that side while they continue to act in a negative and insulting manner to the other.

Originally Posted by TrueGentleman

The eminently quotable Christopher Hitchens tried to explain the difference between the belief systems that ground religious faith and the rational (and empirical) perspective of atheism, which is, after all, only one facet of humanism:

Quote:
Faith, however, should be differentiated from hope. I still hope that somehow City of Heroes can be rescued from the MMO scrapheap, but I have no faith in NCSoft, based on the evidence of their past actions, to do the right thing by Paragon Studios and their customers.

Originally Posted by Another_Fan

Given how few people I saw participating in incarnates (there were dedicated groups who participated often but they were it. You saw the same faces advertising Itrials and participating in them over and over again.) it wouldn't surprise me if the number of paying subs was far far lower maybe as low as 10%

Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy

No that is not what I'm saying at all. Although I feel that people are telling me that I should have an emotional attachment and Im suppose to feel like them and since I dont feel like them, I dont care about the game, I'm an NCSoft employee, and etc. No one is trying to understand me while I tried to understand them. Hey, they resorted to insults so I stopped trying to understand them just as they are trying to tnot understand me. They drew the lines of, people that want to join the COHTitan and everyone else that is a heartless ncsoft employee. So how am I suppose to try to understand them if they dont have the courtesy to do the same?

Originally Posted by MajorPrankster

Nope.

I am telling you that choosing to make things up rather than face reality, the fact that this will all just end, there is no afterlife, etc. is the problem.

I am telling you that choosing to understand and accept the nature of reality is a wonderful thing.

I am telling you that if one cannot accept the nature of reality and because of it a person or group chooses to make things up to make themselves feel better because they cannot cope with reality, they are the problem.

I am telling you that the problem is implying anyone who can accept reality and strive to understand the universe for what it is might be less capable of having morals.

I am telling you that in the end there is nothing, which makes every moment precious.

You have implied those of us that value logic over emotion are robots that have to work harder to be moral and that offends me. That is what I am telling you.

Just because I hold logic and reason over emotion does not make me an unfeeling robot, incapable of love and grief. It simply means I value logic over emotion and that try to prevent my emotions from controlling my decisions.

To the point at hand, I grieve for the loss of CoH. I will not allow my emotions to lead me on some vendetta against the employees of a company who had nothing to do with the closure, nor will I allow my grief to allow me to lose sight of that fact it's just a game and that MMOs come and go.

Is that clear enough?

Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy

That the problem that you are assuming there. I'm not using it as a basis for everyone else logic.
I'm talking about my logic, but it seems that it is assumed that because they have somethign to grief over, everyoen have somethign to grief over. Maybe everyone that they know grief over the loss of houses, cars, money, books, games, etc. but I am not one of those people. Justas they cant quite understand how I can not grief over anything, is the same way I dont quite understand how people grief. Like I said, I figured since a person knows the end is coming eventually why is it so hard when it gets here? I might just be missing that part of the emotion that most people have and thus, without the emotion stand point, it just dont seem logical to me.

I lost cars, one didnt have 1,000 miles on it. Walked away with a relatively small injury, broken arm but the car was toast. Did I mourn it? no. I liked the car. I just went and got another car. Well actually I didnt even get the same exact car. Got another one. One tenent burnt down one of the houses, the one that brought in the most. We had insurace there was no worries and will rebuild. Lost a job once, got another. Husband lost his job, once, he got another. Many pets come and gone, one of hip cancer. Didnt even know dogs could get hip cancer and had to make the choice of putting it down. Next day, got another. And so on.


Guess people have level of mourning and different view of mourning. There might be a person that believes everything is worth mourning over. Mine is very very...just isnt there. I've seen some people have all types of problems at funerals, I've seen some people dont even shed a tear whiel even a few funerals, a person or two fall asleep. And then alot of people in between.

Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen

Unreasoned hope, yeah. Same reason I think religious people need to grow up. There's no sense "hoping" for something to happen when we all know it won't.

Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy

just certain humans.

And I dont think being emotionally devasted from a loss of a video game is in any part shape or fashion part of human nature.

<other stuff said here too>

Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen

It would make sense, actually. I had never heard of this Lackey chick before everyone said "omg! Mercedes Lackey wants CoH saved!" But now I'm aware of her existence. And I'm sure a lot of goodwill will be going towards her after CoH dies, and that may just translate to higher book sales. It's a good marketing scheme, if true.

Originally Posted by MrLiberty

As someone who has never sat down and watched an episode of 24 (not for any particular like or dislike of it) it amazes me how people could escape the better part of a decades worth of advertising across various media and still remain in the dark about its existence.

It'd sort of be like asking "What is this Star Wars people are going on about?" even if you've never sat down and watched it personally, between advertising, pop culture reference, and its saturation across various forms of media you have to at least grasp the concept of it.

Anyway : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285331/

Originally Posted by Dark_Respite

The one that never ceases to amaze me is the response I get from servers when I say "please" and "thank you". I sometimes wonder if my friends and I are the only ones who do that. No joke - they have stopped what they're doing and just stared at me, then blurted out, "I don't think I've ever had someone say 'please' to me before!"

Or, because John and Chris both go through copious amounts of club soda and iced tea, respectively, I usually warn the servers with, "Hey, just a heads-up, these two drink like fish. If things get really busy, you might want to bring two at a time so you don't have to do that Flight of the Bumblebee thing. Trust me, they won't mind." The servers almost always laugh and thank me for the warning, and it makes things a bit easier for them.

I figure there's enough a**hats in the world, so I try to offset it by making people smile.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy

Yeah but selling might be a good way to continue on, but according to them, they tried that and exhausted that option.

Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast

In my opinion, that would be WAY over what most people have guessed at the profit based off information gathered. WAY over; like more than double. The best cost analysis I seen figured approx 2 million profit in 2011 and would have been the same for 2012.

The player base is 1/3 what it was 3-4 years ago. CoH in 2012 has had approx 50-60k subscribers. Looking back over the sub numbers that is almost 1/4 the number we had at our peak. Just because I say CoH was sloowly dying..does not for one minute reflect my opinion about CoH; which was that it is the best MMO out there.

BTW on a side note: People who even think that NCSoft was offered 80 million for CoH are delusional. NO company is going to pay $80 million for CoH. It would take 40 years to even break even at the current profit rate. Heck even if CoH made 5 mill profit a year... that's still 16 years! Come on people....Common sense is your friend

Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast

Did people really think CoH was going to be around 20 years?